Europa Conference League 2021/22; potential QR2 vs Honka Espoo

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

How far will we reach?


  • Total voters
    205
So....Pot 4 looks trash. But the rest of it looks quite ok. I am delighted we could face FC Union Berlin ( Pot 3 ) Great story for them. Pot 2 has some ok sides. And pot 1 has enough decent clubs for this not to be as shit as potentially it could have been.

A trip to Berlin in late Summer and I am going!
 
You've moved the discussion, you said the EL wasn't worth playing in because it didn't pay enough. I argued that it pays 100X+ what the League Cup (which so many defend for some reason), and so you obviously think we shouldn't try to win that one.

Now you're saying the money doesn't matter, its about how big the teams you're playing are - even if the prize money for playing in the tournament doesn't even cover the player wage cost of participation.

Playing Roma or Villarreal in a final is meh? We haven't won a trophy in 13 fucking years. We were worried about becoming Woolwich with the stadium, but fuck me if we aren't turning into Spam.
Reread my post again.

I refer to Europa Conference League.

I said Europa League has CL prize, and random big teams. Yet it's still a hassle, and if one doesn't have enough depth, and required to prioritize, it's not rare to see one would drop EL in favor of bigger thing in the league: title challenge sort of thing.

With priority in mind, how sure one can be that Villareal and Roma would commit to go all the way, if they find themselves in position to prioritize bigger things in the following season? You commit your season in this competition the whole season playing Thursday-Sunday/Monday, yet there is good probability you may not see any decent team worth your time here. In contrary, in League Cup, it's still rare to avoid all bigger teams. Worst case scenario, you have an easy run for the trophy (not happening), with the games are packed in few months only.

When a trophy requires so much failing to participate, winning it may says we end our trophy drought on paper, but in reality it brings no belief since it's competition of loser. Teams with better thing to do would have a difficult time to have a chance to play in this competition. It's almost same thing to getting relegated to Championship and to champion them all the following to count that title. Don't give Levy that idea, OK?
 
Last edited:
So....Pot 4 looks trash. But the rest of it looks quite ok. I am delighted we could face FC Union Berlin ( Pot 3 ) Great story for them. Pot 2 has some ok sides. And pot 1 has enough decent clubs for this not to be as shit as potentially it could have been.

A trip to Berlin in late Summer and I am going!

What pots are you talking about?
 
Reread again.

I refer Europa Conference League.

I said Europa League has CL prize, and random big teams. Yet it's still a hassle, and if one doesn't have enough depth, and required to prioritize, it's not rare to see one would drop EL in favor of bigger thing in the league: title challenge sort of thing.

With priority in mind, how sure one can be that Villareal and Roma would commit to go all the way, if they find themselves in position to prioritize bigger things in the following season? You commit your season in this competition the whole season playing Thursday-Sunday/Monday, yet there is good probability you may not see any decent team worth your time here. In contrary, in League Cup, it's still rare to avoid all bigger teams. Worst case scenario, you have an easy run for the trophy (not happening), with the games are packed in few months only.

When a trophy requires so much failing to participate, winning it may says we end our trophy drought on paper, but in reality it brings no belief since it's competition of loser. Teams with better thing to do would have a difficult time to have a chance to play in this competition.
You said the EL wasn't worth it without the CL qualification gimmick. It is, just on financials, vastly more beneficial than the League Cup which actually costs clubs of top half PL standard money to play in. It doesn't provide the riches of the CL, but it provides tens of millions in revenue for a deep run, and significantly more money than either of the domestic cups.

This idea of deprioritizing the EL is so bizarre and so completely unique to Spurs - a club that's won fuck all in 13 years and 2 minor cups in 30 years and counting.

Since the format was switched to a single final, the clubs who have played in that final include Liverpool, Woolwich, Chelsea, United, Inter, Lazio, Dortmund, Sevilla, Valencia, Atletico, Ajax, Marseilles, Porto, and Benfica.

