Tottenham Hotspur vs Chelsea. 4.30 Sunday 19th September. EPL

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Agreed, our midfield fell apart when Kante arrived, because they didn't have the fitness to keep up with him. If N'dombele can regain full match fitness (has he ever had it?) and LoCelso can find some form and inspiration, we might have a challenging midfield.
Romero fully fit could be our new Toby
The other thing that changed in the second half was we stopped pressing them high up the pitch.

When Silva was under a bit of pressure in the first half they didn't play out all that effectively. Second half he had an armchair ride and was spraying passes about with all the time in the world.
 
The other thing that changed in the second half was we stopped pressing them high up the pitch.

When Silva was under a bit of pressure in the first half they didn't play out all that effectively. Second half he had an armchair ride and was spraying passes about with all the time in the world.

It's down to a weak mentality, it was like when people thought the fact we always gave up leads last season was entirely down to Jose. It wasn't, yes his tactics were dour but this squad of players are terrible mentally.

Chelsea came out strong and we folded. Soon as that first goal went in I knew we'd lose by two or three, I haven't had faith in this clubs ability to stage any kind of a comeback in years.

It's easy to press hard and be energetic in the early stages. Harder to do so when you're not fresh and you've been rocked.

The Zagreb result illustrated perfectly how soft this squad is. Any kind of pressure or setback and they collapse like a house of cards, it doesn't even require the other team to have that much quality.
 
It's down to a weak mentality, it was like when people thought the fact we always gave up leads last season was entirely down to Jose. It wasn't, yes his tactics were dour but this squad of players are terrible mentally.

Chelsea came out strong and we folded. Soon as that first goal went in I knew we'd lose by two or three, I haven't had faith in this clubs ability to stage any kind of a comeback in years.

It's easy to press hard and be energetic in the early stages. Harder to do so when you're not fresh and you've been rocked.

The Zagreb result illustrated perfectly how soft this squad is. Any kind of pressure or setback and they collapse like a house of cards, it doesn't even require the other team to have that much quality.
Mourinho help bring that weak mentality about by breaking the squad. We never had this kind of weak mentality under Poch their was always a belief we could win. Look at the Ajax game. The fact is the belief was built up with years of Poch as manager. The fact is our squad has been broken since losing the champions league final.
 
Mourinho help bring that weak mentality about by breaking the squad. We never had this kind of weak mentality under Poch their was always a belief we could win. Look at the Ajax game. The fact is the belief was built up with years of Poch as manager. The fact is our squad has been broken since losing the champions league final.

Yeah, we need a total refresh. Squad rebuild from the ground up under a younger manager who is willing to give it time ala Poch.
 
Mourinho help bring that weak mentality about by breaking the squad. We never had this kind of weak mentality under Poch their was always a belief we could win. Look at the Ajax game. The fact is the belief was built up with years of Poch as manager. The fact is our squad has been broken since losing the champions league final.
Spurs have had a weak mentality for years. Even under Poch. But under Poch it tended to boil over into us playing very rough rather than just collapsing. The battle of the bridge being the prime example.

Ajax is our greatest overcoming of it. But Spurs collapsing in on itself when things don't go our way did not start with Jose. His ultra defensive tactics only exposed it more.
 
The other thing that changed in the second half was we stopped pressing them high up the pitch.

When Silva was under a bit of pressure in the first half they didn't play out all that effectively. Second half he had an armchair ride and was spraying passes about with all the time in the world.
Harry and Tanguy slowing down probably play a part in that. It is hard to press from the front when two of the players expected to do it don't keep up with the pace. You can cover for one. But not too, the space for the opponent to work in becomes much too big.
 
Yeah, we need a total refresh. Squad rebuild from the ground up under a younger manager who is willing to give it time ala Poch.

Nuno is as young (or younger) than all the oft mentioned names:

Potter: 46
Nuno: 47
T.Frank: 47
Rodgers: 48
Tuchel: 48
Pep: 50
Ten Haag: 51
Conte: 52
Klopp: 54


.....I'm also pretty damn sure Nuno is more than happy to 'give it time'.

It's inevitably the fans/owners that run out of patience whatever the club/manger.
 
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Nuno is as young (or younger) than all the oft mentioned names:

Potter: 46
Nuno: 47
Frank: 47
Rodgers: 48
Ten Haag: 51
Tuchel: 48
Pep: 50
Klopp: 54


.....I'm also pretty damn sure Nuno is more than happy to 'give it time'.

It's inevitably the fans/owners that run out of patience whatever the club/manger.

