Foyth played "quite a few" games as rb?
In his time with us he played:
34 games as Cb
4 games as Rb
Quit making it up as you go along please.
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In his time with us he played:
34 games as Cb
4 games as Rb
Quit making it up as you go along please.
Surprised it's this low but thanks for sharing and absolutely not going to bother to check if correct or not as it does nothing to change the fact that he's a young trying to break into a position that doesn't often see a player nail it down in a top league until he approaches the age of 25 or so (give or take).
I'll ask the question again as you conveniently sidestepped it; What games (other than Liverpool debut) was Tanganga not outplayed in?
Quite simple really.
My point is that AGE does not make a difference. EXPERIENCE does. Those players have managed to hold down their places in top teams due to gathered experiences, not because magic fairy Tinkerbell flew to them in their sleep during the night they turned 25.
I'll be 29 in the weekend. Never had serious football training in my life.
Based on age, I should be prime candidate for EPL CB position shouldn't I ?
And regarding being foreign/homegrown - this is something that seriously differentiates Tanganga and Foyth (this comparison you brought in yourself) - EVEN IF Foyth is marginally better, but it comes down to making decision who to take a chance on and who to move on, then it would be way more benefitial to chose Tanganga and use foreign player squad spot on someone else.
He wasnt outplayed against City, he wasnt outplayed against Burnley and he wasnt outplayed against Wolves.
I haven't argued either way the merits of being homegrown or not, of course, it's a massive consideration but I'm talking about the age of the player and specifically the age of CB's that nail a place in a top league..........Quite simple really.
My point is that AGE does not make a difference. EXPERIENCE does. Those players have managed to hold down their places in top teams due to gathered experiences, not because magic fairy Tinkerbell flew to them in their sleep during the night they turned 25.
I'll be 29 in the weekend. Never had serious football training in my life.
Based on age, I should be prime candidate for EPL CB position shouldn't I ?
And regarding being foreign/homegrown - this is something that seriously differentiates Tanganga and Foyth (this comparison you brought in yourself) - EVEN IF Foyth is marginally better, but it comes down to making decision who to take a chance on and who to move on, then it would be way more benefitial to chose Tanganga and use foreign player squad spot on someone else.
Which brings us onto this:
"My point is that AGE does not make a difference. EXPERIENCE does. Those players have managed to hold down their places in top teams due to gathered experiences, not because magic fairy Tinkerbell flew to them in their sleep during the night they turned 25".
"I'll be 29 in the weekend. Never had serious football training in my life.
Based on age, I should be prime candidate for EPL CB position shouldn't I "?
I mean wow!
The relevance is in a "top league" it's very, very rare young CB's hold down this position until they are in or around 25. Go ask VVD, Toby, Dier, Maguire, Chambers, Holding.
Possible exceptions to this (there are always some) would be:
De light - Arguably one of the best CB's in World Football. Whilst holding his place this season it's been one where he's been heavily criticized for his performances. I this down to his age, moving to a new Club, new Top League? Yes, probably all three. I expect him to be nailing his spot for Juve next year and becoming more settles and his performances improving as a result.
Gomez - Terrific talent, but has been the player called out this season for poor performances, lost his place to Matip a couple of times too. But clearly he's their future and I expect him to nail down a CB spot unless they feel he still has some way to go before this happens and they buy another CB older than him who he can compete with, there is loads of paper talk that is linking them to many CB's with heavy speculation on Diego Carlos a 27yr old.
Nathan Ake - Good CB an ever stay in one of the most porous defences in the league, certainly benefited at being at Bournemouth (the smallest club in the PL) it has to be said. He's now 25. Clearly nailed the CB position as his.
Christensen - I think he's superb but has struggled this season (Chavs glaring problem area is their defence). I think him and Zouma will be there preferred choices going forward. Zouma is also a potential for this exception list, he's 25 now and held down spots in two PL clubs on loan. Like Ake clearly benefitted from getting loans at poor sides (Everton and Stoke), I think Ake's performances were far better on balance than Zouma's.
But go through the entire list of PL clubs and their CB's positions are largely filled by mature players, with young players loaned out to shit clubs or not top leagues. CB's rarely nail down their spot until around (give or take) the age of 25.
Now you are totally missing my point once more.
