Dele

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There is definitely a problem with the quality of the players alongside PEH but that shouldnt be an excuse to screw over the entire formation and make the overall team worse

He doesn’t need to play deeper he is playing right where he should now.

We are currently screwing over our formation and making the team worse by playing Sissoko and especially in the role he currently is playing.
 
Yes mate i appreciate it's more than just putting your best players in the team, and i think it's pretty clear from my postings that isn't what I'm doing here, we just disagree on how it'd play out in reality - pretty sure you were telling me last week that Ndombele couldn’t play CM prior to his MoM there v Sheffield for all those reasons you put forward in your second paragraph, so perhaps you aren't as clued up as you think? The team seemed pretty well balanced to me
Nope. Never said he couldnt play CM (when he is a CM), what I have consistently said is that he could not play the CM role in a double pivot (and to be clear the context is the >80% games we would use such a formation). I have repeatedly stated that his best role in the current setup under Mourinho is as the #8.5, an attacking CM.

Playing CM in a 3-4-3 is a totally different matter, such that even PEH got forward more than he does in his regular role.
 
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He doesn’t need to play deeper he is playing right where he should now.

We are currently screwing over our formation and making the team worse by playing Sissoko and especially in the role he currently is playing.
Where Ndombele plays currently is the most advanced midfield role. There is no other role ahead of him that you want to fit GLC into. So idea accept you want to move Ndombele deeper or that there is no starting position for GLC in the current setup.

We are not screwing over our formation and making the team worse by playing sissoko, simply cos there are better players that we could get for same role. If that were true, then we can say we are screwing the team over by playing any player that we could upgrade on in a position, which would probably be the entire team except kane.
 
Nope. Never said he couldnt play CM (when he is a CM), what I have consistently said is that he could not play the CM role in a double pivot (and to be clear the context is the >80% games we would use such a formation). I have repeatedly stated that his best role in the current setup under Mourinho is as the #8.5, an attacking CM.

Playing CM in a 3-4-3 is a totally different matter, such that even PEH got forward more than he does in his regular role.


Hmm must have been someone else then.
Why don't you think he can play the double pivot alongside Hojbjerg?
 
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Where Ndombele plays currently is the most advanced midfield role. There is no other role ahead of him that you want to fit GLC into. So idea accept you want to move Ndombele deeper or that there is no starting position for GLC in the current setup.

We are not screwing over our formation and making the team worse by playing sissoko, simply cos there are better players that we could get for same role. If that were true, then we can say we are screwing the team over by playing any player that we could upgrade on in a position, which would probably be the entire team except kane.

The discussion started with the post that Ndombele was best in a 10 role. We don’t use that in our formation so again my point is still the same that no that is not his best role. The closest we come is how Kane plays at times.

So to make it more relevant if we did incorporate that role into our formation than the best player for that would be to have GLC in that role with Ndombele behind him.

Having a midfielder playing a role where they are only a babysitter for our RB definitely hurts us. It’s why no other team does it. Even if you put a better player in that role using a MFer in such a limited and stupid role hurts us.
 
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Dele is not exceptional enough to warrant building a team around him and he should instead round out and diversify his skill set to be more adaptable and relevant in different formations.
Like the post. But if you're saying he needs to round out and diversify his skill set to adapt into formations not tailored specifically to featuring him...then don't you have to give him the chance to do that?

Saying Dele isn't a #10, so he can't play as a #10, and if he wants to play he needs to learn how to play other roles like a #10...doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

Dele needs to kick on and fight for a place in the team somewhere and get off Instagram, thats all I know.
 
Cos it's a more defensive role with a deeper playmaking role. Suited to players like Xabi Alonso.

And presumably you think he can't play a deep playmaker role?

Strange, i would say he's suited quite well to that. Certainly more so than Winks or Hojberg depending on who partners Sissoko.

What did you see as the player roles when we had Dembele + Wanyama at the base of Midfield?
 
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The discussion started with the post that Ndombele was best in a 10 role. We don’t use that in our formation so again my point is still the same that no that is not his best role. The closest we come is how Kane plays at times.

So to make it more relevant if we did incorporate that role into our formation than the best player for that would be to have GLC in that role with Ndombele behind him.

Having a midfielder playing a role where they are only a babysitter for our RB definitely hurts us. It’s why no other team does it. Even if you put a better player in that role using a MFer in such a limited and stupid role hurts us.
Ndombele plays as the most advanced midfielder in our formation, calling it #8.5 or #10 is semantics. The deeper roles are played by PEH and Sissoko/Winks.

Playing GLC upfront will push Ndombele backwards. You can't play a #10 and keep Ndombele in his current role, while having your LB and RB push up. Doing that against any decent team is asking to be shafted.

To play GLC and Ndombele together will require a totally different formation and tactics, for which you might as well hire a different manager.

Sissoko does not just babysit the RB, but it is part of the job in his role. Who ever plays that role, even if its Ndombele or Kane, will have the same responsibilities. The position dictates the responsibilities, not the player.

Until there is better player for the role, the job will belong to Sissoko/Winks, as they are the best options we have fore the role in the squad
 
Ndombele plays as the most advanced midfielder in our formation, calling it #8.5 or #10 is semantics. The deeper roles are played by PEH and Sissoko/Winks.

Playing GLC upfront will push Ndombele backwards. You can't play a #10 and keep Ndombele in his current role, while having your LB and RB push up. Doing that against any decent team is asking to be shafted.

To play GLC and Ndombele together will require a totally different formation and tactics, for which you might as well hire a different manager.

