• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Transfers Summer 2016 Transfer Window Thread

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

NorseYid said:
This is a marvelous season, yes.

So let's not improve on that, shall we.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Improve on it with players able to do the same things better. Not by trying to invent something new by start to sign different types of player.

You refered to the Soton match partly to me. But I've already said and will say again I guess, that there's a world of difference to being Mane for a team like Soton and us. He gets 4-5 times as many opportunities to counter than he would with us. And that's where he's most effective, by some way.
 
NorseYid said:
This is a marvelous season, yes.

So let's not improve on that, shall we.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Can you name me one team this season who has left a ton of space for us to exploit? We have specifically designed a team that doesn't rely on pace, because we want teams to adapt to us, not the other way around. Adapting for games is small club mentality. We have a team who on there day are unbeatable, and you want to have more than 2 pacy players as another option? We currently have 2, and those two are more than enough for our system which doesn't actually rely on a ton of pace.

The problem you seem to be forgetting is that we have sold most of our pacy players in favour of skillful ones.
 
Juicy Sushi said:
I really don't find that to be the case at all. We've made defense-stretching runs a major feature this year, with the players we have.

It's hard to do that when the other team's centrebacks are on the 6 yard box.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We have thanks to Kanes developed pace, and that's mostly it.

We still lack players who can go either way out wide. And more importantly who are comfortable a recieving the ball in space rather than wait to it played to feet.

Son was such a player in Germany, but for us he seems to play very similarly to Eriksen and Lamela, often going back a bit too far to get the ball.
 
Thin Lilywhite Duke said:
The Lallana story is interesting. I'd dismiss it, but then again it does seem rather leftfield - so leftfield in fact that it could be true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I thought he was more of a Central Attacking Midfielder...
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/21683/Show/Adam-Lallana
oh...

Still, says he supported Everton as a kid so no doubt the Liverpool fans will be FUMING when they find out! (Exactly!!)

...plus, dare I say it there's something of the Theo Walcott about him... partly in looks, injury record and questionable playing/scoring ability!!!
 
TheJockmur said:
Can you name me one team this season who has left a ton of space for us to exploit? We have specifically designed a team that doesn't rely on pace, because we want teams to adapt to us, not the other way around. Adapting for games is small club mentality. We have a team who on there day are unbeatable, and you want to have more than 2 pacy players as another option? We currently have 2, and those two are more than enough for our system which doesn't actually rely on a ton of pace.

The problem you seem to be forgetting is that we have sold most of our pacy players in favour of skillful ones.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sure.

Let's take 3 of the games where we took 2 points of 9 possible from leading positions: Chelsea away pressing for winner, Newcastle at home pressing us for a winner and Woolwich at home pushing us for an equaliser. None of those teams camped in front of goal. All of those teams rammed into us for a goal or two. All of those where suspect to runs from the Mané's of this world.

Btw this whole debate is hillarious. You are saying we never have space, another poster is saying we often make defence stretching runs into space. Both used as arguments for NOT wanting to employ pacy attacking players.

BTW I can understand than fans are (overly) protective about present players, wanting to nurture and shield them from criticism. After all, this is the most sympathetic, home-grown and just plainly "connected" Spurs team in my lifetime.
But all teams need to constantly evolve, and that will happen by sheading the weakest and developing the strongest. AND by signing new, stronger players. And those new players should include a.o. a pacy winger IMO.
So basically you are disagreeing not as much with my argument about a certain player type (pace or not) but rather against a given premise: That sympathetic spurs players can and will be weeded out this summer. A premise, which unfortunately happens to be quite unavoidable.
 
NorseYid said:
We have thanks to Kanes developed pace, and that's mostly it.

We still lack players who can go either way out wide. And more importantly who are comfortable a recieving the ball in space rather than wait to it played to feet.

Son was such a player in Germany, but for us he seems to play very similarly to Eriksen and Lamela, often going back a bit too far to get the ball.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Our fullbacks provide the width in our system. Our forwards use movement to create space. They all have run behind defences when space allows, that's been a prominent thing for everyone this year. But when you're the dominant team, you're going to be frequently playing against teams who park the bus. We don't get the luxury of continuously large volumes of space that Leicester had, because we take the initiative in attack.

You're complaining about a problem we factually don't have, because it's not a situation we frequently encounter.
 
NorseYid said:
Sure.

Let's take 3 of the games where we took 2 points of 9 possible from leading positions: Chelsea away pressing for winner, Newcastle at home pressing us for a winner and Woolwich at home pushing us for an equaliser. None of those teams camped in front of goal. All of those teams rammed into us for a goal or two. All of those where suspect to runs from the Mané's of this world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They were also suspect to runs from us. It's not related to the point you're trying to make. You claim we need more pace because that's somehow something we lack which is costing us goals. Which we've scored more of than any other team but one this year in the League. Just which situations have we been not scoring in due to a lack of pace?