It could be very well that it is rare to player under 25 to be consistent starter in EPL.
But my point is that the reason behind is that younger players have not gathered enough experience not because anything else. And yet you just go around and around and around repeating age.
IT IS NOT AGE IT IS EXPERIENCE THAT MATTERS. As things stand now, Foyth has almost 0 actual experience playing adult competitive football in any level of the game.
You make it seem like it would be perfectly normal to just pay wages for Foyth for 0 minutes per season and BAM when age turns to 25, he is ready over night to play in EPL and nail down the starting XI position. Clearly not the case.
"We" were completely outplayed by City until the sending off. Harsh to single out a player but he was unable (as the entire team were) to stop crosses and shots reigning down on us in that game. I recall him being very static when Lloris saved their pen and Sterling beat him to the rebound which on another day could easily have been given a second pen, had he reacted faster there wouldn't have been this opportunity. He was at the heart of a keystone cops moment running into Llrois and just jogged back letting De Bruyne run free whilst Aguero hit the post. The entire team was dominated and this includes him up to the sending off, even after that they were still probably the better side. But he as well of most of our players were dominated.
Burnley - a true low point of the season (one of many). But in the first half they targeted him and Sanchez on the right and got behind us numerous times, he was totally outplayed in the first half. Much, much better in the 2nd and possibly one of our better players in what was one of our (many) contenders for worst performance of the season. The first half I put squarely on the shoulders of Mourinho before I call out any player but none the less it is what it is when he was nothing other than outplayed in that first half.
Wolves - Agree that he's wasn't "outplayed" but he was involved in all three of their goals. The first an error, all on him. The second lost a tackle with Traorre which led him to assisting their 2nd. The third goal he was turned inside out and sat down on the ground by Jiminez as he scored their third (a whole list of our players standing off them led to this goal).
I love this kid, good with the ball at his feet, strong and always competing and has a good turn of pace. I'm not knocking him at all, but he's young and makes errors just as all young players do, just as Foyth has. Nothing will change my mind that Foyth performances have been overall better than those of Tanganga. Tanganga has experienced the biggest high of the two though, his performance against Liverpool (first 5 mins aside) was better than any single performance of Foyth.
This is NOT the fucking point I've been arguing though!!
What are you arguing then ?
You made it sound like he would be on normal trajectory and just "on his way" to become someone who could become nailed down starter for us but not before 25.
And I am saying that he is extremely unexperienced and already now it is hard to see how he could bridge that gap compared to potential peers to become dependable defender for club on Spurs level .
You are arguing though.What are you arguing then ?
You made it sound like he would be on normal trajectory and just "on his way" to become someone who could become nailed down starter for us but not before 25.
And I am saying that he is extremely unexperienced and already now it is hard to see how he could bridge that gap compared to potential peers to become dependable defender for club on Spurs level .
The ONLY point that I've been consistently stating is that most CB's in "Top Tier" leagues don't get to nail down that position until they are 25'ish. Both Foyth and Tanganaga are a long, long way from probably nailing down a CB spot. They might be one of the few that do manage it, but it's unlikely. But when they do play and make mistakes it's not because they are shit, it's because they are "young" and if you like to use the word "inexperienced" (the two of those descriptions go hand in glove for me and haven't made any such claim to state anything else).
I've no idea how Jose will approach the beginning of the season, his recent record (last season and especially post lock-down) shows that he doesn't rotate or use his subs that often but he surely has to use his squad at the beginning of the season with 3 games a week from the get go!?! This surely presents an opportunity for many fringe and young players if he chooses to.
Will loans be secured? I don't know. Will either be selected but played out of position? Probably. Does Jose like Foyth? I've no idea. Will Foyth push for a move if he's not getting mins? Probably. WIll both Tanganga and Foyth get to secure more mins at CB in a League not in the top 4 leagues? A high probability, yes.
Are they both talented footballers? Yes.
Okaaaay, we are like 95% in the same page
I was just pointing out that here and there you were bending truth to show Foyth in better light.
And added on that to me it is quesionable, should we waste one foreign player place on someone whose chances to succseed are quite low.
that wolves game
Our first goal conceded was due to Dier failed to clear that cross resulted in that error made by Tanganga. He was totally missing the clearance!
