Heung-Min Son (손흥민)

[Deuterz]

It's Asians. You still haven't answered my initial Q. Why did you have to call out Asians post-match, but not Spanish people for Reggie or Argies for Romero? Can you explain that?

Because Son is by far the best Asian player so you actually get South Koreans turning up to games purely for him, Spain and Argentina have far better players than Reguilon or Romero, none of them are coming to Spurs matches to watch them.


(I will say I actually have no issue with people supporting Spurs because of Son .. it's only a sport, it ain't that deep..)

 

[icymanipulator]

Because Son is by far the best Asian player so you actually get South Koreans turning up to games purely for him, Spain and Argentina have far better players than Reguilon or Romero, none of them are coming to Spurs matches to watch them.


(I will say I actually have no issue with people supporting Spurs because of Son .. it's only a sport, it ain't that deep..)

Yep I do understand that, but I just found it odd that TylerB had to call out Asians out of the blue in his original post.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Christ the state of this. Admin have a word.

 

[iz futbal]

The bold is valid, I do thing his ability in 1on1 situations is by far his biggest asset, so trying to get the best out of that is probably the best idea.

But at 29 there's no reason you can't do a lot of tracking back. You're in your physical prime at that age, there's no deterioration of a players ability to do hard running by then, none at all. Barring having had severe injury problems or being a player who hasn't looked after themselves at all, that is.

While he can track back, we should still avoid getting him to track back so hes got all his energy to make forward runs.

 

[Deuterz]

While he can track back, we should still avoid getting him to track back so hes got all his energy to make forward runs.

Well yes, but all attacking players not named Ronaldo or Messi have to do their bit. Son is good but either of those guys, he ain't.

I posted a graph the other day which showed Son was down the bottom end of PL attackers when it comes to pressures, so he's not exactly running round like a headless chicken or playing like a left midfielder. He's doing about the same amount of work as Salah.

I think the main issue is he's not quite as good as some think. He's a really purple patchy player who is a fucking wonderful finisher but the rest of his game has plenty of flaws. Personally I think he's been pretty much rubbish this season but is escaping criticism because he signed a contract, Kane didn't and so Kane's become the scapegoat.

(that's not to say Kane doesn't deserve criticism .. he's been woeful and his lack of effort is telling)

 

[iz futbal]

Personally I think he's been pretty much rubbish this season but is escaping criticism because he signed a contract, Kane didn't and so Kane's become the scapegoat.

(that's not to say Kane doesn't deserve criticism .. he's been woeful and his lack of effort is telling)

Also Son has done a little bit more than Kane this season which is why hes getting away with it. People tend to focus on the worst ones first.

 

[Deuterz]

Also Son has done a little bit more than Kane this season which is why hes getting away with it. People tend to focus on the worst ones first.

Yeah that probably contributes. But against West Ham for example I thought Son was minimum as bad as Kane and you could argue worse, but all the heat fell on Kane. If Harry had missed that chance instead of laying it on a plate for Son, the knives would have been out.

I don't like it at all. Kane deserves criticism but scapegoating individual players for all our issues won't work. I think primarily they're all victims of a system which isn't getting the best out of them too, both of these guys are feeding on scraps, it's a miserable task.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

Personally I think he's been pretty much rubbish this season but is escaping criticism because he signed a contract, Kane didn't and so Kane's become the scapegoat.

No, it's because Son has got 3 crucial, match winning PL goals this season. We'd be fighting for relegation without him. And you could argue that he carried our attack in that Aston Villa game resulting in 3 points for us.

He's been a better overall player than Kane from the 18/19 season onwards. More non -penalty goal contributions than Kane, more goals against big 4 PL opposition, most game winning goals on Spurs, most assists among forwards in the PL etc. But I would agree and say that he's not world class, nor is Kane.

Positionally, I personally, I think he's better and more consistent playing as a CF and his numbers have provde that. I think he's got like 50 goal contributions in 50 apps playing there in his Spurs career.

 

[iz futbal]

No, it's because Son has got 3 crucial, match winning PL goals this season. We'd be fighting for relegation without him. And you could argue that he carried our attack in that Aston Villa game resulting in 3 points for us.

He's been a better overall player than Kane from the 18/19 season onwards. More non -penalty goal contributions than Kane, more goals against big 4 PL opposition, most game winning goals on Spurs, most assists among forwards in the PL etc.

Positionally, I personally, I think he's better and more consistent playing as a CF and his numbers have provde that. I think he's got like 50 goal contributions in 50 apps playing there in his Spurs career.