Nuno ticks some boxes, but not others for me. If other people rate him/think he's up to the job then that's fine, personally I find his style of play utterly depressing, and if Wolves fans got sick of it, so will we.
 
Nuno ticks some boxes, but not others for me. If other people rate him/think he's up to the job then that's fine, personally I find his style of play utterly depressing, and if Wolves fans got sick of it, so will we.

That wasn't a Nuno-fan post.... Just a myth-buster.
 
Facts: We played well 1st half.
Second half we tired.
Dier and Son were just returning from injury.
Ndombele 1st EPL start this season.
GLC, Romero returning from quarantine and 1st competitive game for 2 weeks.
Royal 2nd EPL game he has ever played.
This game is now an ex-parrot to me.
 
The only stat that matters is the scoreline.

We lost 3 nil.

The only stat that matters on the day is the scoreline, but what can matter in the medium or long term is whether or not we are doing the right things tactically/performance/application wise because if they become endemic then that will ultimately decide a season, not one game, especially against one of the best/best coached side around.

Edit
That's not me saying I am convinced we are on the right path with Nuno, as there is fuck all in his back catalogue that points me to thinking he's a proactive/progressive coach. Just saying performances matter IMO, because they are, or can, be indicative of something more sustainable than single results - which can be flukey.
 
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No one is talking about stats. It's about assessing the performance.

We've just played the best team in the World, if someone disagrees with that I would love to know who they think is better and why.

That first half was not only the best half of football we've played in (at a guess) 2.5 seasons it was also probably Chelsea's most difficult have they've had to play since Tuchel has taken charge. It was in the context of where we are great.

Before kick-off the expectation is that we were getting dry-humped, that first half we put Chavs in a place they haven't been before and we did it by playing a style of football that none of us expected to see under Nuno.

If we replicate that half in all our games this season then we take points from 80% of the teams in the league.

There's nothing in Nuno's oeuvre to give me confidence that the first half Sunday will lead to a similar sustainable coached/tactical methodology, so I'm not advocate anyone sucks anyone off yet, but you're right, tactically, that was one of our better halves against a top team for 2-3 years, the last time I felt we got things as right was probably Poch v Sarri's Chelsea at Wembley, when he used Alli to stop Jorginho, we were really aggressive and gave them a right good doing.

There was some utter garbage performances from Poch in his first four-five months, but at least we had some prior evidence of his methodology to keep us from giving up hope in those early months. As I said, with Nuno there's no back catalogue of any kind of proactive/progressive method (caveat this with I've only really watched his Wolves team, but nothing I've heard or read says he was an enlightened coach in Portugal or Spain) to sustain us through a "transition" period, so it's very much all a bit of a venture into the unknown.

I said in the match thread after 15-20minutes, the good thing is we are at least playing with some aggression (once that we were also on the front foot too). Whatever tactical approach you take, you have to at least do it with some aggression, even a mid/low block and counter. We lost that completely under Poch, and never got it back under Mourinho.


For thirty minutes Nuno, in tactics and application, got the better of Tuchel, but once Tuchel figured it out, matched us up in that midfield, their superiority won out. I do think that jammy second goal knocked the shit out of us though, at that point I thought we were actually just starting to claw a foothold back in the game after a ropey first 10 second half.

Chances were Chelsea would have chucked Werner on and just picked us off, as we had to come forward once we were behind, but that second goal, followed by the poor sub of Ndombele almost straight after, left us a bit flat. And I don't mean poor sub of Ndombele because he'd been so fabulous he was beyond reproach, I just think at 2-0 up Chelsea probably going to shell a bit, we were probably going to have a bit more ball (we needed to) so we might as well have left our only creative, and ball progressing midfielder out there for at least another 10 minutes. Skipp was good and aggressive when he came on, but was not really what we needed tactically, unless we swapped him for Hojberg to give Alli/LoCelso/Ndombele more license.
 
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There's nothing in Nuno's oeuvre to give me confidence that the first half Sunday will lead to a similar sustainable coached/tactical methodology, so I'm not advocate anyone sucks anyone off yet, but you're right, tactically, that was one of our better halves against a top team for 2-3 years, the last time I felt we got things as right was probably Poch v Sarri's Chelsea at Wembley, when he used Alli to stop Jorginho, we were really aggressive and gave them a right good doing.