Btw this whole debate is hillarious. You are saying we never have space, another poster is saying we often make defence stretching runs into space. Both used as arguments for NOT wanting to employ pacy attacking players.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We have pacey attacking players. Your claim is that we need more because the current players aren't doing it. I am asking in which situations have we needed them? We've scored plenty of goals on the counter this year when we have space, and we've scored plenty in slower build-up play. Your first argument was that a pacey winger would have let us win against Soton. You seem to have abandoned that argument when it was pointed out they parked the bus and there wasn't space to run in to. Now the argument is hilarious because you claim we need "pace" to "get behind".

When teams come out and give us space to work with, we haven't had problems getting in behind. When teams park the bus, we haven't been able to do that, as there's no space to work with. Danny Rose actually mentioned this as a problem the team faces, and pointed out that there's no real solution other than magically changing the size of the pitch.

BTW I can understand than fans are (overly) protective about present players, wanting to nurture and shield them from criticism. After all, this is the most sympathetic, home-grown and just plainly "connected" Spurs team in my lifetime.
But all teams need to constantly evolve, and that will happen by sheading the weakest and developing the strongest. AND by signing new, stronger players. And those new players should include a.o. a pacy winger IMO.
So basically you are disagreeing not as much with my argument about a certain player type (pace or not) but rather against a given premise: That sympathetic spurs players can and will be weeded out this summer. A premise, which unfortunately happens to be quite unavoidable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your premise is that a pacey winger would suddenly change our offensive problems, but fail to really give an example of when we actually needed someone pacier than we currently have.

Not seeing your point.
 
NorseYid said:
Sure.

Let's take 3 of the games where we took 2 points of 9 possible from leading positions: Chelsea away pressing for winner, Newcastle at home pressing us for a winner and Woolwich at home pushing us for an equaliser. None of those teams camped in front of goal. All of those teams rammed into us for a goal or two. All of those where suspect to runs from the Mané's of this world.

Btw this whole debate is hillarious. You are saying we never have space, another poster is saying we often make defence stretching runs into space. Both used as arguments for NOT wanting to employ pacy attacking players.

BTW I can understand than fans are (overly) protective about present players, wanting to nurture and shield them from criticism. After all, this is the most sympathetic, home-grown and just plainly "connected" Spurs team in my lifetime.
But all teams need to constantly evolve, and that will happen by sheading the weakest and developing the strongest. AND by signing new, stronger players. And those new players should include a.o. a pacy winger IMO.
So basically you are disagreeing not as much with my argument about a certain player type (pace or not) but rather against a given premise: That sympathetic spurs players can and will be weeded out this summer. A premise, which unfortunately happens to be quite unavoidable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We already have 2 pacy wingers, before that we had 4 with Townsend and Lennon, doesn't Poch getting rid of them suggest something to you? We also had a team with one of the best pacy players in the world and we still never managed a top 3 finish with him in the side. Pace isn't everything and it isn't even something we are lacking.
 
tbonepremier said:
Some see "proven Premier League player" as a sign of quality for any player surviving in the league. For me, Long is an example of a proven Premier League player that has over time proven to be quite mediocre; not a sign of quality.

The kind of player a second placed team trying to improve should avoid looking at.

N'Jie were more of an unknown. That means there's a higher risk of failure. But there's also a higher risk of success.

I didn't know enough to say wether I'd want him or not last year, but I'd definately want an unknown over a player that I'd be fairly certain wasn't good enough, like Long.

Unknown: Might be top, might be good, might be mediocre, might be shit.

Proven mediocre: Might be mediocre, might be not good enough.

I'd always go for the unknown in that situation, and especially if he was black box or scouted by Poch's boys.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
the magnificent 7 shows the risks involved in unproven premiership players.
 
NorseYid said:
I can't possibly disagree enough with that, and I doubt you will find many modern managers, football or elsewhere, who will agree that we should ever stop inventing new innovative sollutions to challenges.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, but name one manager who's had succes, and then radically changed their tactics/signings and still had success? Of course we need to innovate, and I'm sure Poch will. But innovation in football as it is in business is NOT making something different from the status quo in the extreme, but subtle changes. Hence why going from inverted wingers to pacy ones, because you see a problem, you cannot quantify or give examples of, just doesn't fly imho.

Otherwise what Juicy said.
 
TheJockmur said:
We are just about to finish 2nd with the flawed design that you are talking about. I'm sure if we make sure Poch listens to you we will finish much higher next year though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
people are so touche & defensive.
He is just thinking of ways we could improve.

From people's reactions, u would have thought he said we are shit & need more pace!
 
NorseYid said:
I can't possibly disagree enough with that, and I doubt you will find many modern managers, football or elsewhere, who will agree that we should ever stop inventing new innovative sollutions to challenges.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
madness to have just 1 way of playing.
Sometimes having no plan b has hindered us this season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top