At this point Nuno doesnt have much to lose by playing Son CF and put two pacy players alongside him (with bergwin back). But stupid levy wont let that happen as that means Kanes value goes down even more and he wont get the 160 to 200 million hes looking for.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

At this point Nuno doesnt have much to lose by playing Son CF and put two pacy players alongside him (with bergwin back). But stupid levy wont let that happen as that means Kanes value goes down even more and he wont get the 160 to 200 million hes looking for.

I mean I think if we had two legit good wingers playing alongside him then Kane would have been dropped. Lucas and Berg do a lot of things well but scoring goals isn't one of them. We don't have enough goals without Kane, as bad as he's been.

 

[Deuterz]

No, it's because Son has got 3 crucial, match winning PL goals this season. We'd be fighting for relegation without him.

He's been a better overall player than Kane from the 18/19 season onwards. More non -penalty goal contributions than Kane, more goals against big 4 PL opposition, most game winning goals on Spurs, most assists among forwards in the PL etc.

Positionally, I personally, I think he's better and more consistent playing as a CF and his numbers have provde that. I think he's got like 50 goal contributions in 50 apps playing there in his Spurs career.

I'm not interested in discussing the bold. Been done to death. I'm not here to argue which one is the better player over the other, it's a tiresome debate. I'm only interested in their performances thus far this season, that's it.

Son has scored a FK which the keeper should have saved (and if Kane scored vs Watford you'd be dismissing them as rubbish) and a shot Ederson should have saved too. Aside from that a consolation prize vs Woolwich, and a tap in vs Newcastle Harry laid on a plate. His only actual good performance of the season was against Villa, you constantly rip in to Kane for having bad games but scoring, that's been Son.

Now obviously they're still goals and commendable, but he's been bad. Done very little in games overall, vs West Ham he wasted our best chance and otherwise was on the periphery. Same with the Chelsea game as well.

Better than Kane 100%, but Kane's had the wants the move to City excuse. Son has been here from the start of the season and committed, and so far has offered very little aside from a few scrappy goals. It's a poor season from him so far.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

I'm not interested in discussing the bold. Been done to death. I'm not here to argue which one is the better player over the other, it's a tiresome debate. I'm only interested in their performances thus far this season, that's it.

Son has scored a FK which the keeper should have saved (and if Kane scored vs Watford you'd be dismissing them as rubbish) and a shot Ederson should have saved too. Aside from that a consolation prize vs Woolwich, and a tap in vs Newcastle Harry laid on a plate. His only actual good performance of the season was against Villa, you constantly rip in to Kane for having bad games but scoring, that's been Son.

Now obviously they're still goals and commendable, but he's been bad. Done very little in games overall, vs West Ham he wasted our best chance and otherwise was on the periphery. Same with the Chelsea game as well.

Better than Kane 100%, but Kane's had the wants the move to City excuse. Son has been here from the start of the season and committed, and so far has offered very little aside from a few scrappy goals. It's a poor season from him so far.

When Kane scores 3 match winners and leads our attack against a decent opponent, I have no doubt that he wouldn’t be getting as much shit from the average Spurs fan.

But to say Son has been shit this season isn’t accurate. Has he been world class or elite? No. But is he contributing in line with what he’s always done? Yes.

4 PL goals in 8 apps and 3 game winners isn’t shit for a winger by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Deuterz]

When Kane scores 3 match winners and leads our attack against a decent opponent, I have no doubt that he wouldn’t be getting as much shit from the average Spurs fan.

But to say Son has been shit this season isn’t accurate. Has he been world class or elite? No. But is he contributing in line with what he’s always done? Yes.

4 PL goals in 8 apps and 3 game winners isn’t shit for a winger by any stretch of the imagination.

I love how your focus is entirely on goals when it comes to Son, when Kane scores some scrappy shite tap in's, he's done. Like come on let's get it nailed on here, do you care about a players all round performances if he scores or not? Because Son has scored a collection of terrible goals and mostly offered nothing otherwise.

In both of the last two games he's been poor. Against Newcastle he did very little outside of the tap in, vs West Ham the same minus said tap in. I'm not asking anyone to rip in to him the way Kane is getting shredded on here, but some consistency in the standards we apply to players would be awesome.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

I love how your focus is entirely on goals when it comes to Son, when Kane scores some scrappy shite tap in's, he's done. Like come on let's get it nailed on here, do you care about a players all round performances if he scores or not? Because Son has scored a collection of terrible goals and mostly offered nothing otherwise.