There was some utter garbage performances from Poch in his first four-five months, but at least we had some prior evidence of his methodology to keep us from giving up hope in those early months. As I said, with Nuno there's no back catalogue of any kind of proactive/progressive method (caveat this with I've only really watched his Wolves team, but nothing I've heard or read says he was an enlightened coach in Portugal or Spain) to sustain us through a "transition" period, so it's very much all a bit of a venture into the unknown.

I said in the match thread after 15-20minutes, the best thing is we are at least playing with some aggression (once that we were also on the front foot too). Whatever tactical approach you take, you have to at least do it with some aggression, even a mid/low block and counter. We lost that completely under Poch, and never got it back under Mourinho.


For thirty minutes Nuno, in tactics and application, got the better of Tuchel, but once Tuchel figured it out, matched us up in that midfield, their superiority won out. I do think that jammy second goal knocked the shit out of us though, at that point I thought we were actually just starting to claw a foothold back in the game after a ropey first 10 second half.

Chances were Chelsea would have chucked Werner on and just picked us off, as we had to come forward once we were behind, but that second goal, followed by the poor sub of Ndombele almost straight after, left us a bit flat. And I don't mean poor sub of Ndombele because he'd been so fabulous he was beyond reproach, I just think at 2-0 up Chelsea probably going to shell a bit, we were probably going to have a bit more ball (we needed to) so we might as well have left our only creative, and ball progressing midfielder out there for at least another 10 minutes. Skipp was good and aggressive when he came on, but was not really what we needed tactically, unless we swapped him for Hojberg to give Alli/LoCelso/Ndombele more license.
Completely agree.

Need to obviously see this repeated again but at least I am encouraged by his comments post-game where he's committed to replicate and build on the first half as a direction of travel, lets fucking hope so. I said post-match that if we take that approach into every game this season (for simplicity's sake ignoring any specific tactical approach) then we take points from 80% of the oppo in the league.

I still think he's a bit fucked by not having Lucas or Berg to use in 2nd half and switch it up to a counter-attack, in response to Tuchel dropping Kante into midfield. Kane then becomes the playmaker/possession magnet (bypassing the midfield in the event of Ndombele being subbed)???? Still need to get the ball to him to have done that though which might have proved difficult.
 
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In 1993 Harding and Bates took over Chelsea and started spending money like water, developing the ground, Chelsea Village etc. They also started buy elite players and sinking millions into the team to achieve success. What they got for their outlay were the cups you listed, not the league or the European cup. When Harding died it all started to fall apart as they had been spending money they didn't have in the hope it won them the big prize.
Ymeaning they would have to ground share, sell off their player assets and try to rebuild - a glorious moment for all Spurs fans - and then the Russian fairy godmother rocked up (and spoiled everything!)

Basically, Chelsea have been buying success from 93 with money they didn't earn, financially or in terms of on field success.

That's not to say that their football teams haven't deserved to win their games and their trophies - it's just that had the club gone about their business in the same way as every other club has had to (excluding the other frauds in Manchester), they would be another West Ham -either that or be extinct or hacking around in the southern league
In 1993 Harding and Bates took over Chelsea and started spending money like water, developing the ground, Chelsea Village etc. They also started buy elite players and sinking millions into the team to achieve success. What they got for their outlay were the cups you listed, not the league or the European cup. When Harding died it all started to fall apart as they had been spending money they didn't have in the hope it won them the big prize.
What happened in that period is a smaller version of what happened when Abramovich arrived. Chelsea were on the verge of being wound up, because they were in so much debt and couldn't pay it off without them selling their site to developers, meaning they would have to ground share, sell off their player assets and try to rebuild - a glorious moment for all Spurs fans - and then the Russian fairy godmother rocked up (and spoiled everything!)

Basically, Chelsea have been buying success from 93 with money they didn't earn, financially or in terms of on field success.

That's not to say that their football teams haven't deserved to win their games and their trophies - it's just that had the club gone about their business in the same way as every other club has had to (excluding the other frauds in Manchester), they would be another West Ham -either that or be extinct or hacking around in the southern league
That’s just not the case.

It was possible that they would go have gone into administration but there was no way that the ground could / would have been sold because Bates had transferred ownership of the bulk of the site such as the stands pitch and even the name Chelsea FC into a separate entity called Chelsea Pitch Owners to protect those assets from the hands of developers should the worse happen.

It was a clever move by Bates. Chelsea lent the Pitch Owners a significant sum ( most of that debt remains outstanding) and that loan was in turn used to buy the assets I mention from Chelsea. Chelsea had had significant issues going back to the 70s when developers did actually own the site.ironically those developers entered insolvency and Chelsea bought the site back from the administrators
 
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