Dele

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You first go all out and explain how people are looking things in overly simplistic fashion, and it should not be done.

And then you don't do just 180 degrees but more like 2x360 degrees and 180 degrees on top of that, and claim that it was all just Mourinho. Player are actually great champs and this is rejuvinated team we are seeing now. And you base this on performances against long-ago relegated team + narrow win over team that is also in bottom 25% in the league. While against City the whole collective was appallingly pathetic. Drenched in loser mentality. No courage. No fight. It was an absolute horrorshow.

What. The. Fuck.
Dele was very-very average and part of things absolutely falling apart in Poch last 12-18 months. 2018/19 saw massive drop in output from Alli. But hey, it is all Mourinho effect, right! Guess Dele saw him coming for a while.
I would not even go into Bergwijn issue again. I have lost count on times I've read laughable claims like he wouldn't be instructed to attack or whatnot. His attacking performance has just been poor. He has not been able to find a net throughout the season, and some are desperately trying to claim that it has been fully down on Mou and his instructions. That sounds so extremely unrealistic.
What consideres Ndombele - he was in and out. As was he under Poch. In start of Mou reign he got some critique. At some point this season he was unplayable and undroppable - played some brilliant football. Yet at the end of Mou era, he faded badly again. So with him as well - jury is still out there, and I find that his personal performances in last 2 months of Mou time also deserve some criticism, while his peak-form - also under Mou - deserves praise.

In regards of Dele - I will not say 100% this nor 100% that. I hope he starts contributing to team success in the future. That would be welcomed to me as a Spurs fan. At the same time I also understand that his skill-set and way of playing have some major flaws as well. It can still go one way or another. But to claim that his weak performances in past 3 (!!) seasons would be down on Mou, who was here for less than 1,5 seasons - does not seem to be a balanced opinion.
You've mixed up a lot of shit here.

1. Dele under Poch was brilliant
2. Dele's performances under the latter stages of Poch's reign are viewed by many as really poor. They weren't, they were DIFFERENT, he played a much, much deeper role (not where his main talents are but a role he played for the team to plug a dying and decaying central midfield with both Wanyamma and Dembele struggling for fitness and form. We basically went from one of the best central midfielders to not having one at all. I've consistently argued this since it was happening, many of those I argued with at the time didn't even realise he was asked to play a withdrawn and deeper role as they screamed that he's no long scoring or involved in the build-up enough. It's all there in black and white in this very thread and only goes on to serve my view that these people really don't have a very good view on what's going on in the game, what players individual instructions are, many pundits unfortunately do the same, whilst not watching Spurs every week you would have thought they would do the very basic of research before they speak, hey ho, Embarrassing!)
3. If you want to extrapolate my views on Spurs, it's managers and players over the last 7yrs then WTF!!! I'll help you out though:
a) Poch was great - I loved his football
b) Last 18months of his reign there were struggles, biggest of all the challenges that compromised how he wants his teams to play was the loss of Wanyamma and Dembele in CM, compromises had to be found, we really struggled (there were loads of other things we can add, some include Poch himself) but feel this is the biggest and also most relevant to the topic of Dele. By dropping him deeper we basically lost his pressing, we stopped winning the ball high up the pitch, we became a mid-block team (I also think not having a summer break re the world cup accelerated this and compounded with the general overall fitness of the team during that post-world cup season).
c) Mourinho was a disaster for Spurs from the moment he was appointed. Shit football. Shit man-management. Shit tactics. He's sucked the soul out of this Club.
d) Mourinho has outcast Dele. Fact.
e) Mourinho has had a detrimental effect on all players with the exception of Lloris, Kane, Son & Lucas (loads of nuance around him, let's not go there). But specifically on Dele he was never going to play him because his football is not possession-based football, it's from a bygone era. Secondly, it enables him to pull the trick of binning off big-name players to strut his power-crazed, ego-fueled, out of date management style. Guess what? he's been sacked as a direct result, Dele has outlasted the relic!
f) I've also been consistent in choosing to NOT slate any individual player whilst we had Mourinho in charge. These also extend to signalling out the defence or midfield or attack. It simply doesn't hold up whilst he was in charge doing such a poor job in a) preparing the team b) coaching the team c) the tactics. IT IS POINTLESS CRITIQUING INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS UNDER MOURINHO d) playing directly into the hands of what might be a perceived weakness, or what actually could be argued as a strength (yes our defence, if organised properly and not asked to defend for 90mins is actually pretty damn good).
f) In a low-block Tottenham I would NOT pick Dele! There is no position for him in a low-block Spurs.

So back to Dele:
1) He has always been a player since the day he broke into the side, a player that losing the ball a lot. A player that miss-places the ball a lot. A player that misses lots of chances in front of a goal. None of this mattered though because he scored and assisted a ton of goals.
2) His goals and assists was all that was spoken about him (and his temperament, which for me has always been excellent), not his third man runs, not his pressing, not his ability to link play, not his ability to create space.
3) So the moment his assists and goals drop off, BECAUSE HE'S NO LONGER PLAYING AS A 2ND STRIKER, the focus remains on assists and goal contributions declining = he's declining! Bollocks!
4) He was deployed differently in his first 3 seasons by Poch (so too was Kane) but both were still attackers, Still pressing high up the pitch without the ball. But the moment we lost our CM we also lost our Dele, our press, our thrid man runs, our ability to keep the ball high up the pitch (and yes that still includes when he loses possession through his passing, a flick that didn't come off, a lost tackle, whatever. If we counter-pressed off this then our attacks were far, far better as a consequence - To quote Klopp"No playmaker in the world can be as good as a good counter-pressing situation.”).
5) People remain fixated purely on the assist or goal, to such a point they didn't even notice he was playing deep.
6) People are still doing the similar now, just look at the comments in the match thread, people actually thought he did nothing and should have been hooked!!! Seriously this shows such a staggeringly poor take on football it's truly unbelievable. He was one of the main reasons we played in the oppo tertiary. He was one of the main reasons we pressed to opp high, in an intelligent manner, not luck a bunch of kids when he attempted to do similar under Mourinho (including Dele, when selected, which emphasis just how shit the coaching was and why it's pointless taking aim at individual players because they are following the instructions of the coach).
 