But Spurs are too big with a trophy cabinet too full to give it a go.

:pochcmon:

The current estimates place the total payout of winning the ECL around €20M. For winning the FA Cup we'd get about €3.5M. It's not a competition we want to be in, obviously, but it pays a substantial amount and provides an opportunity to win something. Something we haven't done in 13 fucking years.

We really need to get over ourselves.
 
11 Europa League / UEFA Cup appearances since 99/00.
The teams that have knocked us out;

Kaiserslautern
Sevilla
PSV
Shakhtar
PAOK / Shamrock / Rubin Kazan
Inter
Benfica
Fiorentina
Dortmund
Gent
Zagreb

The best we have done is the Quarter Finals twice.
We won't win this if we don't respect the competition or opposition.
 
11 Europa League / UEFA Cup appearances since 99/00.
The teams that have knocked us out;

Kaiserslautern
Sevilla
PSV
Shakhtar
PAOK / Shamrock / Rubin Kazan
Inter
Benfica
Fiorentina
Dortmund
Gent
Zagreb

The best we have done is the Quarter Finals twice.
We won't win this if we don't respect the competition or opposition.
We were very, very nearly knocked out by Lokomotiv Plovdiv this year. And with a pretty strong team at that.

One thing thinking back on those qualifiers reminds me is that these crazy random games are way less fun without fans. Let’s hope they are back to something like normal come the new season.
 
That’s insane. Both figures, really.

We the fans need to fight the centralization of the money. Therein lies much of what’s wrong and getting wronger with the sport.
I agree. But its really the nature of globalization, isn't it?

Similar to college conference realignment in the US sports, its all driven by tv market revenue. European comps can access more TV markets, and thus get more money.
 
For winning the FA Cup we'd get about €3.5M.

As the team with one of (if not) the largest match day income potential, a good run of home games in the FA Cup is pretty important for us.
Not sure if the gates are split with the away team 50:50 I understood.

Our last run in front of fans we had these attendances;
Middlesbrough: 49,202
Southampton: 56,046
Norwich: 58,007
Total: 163,255

I'm not sure of an average, but lets say at £50 per head that's over £8 million.
Taking programmes, food, shop sales + the ticket price I think that's a conservative estimate.

I'm not saying it's more than Europa League. 80,465 fans (including me) paid to watch Gent knock us out at Wembley.
The point I'm making is a good FA Cup run is worth more to the club than £3.5 million.
 
I agree. But its really the nature of globalization, isn't it?

Similar to college conference realignment in the US sports, its all driven by tv market revenue. European comps can access more TV markets, and thus get more money.
Sure. Which is all terrible of course, and then there’s the added craziness whereby Leicester is a more viable city for an elite football club than like Lisbon or Amsterdam.

That the ESL doesn’t think in those terms shows what a brainless smash-and-grab job it is.

Anyway, if UEFA had an ounce of self-preservation instinct they’d make the prize money for all three competitions equal and smash all the structural advantages they’ve gifted the bigger leagues over the years. A handful of clubs’ monopoly on UEFA revenue is not a law of nature, it’s an ongoing conscious choice.
 
As the team with one of (if not) the largest match day income potential, a good run of home games in the FA Cup is pretty important for us.
Not sure if the gates are split with the away team 50:50 I understood.

Our last run in front of fans we had these attendances;
Middlesbrough: 49,202
Southampton: 56,046
Norwich: 58,007
Total: 163,255

I'm not sure of an average, but lets say at £50 per head that's over £8 million.
Taking programmes, food, shop sales + the ticket price I think that's a conservative estimate.

I'm not saying it's more than Europa League. 80,465 fans (including me) paid to watch Gent knock us out at Wembley.
The point I'm making is a good FA Cup run is worth more to the club than £3.5 million.
I'm simply comparing non-stadium revenue. Comparing stadium revenue just makes the EL advantage larger, as you're guaranteed a number of home matches where you take most all the revenue. Theoretically we could make it all the way to the LC or FA Cup final, or semi in the latter case, without a single large gate.

