Over the last few days a lot has been spoken and tweeted about regarding the LGBT flag on display at White Hart Lane. Oly makes his debut on The Fighting Cock front page and gives his views on the situation.
Spurs are flagging
Spurs fans on Twitter are well accustomed to schisms amongst the faithful; will Stadium:MK serve Carlsberg at the necessary above room temperature? Has Levy really forgotten his pin number? Is Stambouli’s guitar playing up to scratch? While many discussions taking place across our timelines are often heated, the subject matters, despite the passion displayed, are benign in comparison to the latest rift.
![[IMG]](http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Nacer+Chadli+Tottenham+Hotspur+v+Southampton+827ipx55gr3l.jpg)
Unless you’ve been living in Soldado’s scoring boots, you’ll know I’m referring to The Flag and the SpursLGBT supporters group. The outrage/condemnation to the group and its treatment is, in my view, threefold: outright, bigoted homophobia; reverse engineered homophobia; reasoned disapproval. What strikes me in all three camps is one thing: none can provide an alternative to what they see as a problem.
People choose to challenge views and show solidarity in many ways, whether it be signing a petition, writing an opinion piece or standing side-by-side. There is no golden rule on how to change views or engender acceptance. People have been trying for millennia and will continue to do so. If the message is acceptance and love, then what’s the problem?
Everyone who goes to the Lane is there to enjoy the team, experience a togetherness and sing as one voice. Despite this, we all hear things on the terraces we disagree with and have no place anywhere. While the issues with racism at football has come on leaps and bounds, we are still some way from addressing homophobia in the stands.
[linequote]While the issues with racism at football has come on leaps and bounds, we are still some way from addressing homophobia in the stands[/linequote]
As a white, heterosexual male, I understand I’m in the demography least likely to be subject to discrimination in everyday life. I don’t, though, live in a cave; I only have to open the newspaper, visit the pub, or, sadly, go to a match to hear the language of primordial no-wits. Not that everyday discrimination is pardonable, but if I’m trying to enjoy myself (yes, watching Spurs is meant to be enjoyable, I’m assured) I think I’d find it all the more upsetting.
So why not stand together and show you’re proud and let the bigots know you’re there? F*** it, put a bloody massive flag up just in case you’ve not caught their attention. Show in numbers you’re there. Show them it’s your club as much as anyone’s. If it helps change views and makes you feel comfortable watching your beloved team, good for you.
It’s worth noting at this juncture, if you happen to be gay, you can still sit where you want.
Now to address the trio of naysayers. The aforementioned outright bigots are easily dealt with: grow up, you have no place being outside of the house without a guardian, note from mum or not. The reverse engineered homophobes are, in brief, the last bunch’s elder sibling; slightly more socially aware, though stupid enough to run their gums until someone calls them out. At this point they engineer an argument based on disapproving of the group’s methods, quickly scrambling for an exit so no one thinks any less of them.
[linequote]Show in numbers you’re there. Show them it’s your club as much as anyone’s[/linequote]
Finally, there are those who are able to articulate their disapproval without ridiculing or lampooning the group. I have no issue with this per se, but what I do notice is the distinct lack of cohesive alternatives being suggested. If you don’t like the means, fair enough, but if you’re a reasonable human being capable of holding a conversation, then I’d like to think you can see the merit in a group of people at least trying to make a difference. I’m not saying shut up, maybe just hold your tongue until you’ve a better idea.
I get a tonne of enjoyment from interacting with Spurs fans on Twitter. It’s pretty miserable seeing people tear strips off one another over this. As a Club (capital C, innit) we are great at standing up to bullies. Let’s get behind this great movement and show the rest of football how it’s done. After all, that’s what Spurs do best. COYS.
All views and opinions expressed in this article are the views and opinions of the writer and do not necessarily represent the views of The Fighting Cock. We offer a platform for fans to commit their views to text and voice their thoughts. Football is a passionate game and as long as the views stay within the parameters of what is acceptable, we encourage people to write, get involved and share their thoughts on the mighty Tottenham Hotspur.
20 Comments
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07/10/2014 @ 9:25 am
Brilliant article my freind.
HHXX
07/10/2014 @ 9:40 am
Well said. It’s a shame it needs saying.
07/10/2014 @ 10:39 am
An excellent article. I want my club to be known for its tolerance and unity, not its bigotry.