Dele's best attacking trait is clearly his positioning (which requires off ball movement). If anyone doesn't realize that by now, I'm not sure they understand the sport.
He facilitates the triangles that we can play, even when he doesn't get involved in the play the movement is making space for others.

We may be able to replace with likewise who can offer a bit more than this version of dele but not within our squad.
 
When someone posts a really really long reply

Ego Nwodim No GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
I didn't think he was too good on Sunday, but he did run around a lot and find space. His first game in ages though so he's bound to be rusty.
My issues with him have been two fold really. Firstly that he is immature and easily distracted off the field, and secondly it's that he hasn't evolved his game as he's aged.
At 25 he's going to be physically and mentally different to what he was at 20/21/22 and he should have been getting better and bringing more into his game, but so far it doesn't seem he has to me.
He's still a good player, I'm just not sure he's right for us. I've no issue with him getting a run of games though to see where he's at.
 
He's a limited player who we could easily upgrade. Hopefully someone is willing to take a punt on him this summer and we get a decent fee to spend on someone technically proficient so we can work towards controlling games again.

In all likelihood he stays another season before we get rid.
 
1 There will be lists of players at the end of the season I would not want to leave. Son & Kane are on that list.
2 There are then lists of players that the player has a contract that will not be bettered elsewhere and like Rose he will refuse to leave.
3 The rest are up for grabs and can leave if an acceptable offer comes in. Please let Sanchez & Sissoko get an offer.
Now Dele has moved off list 1 but is probably on list 2. If Mourinho stayed he might have wanted out but he may prefer to take his chances with the new Manager as I doubt any club bigger than us will want him, meaning he is taking a drop.
I may be wrong and if he falls into list 3 then ok he can go.
However whatever anyone at the club or fans want if a player has a contract it is up to them if they leave.
 
1 There will be lists of players at the end of the season I would not want to leave. Son & Kane are on that list.
2 There are then lists of players that the player has a contract that will not be bettered elsewhere and like Rose he will refuse to leave.
3 The rest are up for grabs and can leave if an acceptable offer comes in. Please let Sanchez & Sissoko get an offer.
Now Dele has moved off list 1 but is probably on list 2. If Mourinho stayed he might have wanted out but he may prefer to take his chances with the new Manager as I doubt any club bigger than us will want him, meaning he is taking a drop.
I may be wrong and if he falls into list 3 then ok he can go.
However whatever anyone at the club or fans want if a player has a contract it is up to them if they leave.
He should be happy at a smaller club. Less pressure, lower workload (based on shorter cup runs and no European games)
 
Why would he want that? I would think he wants his England place back and he needs to be a first team regular at a good team for that.

If he wants to fight for an England place then the likes of Everton, Burnley or Villa might well be the best place for him. If he’s a bigger fish in a small pond with less competition for a place then he’s more likely to get regular game time.
 
We'd best hope that Dele can capture some of his old form over the next few weeks because there's no chance he's let go in the summer. I could go either way on it myself, but you get the feeling Levy sees him as a real star and if he's ever to be sold it won't be now with his career at its lowest ebb.
 
I thought it was a typical Dele performance against Sheff United. Lots of sloppy moments and poor touches, but at times lively. We either need to give him a proper run of games to find some form or forget about him. Needs to fuck the dreds off though either way.
 
I’m not sure I agree with that. He always looks in top top condition, so he’s obviously working hard on fitness and diet etc. By farting around, you mean the light hearted stuff? No bad thing in a dressing room IMO, look at what Gazza did for team
morale (granted he didn’t look after his fitness / diet).

a good coach would get a lot more out of Dele. His finishing and reactive thinking in the box are excellent, he also nicks the ball well through quick feet and turns the ball over.

when he drifts into the middle third it unravels.... sloppy (risky) passing, losing the ball etc. Drill him to play percentages in the middle third and explode in the final third. Will never be a good midfielder
Spot on, and Dele was prime when his runs, and movement were rewarded with passes from the likes of Kane and Ericsson. I feel that he definitely suffered when CE left, and we had to play a different system as a result. Definitely too lightweight, and not instinctive enough to be a CAM.
 
Anyone writing off Dele just haven't a clue IMO. Dele has been poor and form dipped at a time everyone else did. He has hardly played for us in the last year after being put on a pedestal by Jose when he first arrived.

If you honestly think he's finished and won't go and bag double figure goals for another good team you're mistaken. If we had played him all year and we were still poor and he had no goals fair enough but to be played so infrequently and people expect him to just be brilliant. Look at Bale when he first arrived, man looked a shell of himself.

Dele in not match fit and has had his confidence shattered by firstly feeling guilt on Poch being sacked like the rest of the squad, then being put into the spotlight by Mourinho and despite starting well he was then targeted.

Expectations on this man is just way to high IMO and he's one of those players that for me is better when the players around him are doing their jobs. Look at Lingard at West Ham, bit of confidence and he's shining now. You're blind if you can't see Dele has no match fitness and shattered on confidence.
This is the triumph of imagination over experience
 
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