The second goal again showed that He was easily exposed by speedy opponents and he was too slow to react and we could see him try tackling the opponent which would be easily costing us penalty.
I am still not convinced Dier would be our third choice CB next season!
I forgot how bad the defending in that game was. If you took the defence out, it wasn't a bad performance against a team very much in form and full of confidence.
The only difference IMO between Diers mistakes and Foyths is that Dier really should be getting better but he's getting worse. Foyth is young enough that he still might make it or improve.
The only difference IMO between Diers mistakes and Foyths is that Dier really should be getting better but he's getting worse. Foyth is young enough that he still might make it or improve.
The whole "homegrown" element is an impossible web to unlock IMO. It is highly dependant on who the manager sees fit to sell and bring in, whether we can sell and therefore buy, so many moving pieces. It's important and real but a rabbit hole if we supporters try to 2nd guess what/who our targets are and what the fuck is going on in the market today during COVID, far too many if's/buts/maybes. So prefer to stick to is a player good or not assessments.Okaaaay, we are like 95% in the same page
I was just pointing out that here and there you were bending truth to show Foyth in better light.
And added on that to me it is quesionable, should we waste one foreign player place on someone whose chances to succseed are quite low.
I think Foyth is a baller a really talented footballer, as I also think that of Tanganga. I don't put Sanchez into the "baller" category, which isn't a prerequisite for a CB. All of them have different strengths and weaknesses, which I also happen to see as the makings of a good partnership (Vertonghen and Toby covered there strengths and weaknesses well, Toby better in the air and 1v1 than Jan but Jan better on the ball and more press-resistant as a consequence, both good at reading the game perhaps Jan marginally better and Jan a better LB than Toby was at RB). Foyth better than Tanganga with the ball, Tanganga with much more pace and body strength (probably stamina too as he's been competitive throughout the duration of a game, little evidence to suggest he's faded). I can't recall how good Foyth is in the air, I remember him winning his duals against a very physical Andy Caroll at Wembley in the Kangeroo Cup), I've not noticed Tanganga in the air, neither winning headers or getting beat so I need to focus on him more here.
Sanchez "should" be establishing himself now, the new season is a massive one for him. The only part of his game I don't like is his passing, is he good in the air? Like Tanganaga I don't know, I guess he's passable as nothing stands out in my memory that suggests this is a massive weakness but equally can't claim it's a strength. He's really physical and isn't intimidated by the oppo, tracks runs well. Back to his passing, think he's more than OK for short passes but quite poor at long ball.
With Dier now chucking his hat into the CB spot then it's a fascinating season to see what unfolds. One of the few things I liked from Jose last season was benching Toby for a few games and feel he got the reaction from him that he wanted. Toby has to be on it this season too I feel to maintain his spot. But with all of this, I can see our regular CB's as Toby, Dier, Sanchez. Genuine rotation of all three and I don't think it would be a surprise to anyone. If Jose still plays some games with 3ATB then expect Davies to be used as that CB (not a fan of how Jose deploys 3ATB, we look so predictable and often having 2 or 3 back marking just one player).
Tanganga has the upper hand on Foyth for mins I think as he's "Jose's man" (As previously stated I think Foyth prior performances have been better than Tanganga's all be it without the MOTM performance like Tanganaga had vs Liverpool) but without knowing what's going on at FB, BOTH SIDES, you can see that mins for either Foyth or Tanganga might be here rather than at CB. I hope Cerkin also gets a chance at LB, really decent prospect.
It’s both age and experience. The male brain isn’t fully developed until age 25. Men under the age of 25 are more prone to risk-taking and are less consequential in their decision-making. This is accepted scientifically.
Dier has looked more on his toes than Toby last year. I thought Toby responded well after being benched.
Almost every goal can be traced back to more than one culprit, it's a team sport after all (we started to concede more shots on our goal once we dropped our high press and lost our midfield is just an example of this) but that first goal for Wolves was an error of Tanganga's. Dread to think what would have been said had that of been Aurier getting his feet wrong and miss hitting what should be bread and butter clearance for a defender.
Anyone fancy a wager?
Foyth to start RB against Everton?
Foyth to start RB against Everton?
If that happened it would be by mismanagement and not design.
Tanganga is my bet right now