Sissoko does not just babysit the RB, but it is part of the job in his role. Who ever plays that role, even if its Ndombele or Kane, will have the same responsibilities. The position dictates the responsibilities, not the player.

Until there is better player for the role, the job will belong to Sissoko/Winks, as they are the best options we have fore the role in the squad

I would set them up in a midfield 3. I would have Lo Celso tend to be further forward than Ndombele and PEH but because of their skill set either Ndombele or GLC could move back or forward to cover for the other.

I am more than fine getting a new manager that brings in better tactics and formations to help us win.

Plenty of teams play with the FBs going forward and a midfielder playing up without getting shafted. We currently play with 10 men against 11 with the role that Sissoko/Winks "play" for us.

Yes the position is ridiculous I agree.

The better player is GLC. I would also prefer playing Bergwijn in MF instead of Sissoko/Winks and having Bale up front. That makes us a better team even if all Bergwijn does is the stupid role that Sissoko plays.
 
Like the post. But if you're saying he needs to round out and diversify his skill set to adapt into formations not tailored specifically to featuring him...then don't you have to give him the chance to do that?

Saying Dele isn't a #10, so he can't play as a #10, and if he wants to play he needs to learn how to play other roles like a #10...doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

Dele needs to kick on and fight for a place in the team somewhere and get off Instagram, thats all I know.
That is what practice and training are for.

He needs to show that he is better in the role than the other players ahead of him
 
I would set them up in a midfield 3. I would have Lo Celso tend to be further forward than Ndombele and PEH but because of their skill set either Ndombele or GLC could move back or forward to cover for the other.

I am more than fine getting a new manager that brings in better tactics and formations to help us win.

Plenty of teams play with the FBs going forward and a midfielder playing up without getting shafted. We currently play with 10 men against 11 with the role that Sissoko/Winks "play" for us.

Yes the position is ridiculous I agree.

The better player is GLC. I would also prefer playing Bergwijn in MF instead of Sissoko/Winks and having Bale up front. That makes us a better team even if all Bergwijn does is the stupid role that Sissoko plays.
Initially I was going to respond to the idea of playing GLC and Ndombele together, but after reading your proposal of starting Bale and playing Bergwijn in defensive midfield, it became obvious that you are either clueless about formations and tactics or are so blinded by your bias for certain players, that you couldnt care less what the final outcome would be.
 
Initially I was going to respond to the idea of playing GLC and Ndombele together, but after reading your proposal of starting Bale and playing Bergwijn in defensive midfield, it became obvious that you are either clueless about formations and tactics or are so blinded by your bias for certain players, that you couldnt care less what the final outcome would be.

That is not ideal as I would prefer we just upgrade Sissoko but since that seems unlikely then I am going with what we have to choose from with a bad mix of players and forced formation.

Obviously I would change the tactics and formation rather than play guys out of formation but if we are forced to stick with the ridiculous tactics then I would prefer we put better players into the roles we are forced to play with.
 
That is not ideal as I would prefer we just upgrade Sissoko but since that seems unlikely then I am going with what we have to choose from with a bad mix of players and forced formation.

Obviously I would change the tactics and formation rather than play guys out of formation but if we are forced to stick with the ridiculous tactics then I would prefer we put better players into the roles we are forced to play with.
The problem is that Sissoko is better than Bergwijn in a double pivot, and Bergwijn is better than Bale as a RM. Your suggestion would have made us worse in two positions instead of one
 
The problem is that Sissoko is better than Bergwijn in a double pivot, and Bergwijn is better than Bale as a RM. Your suggestion would have made us worse in two positions instead of one

Sissoko is not better than Bergwijn in a double pivot. I agree that Bergwijn is better than Bale.

Ideally we would have someone better at either position but we don't.

And again this is all based on the ridiculous notion that we have to stick to this formation and tactics and that GLC is out.

Because a 4-3-3 solves a lot of problems rather than having to shoe horn Sissoko in a ridiculous babysitting role that doesn't help us at all.
 
And presumably you think he can't play a deep playmaker role?

Strange, i would say he's suited quite well to that. Certainly more so than Winks or Hojberg depending on who partners Sissoko.

What did you see as the player roles when we had Dembele + Wanyama at the base of Midfield?
I don't think he has the defensive ability nor the technical ability to dictate pace and tempo. It was difficult enough getting his defensive work rate to where it was suitable for his advanced role, can't imagine what it would do to him if he needs to be even more defensive. I would rather he plays in his current role which suits him fine, than force him into a role that he is less suited for. Instead of playing that deep, it's better to change the formation.

With Wanyama + Dembele, Dembele was the playmaker and would have fit in the role we are currently missing. You might think they are similar, but Ndombele is nothing like that Dembele
 
Sissoko is not better than Bergwijn in a double pivot. I agree that Bergwijn is better than Bale.

Ideally we would have someone better at either position but we don't.

And again this is all based on the ridiculous notion that we have to stick to this formation and tactics and that GLC is out.

Because a 4-3-3 solves a lot of problems rather than having to shoe horn Sissoko in a ridiculous babysitting role that doesn't help us at all.
You are not doing your credibility any service when you claim Bergwijn is better than Sissoko as a defensive midfielder. That is just nonsense.

Yes, a 4-3-3 solves your Sissoko problem, but creates others e.g. what happens when GLC is unavailable, Reguilon and Son cannot be as offensive as they currently are, Bergwijn has to track back even more, how do you man mark a CAM when needed etc.

All these can be debated but are simply too hypothetical to be worth much value
 
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