But yes, you can also make significant additional gate revenue in the domestic cups. Its just that it doesn't close the gap.
 
Sure. Which is all terrible of course, and then there’s the added craziness whereby Leicester is a more viable city for an elite football club than like Lisbon or Amsterdam.

That the ESL doesn’t think in those terms shows what a brainless smash-and-grab job it is.

Anyway, if UEFA had an ounce of self-preservation instinct they’d make the prize money for all three competitions equal and smash all the structural advantages they’ve gifted the bigger leagues over the years. A handful of clubs’ monopoly on UEFA revenue is not a law of nature, it’s an ongoing conscious choice.
Definitely agree. But they won't do it because they're still terrified, despite public posturing, that Madrid, United, Milan, etc. will fuck them off. UEFA definitely needs the clubs more than the clubs need them...right now all that's preserving the system is UEFA's arguably thin moral advantage.
 
I'm simply comparing non-stadium revenue. Comparing stadium revenue just makes the EL advantage larger, as you're guaranteed a number of home matches where you take most all the revenue. Theoretically we could make it all the way to the LC or FA Cup final, or semi in the latter case, without a single large gate.

But yes, you can also make significant additional gate revenue in the domestic cups. Its just that it doesn't close the gap.
Yeah I don't dispute that.

From the 3rd round of the FA Cup to winning it is 6 games excluding replays.
The UEFA Conference League I understand would require us to play 15 games to participate in the final.

So with the pure prize money figures mentioned above divided by games played;
FA Cup: £0.6 million per game (I assume there's no replay bonus)
UEFA Conference: £1.3 million per game

More than double per game played. Honestly I expected that to be a bigger gap but interesting numbers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You said the EL wasn't worth it without the CL qualification gimmick. It is, just on financials, vastly more beneficial than the League Cup which actually costs clubs of top half PL standard money to play in. It doesn't provide the riches of the CL, but it provides tens of millions in revenue for a deep run, and significantly more money than either of the domestic cups.

This idea of deprioritizing the EL is so bizarre and so completely unique to Spurs - a club that's won fuck all in 13 years and 2 minor cups in 30 years and counting.

Since the format was switched to a single final, the clubs who have played in that final include Liverpool, Woolwich, Chelsea, United, Inter, Lazio, Dortmund, Sevilla, Valencia, Atletico, Ajax, Marseilles, Porto, and Benfica.

But Spurs are too big with a trophy cabinet too full to give it a go.

:pochcmon:

The current estimates place the total payout of winning the ECL around €20M. For winning the FA Cup we'd get about €3.5M. It's not a competition we want to be in, obviously, but it pays a substantial amount and provides an opportunity to win something. Something we haven't done in 13 fucking years.

We really need to get over ourselves.
Spot on!
 
At this point there is no guarantee we can get Europa league through league qualification, so winning the tournament might be the best route to getting it. It’s not glamorous but we need a trophy and it will bring in some extra money. We can hopefully use it to help some youngsters get minutes as well. We will need to take it seriously in the knock out stages, they must learn the lesson from this year.
 
Yup nobody at Spurs wants a European trophy? .... think you miss-read the room just a bit
no, don't think i did. If you really think the new manager will go strong in this and risk the top 4 then I think you have definitely mis-read the majority opinion and what levy has shown with poch who was told top 4 was the priority. We should use this competition purely to get injured players fit, reserve/fringe players and maybe those we want to send on loan. Doing that will help us more in the long term.
 
We’re gonna meet Jose and Roma in the final, aren’t we?
we have no divine right to say we would get to the final. we seem to always lose to shit teams in the europa league and im sure there will be a few of those games in the conference league we need our star players to get us out of....kane for one if he is still there
 
Back
Top Bottom