In both of the last two games he's been poor. Against Newcastle he did very little outside of the tap in, vs West Ham the same minus said tap in. I'm not asking anyone to rip in to him the way Kane is getting shredded on here, but some consistency in the standards we apply to players would be awesome.

Your original comment was that Kane was getting shit on but Son wasn’t because of Kanes antic over the summer. And my point was that Son isn’t getting shit on like Kane because he simply hasn’t been as bad as Kane. Period.

If Kane had a couple of tap ins and penalties, the average fan would still be calling him world class.

 

[icymanipulator]

No, it's because Son has got 3 crucial, match winning PL goals this season. We'd be fighting for relegation without him. And you could argue that he carried our attack in that Aston Villa game resulting in 3 points for us.

He's been a better overall player than Kane from the 18/19 season onwards. More non -penalty goal contributions than Kane, more goals against big 4 PL opposition, most game winning goals on Spurs, most assists among forwards in the PL etc. But I would agree and say that he's not world class, nor is Kane.

Positionally, I personally, I think he's better and more consistent playing as a CF and his numbers have provde that. I think he's got like 50 goal contributions in 50 apps playing there in his Spurs career.

Yep Son's been worth 8 EPL pts or something, the most in the league so far I read

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

Yep Son's been worth 8 EPL pts or something, the most in the league so far I read

Trust me. I’d be the first one to bash Son as I have in the past if I thought he should be dropped or deserved to be criticized. Has he bad poor games? Yes of course. Has he been shit? No far from it

 

[Deuterz]

Your original comment was that Kane was getting shit on but Son wasn’t because of Kanes antic over the summer. And my point was that Son isn’t getting shit on like Kane because he simply hasn’t been as bad as Kane. Period.

If Kane had a couple of tap ins and penalties, the average fan would still be calling him world class.

Has in the last couple of games, surprisingly barely a word from fans after either. All on Kane the last one even though it was Son who messed up the big chance and at least Kane forced a good save from a hard header. Where was Son the rest of the match?

The fact is the fans have decided on the guy they wanna pretend is the entire problem. Son and Kane could be equally bad for the next 3 games and we all know who would get far more criticism.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

Has in the last couple of games, surprisingly barely a word from fans after either. All on Kane the last one even though it was Son who messed up the big chance and at least Kane forced a good save from a hard header. Where was Son the rest of the match?

The fact is the fans have decided on the guy they wanna pretend is the entire problem. Son and Kane could be equally bad for the next 3 games and we all know who would get far more criticism.

And if Kane had 3 game winners and it was Son that had 1 goal in 8 apps, myself and others would be ripping Son, like we have done in the past.

Kane has been shit, period. He deserves to be criticized and sat.

What’s so difficult to comprehend.

 

[Deuterz]

Trust me. I’d be the first one to bash Son as I have in the past if I thought he should be dropped or deserved to be criticized. Has he bad poor games? Yes of course. Has he been shit? No far from it

Yeah, he has.

Two flappy keepers letting in shite shots and a tap in doesn't change that. Performances wise he's been barely involved in games whatsoever. Again you'd absolutely be saying Kane was playing shit based on the same performances.

These are the double standards at play here. Son is playing out wide, he's meant to be offering a threat beyond goals and he isn't. He's not a poacher. When it comes to Son you focus on his goals, when it comes to Kane you want individual efforts, all round performances and bells and whistles.

 

[Deuterz]

And if Kane had 3 game winners and it was Son that had 1 goal in 8 apps, myself and others would be ripping Son, like we have done in the past.

Kane has been shit, period. He deserves to be criticized and sat.

What’s so difficult to comprehend.

Can we stop saying game winners like it means anything? A keeper flapped in a free kick vs Watford mate, it doesn't mean he played any better. It wasn't some epic clutch moment. Are we including the tap in Kane laid on for him as a game winner too? If Ederson didn't have one of his few brain farts a season he isn't scoring there either.

Kane's been shit, yeah. Feel free to criticise, I certainly have. But boy are those match threads quiet when it comes to Son criticism vs the tirade of abuse Kane gets every time he takes a bad touch. Son selfishly shoots at the near post while a teammate waits for a tap in and we don't hear a peep. Shock.

Nothing, unless you wanna restructure my argument as 'Kane's been good and should play all the time' because the reality is you know Son's been garbage and you know you have hypocritical double standards which have been exposed

Both have been bad. Son less so, but he's had no excuse of a slow start and distraction of a transfer. It would be great if (especially in the last couple of games) we could start equally applying criticism, but we all know that won't happen.