I do, however, sympathise with those who feel they have been prevented from waving their flags and banners whilst others appear to be encouraged. That said, homophobia seems to me to be the prejudice most accepted in the stands and therefore the campaign to eradicate it needs more support from the club than other areas of unpleasantness (although all should be tackled).
I believe, given how awful our away kits usually are anyway, that the club should show they are serious about the issue by having a rainbow 2nd/3rd kit and the FA should demonstrate their desire to remove homophobia from the terraces by sanctioning against teams where fans are using homophobic language and taunts in the same way they do when that language is racist. Homophobia and racism are identically evil.
07/10/2014 @ 10:40 am
I have no problem with flag or LGBT just feel sorry for member who was yolks to remove his Spurs Cypriot Supporters flag that had been there for several years, were there no empty spaces in the ground to put the flag
07/10/2014 @ 10:44 am
sorry that was made to remove his flag
07/10/2014 @ 10:55 am
My only objection to the group is that if you join it you get ticket priority, which seems a bit imbalanced. But, aside from that, I certainly agree with this article. As a Jew who is in the minority of fans who doesn’t agree with the use of “Yid” I have thought a lot in recent years about what it truly means to show solidarity. I have come to the conclusion that the majority of fans really don’t give a shit about solidarity or supporting your fellow fan and this is all to evident in the reaction to both the Yid debate and this group. The reaction to this group perfectly illustrates why the claims of fans to want to stick up for the underdog and show solidarity is really, for most of them, a load of rubbish. In terms of the Yid debate, it’s just and excuse to go on saying it, and in terms of this the objection really boils down to an excuse to get boozed up in the Billy Nick before a game and laughed and joke about gay people, at the expensive of the dignity of gay fans.
The ugly truth is that too many fans are of the “I’m alright Jack and fuck the other lot” mentality and that as long as they have an excuse lined up they are free to insult and degrade whoever they like. It’s insensitivity at it’s most insidious and when the issue finally get’s raised we hear garbage like “well, I don’t advertise my hetrosexuality so why to they have to separate themselves from us as being gay fans? Aren’t we all as one?”. Why? Well, because they have to listen to their minority being degraded on the terraces and in the matchday pubs at every single fixture they go to, that’s why. So that excuse doesn’t fly until people truly do treat gay fans with the equality they deserve. Until that is accomplished then damn bloody right they stand up against bigotry, defend themselves and stand proud. I wholeheartedly support their fight and therefore their flag.
08/10/2014 @ 12:35 pm
Brilliant.
07/10/2014 @ 11:11 am
Put this issue on it’s head: if gay fans were told they HAD to occupy a certain demarcated section reserved for them there would be outrage, as it would amount to apartheid. I simply can’t see why anyone would want to segregate themselves willingly. Surely liberation and equality means we are all one in our humanity, not different. I certainly would never want to be labelled by my sexuality or any other single facet of my personality as I am far more than that. Why discriminate against yourself? It makes no clear sense.
07/10/2014 @ 11:39 am
You do understand that there’s a difference between choosing to associate with people with whom you have a commonality and being forced to, right?
07/10/2014 @ 11:12 am
Lets nail one lie…..members of the LGBT group do NOT get ticket priority! I have no objection to their flag flying but it will be fascinating to see how tolerant Spurs fans in general will be when Brighton visit!
07/10/2014 @ 12:07 pm
Fuck yeah.
If it’s their flag and they are one of us, it’s our flag too.
07/10/2014 @ 12:18 pm
Brilliant article mate.
07/10/2014 @ 12:19 pm
An outstanding & very eloquent piece Oly. Agree with every word. However, I’m not convinced you are actually addressing or identifying the very specific “issue” some seem to have. I’ve not seen outright condemnation, disapproval or abuse of the LGBT group or its aims – far from it. I read almost universal approval & support, indeed pride in what they are seeking to do. But, my reading of the “issue” is one of (a lack of) uniformity of policy, equitable treatment & clear & obvious rules that should apply to all. Whether perceived or real, the impression of “special” treatment, from those that seek “equality” is both paradoxical & incompatible. I think it’s wholly possible to endorse, support & celebrate all that LGBT Spurs stand for, whilst also probing & challenging any potential conflict born of different rules for different groups. I guess that puts me in your “third” group. And my solution is always – the same rules & regulations should apply to all. Easy.
07/10/2014 @ 1:03 pm
The biggest issue here is that all other flags with anything approaching a political agenda aren’t allowed. so why is this the only one?
07/10/2014 @ 1:12 pm
Firstley I think to call any one who has a problem with the LBGT flag a bigot or homoerphobic is very naive and unfair.
Personally I do have a problem with the LBGT flag being in the stadium and I do also have a problem with any flags that are in the ground that divide us (Tottenham Supporters). The main two reasons for this are, firstly we are all here to support Tottenham that is why we go down to White Hart Lane. Supporters flags that are based around nationality, sexual preference, looks, religion etc. will only harm us from within. When we come to White Hart Lane we are ONE. We are Tottenham supporters. I think that supporters clubs are done outside of the ground and a good way for like minded people to gather on occasions. This then brings me on to my second reason for not wanting the flag in the stadium which is that i do not want Tottenham Supporters divided in White Hart Lane. If we all had separate parts of the grounds for different types of supporters the ground would be horrible and not an intergrated place. We should sit or stand next to each other for the sole purpose of cheering our team on.
COYS
07/10/2014 @ 1:13 pm
*LGBT* fucking autocorrect!
07/10/2014 @ 1:21 pm
I think it’s fundamental to remember what the rainbow flag is and represents. The flag is not flown to simply say “we’re here,” traditionally its flown outside of establishments around the world to announce to other homosexuals — people who often feel a CONSTANT threat of violence, discrimination, or abuse — that they are welcome here. The flag is flown to say you are safe here. Safe to relax, to enjoy, to be you without fear. To equate that to literally any other flag in the world is to miss the point.
I, for one, was filled with pride (no pun intended) when I saw the flag flying. “That’s my club,” I thought. The absolute next thing I thought was, “would West Ham ever do that? Chelsea? City?”
07/10/2014 @ 6:17 pm
I think it’s very difficult to have a decent discussion on Twitter about subject matters such as this one. Opinions are often difficult to articulate properly with 140 characters and conversations are sometimes hard to follow once lots of people weigh in with their points.
So I think that, although there are definitely still people who are just bigoted homophobes who are opposed to the flag and group outright, some of the people who disagree with it are being misinterpreted somewhat.
I am not bothered whatsoever with what LGBT are trying to achieve, in fact I think it’s superb that the homosexual community amongst the Spurs fans are standing up and showing that they’re here and they’re proud. Considering how (and it’s embarrassing to say) behind football is in accepting homosexuality, putting up the flag is great, it’s right there in WHL for all to see and know that as Spurs fans we are all under the same umbrella no matter what our sexual preferences.
What concerns me is that the bigoted idiots who see the flag and the group and get wound up by it will just continue to voice their homophobic vitriol. The whole “Oh, they get priority tickets because they’re gay?!” thing clearly shows that the methods of LGBT might not work . It’s stupid, I know, but so are homophobic people. All the other Supporters Groups who get priority tickets won’t concern the idiots because they’re things like “RAF Spurs” and there isn’t a history of RAF hatred in society or football. The LGBT group is unfortunately a completely different kettle of fish because of the history of homophobia.
I’ve said on Twitter that grouping black fans together in a show against racism wouldn’t work and the same applies for homophobia. That is not because I disagree with that method, it’s because I think the racists/homophobes will find a way to show their hatred against it.
Like Oly says in the article, if you’re against these methods, hold your tongue unless you have any other better ideas. My idea would be to make that flag bigger. Get the players wearing t shirts like the Kick it Out campaign. A group and a little flag, although great isn’t a big enough statement. I’m fucking sick of hearing racism and homophobia in society and at the football. Society is a huge mixing pot of cultures and it’s time football fucking caught up.
The flag and the supporters group is a start, but to really get the homophobes to shut the fuck up it needs to be stepped up a notch. I am however proud that Spurs are doing their bit to finally stamp out the hatred.
07/10/2014 @ 10:15 pm
If your Spurs your Spurs end of. I remember the days when being called b**** bastard rolled off the tongue of opposition fans, police etc etc. I remember open Nazi salutes as Police stood and probably agreed with them. Things have changed, mostly for the better, but we have lost that fans bond, mainly because of extortionate ticket prices, all seater stadiums and the corporate emphasis on making money. For me all should be welcome at Spurs. In the 70’s if you were ethnic you supported Spurs, one of the very few grounds that stopped the NF Bulldog paper being openly sold. So I welcome everyone. Hell, Gay Spurs fans have every right to be as miserable as the rest of us!!! COYS
09/10/2014 @ 8:44 am
I couldn’t care less about any spurs fans who are gay but the flag is not football so it should be banned. Arrogant article belittling in advance anybody who disagrees with it.