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Ex-Spurs Player Harry Kane

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Igula said:
I had no issue selling him to City if the price was right and there was a plan to bring in a system, manager and players that would work.

If the plan was to bring in Nuno and Paratici then selling or keeping Kane means nothing because the players and plan is dogshit.
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“A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.”

See my friend you want to stay in a holding pattern until you have assurances of things working out. What you did not and have not accepted is that it was going to be shit with or without him. As I told you then we were 7th last season with him and will probably be not much worse without him...if at all worse. Empirical data (small sample size this season and I don't necessarily believe this but it is fact) suggest we were much better this season before he started playing. He presence or absence will not make much difference to our fortunes over the whole season. We were going to be mid-table with him and would have been mid-table without him.

The right price was always less than you or most on this board conjured because there was only one bidder and we are dealing with the cost of that transfer failure now. If you had accepted that plus the facts of Harry being a wholly dependent striker (where are the goals for the guy that creates out of nothing?) for which our shit team would not be creating tons of chances and placing them on that very tiny plate for him to miss 7 out of 10 (or whatever his conversion works out to) then I'm sure you would have been more willing to allow him to leave. Saying you'd accept something while thinking of an Austin Powers level sum that is/was unlikely to come sounds like a hedge.

Waiting for the perfect plan or situation instead of inacting a decent plan now can be more damaging in the long run. Long term mediocrity awaits those following your plan. He's going to be 1 year older and his limitations are on display for everyone to see...even those that are in denial whether they wish to admit it now or not. And we are another year away from the rebuild we need. Everyone is losing due to this situation.
 
todd1882 said:
“A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.”

See my friend you want to stay in a holding pattern until you have assurances of things working out. What you did not and have not accepted is that it was going to be shit with or without him. As I told you then we were 7th last season with him and will probably be not much worse without him...if at all worse. Empirical data (small sample size this season and I don't necessarily believe this but it is fact) suggest we were much better this season before he started playing. He presence or absence will not make much difference to our fortunes over the whole season. We were going to be mid-table with him and would have been mid-table without him.

The right price was always less than you or most on this board conjured because there was only one bidder and we are dealing with the cost of that transfer failure now. If you had accepted that plus the facts of Harry being a wholly dependent striker (where are the goals for the guy that creates out of nothing?) for which our shit team would not be creating tons of chances and placing them on that very tiny plate for him to miss 7 out of 10 (or whatever his conversion works out to) then I'm sure you would have been more willing to allow him to leave. Saying you'd accept something while thinking of an Austin Powers level sum that is/was unlikely to come sounds like a hedge.

Waiting for the perfect plan or situation instead of inacting a decent plan now can be more damaging in the long run. Long term mediocrity awaits those following your plan. He's going to be 1 year older and his limitations are on display for everyone to see...even those that are in denial whether they wish to admit it now or not. And we are another year away from the rebuild we need. Everyone is losing due to this situation.
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Not perfect plan a plan.

I think keeping Kane and the goals he brings, he still is our leading scorer across all competitions and only Son has more goals in the league than he does, is better than selling him and thinking that Moura, Bergwijn and Gil are great options to replace his goals.

I think you vastly overrate what I think is a good plan, I just want something slightly better than the complete dogshit we have seen from Nuno and Paratici. Had we brought in Potter, who I am not sure is a world beater manager, I would at least have faith that he would have a plan in how to properly attack with or without Kane. With Nuno I think the aforementioned Bergwijn-Son-Moura trio would be the order of the day with maybe a little Adama Traore dogshit thrown in if we were really adventurous with the Kane money.
 
Igula said:
I haven't let myself down or showed a lack of comprehension I have just pointed out that your premise that there was something good happening early on was complete BS.

A change is needed that change isn't Bergwijn-Son-Moura. We don't need to play guys who can't score more. Taking out 20+ goals from our team to add in guys who can't score 5 goals a season doesn't make us better.

We know the "experiment" wasn't going to be a success because never in the history of football has a team had success playing bad players. It has never happened.
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Well your erudite take on the attitude at the start of the season being positive… as complete BS was hardly articulated reasoning

That’s after you missed the obvious narrative in the first place so you’ll forgive me if I’ll remain of my original opinion

Now whether they may or may not be bad players is another debate because they currently are all we have. And I watched this group of players beat 3 other premier league teams …. One the champions …. Your excuse of them being disinterested doesn’t stop them being the champions and a very good win it was by your collective ‘bad players’

Another point you’re glaringly missing is that we can only remove one of these bad players by reintroducing Harry Kane, they do not become good players by Harry’s company

never in history has a team had success playing bad players when …. This is obviously hard to argue against so Ill skip past that but it’s completely reductive offering because the experiment was not doomed to failure just as it wasn’t guaranteed to succeed

The experiment was playing all these ‘bad players’ with a different tactic and outlook and by this rationale sometimes it can bring success….this is the comprehension I surprised slipped past you

The alternative is what we’ve had since …. And history had already pointed that out
 
RealCoolYid said:
Well your erudite take on the attitude at the start of the season being positive… as complete BS was hardly articulated reasoning
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It is the truth and that is all that matters.

RealCoolYid said:
That’s after you missed the obvious narrative in the first place so you’ll forgive me if I’ll remain of my original opinion
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I didn't miss the narrative at all I dismissed it as the BS that it was.

RealCoolYid said:
Now whether they may or may not be bad players is another debate because they currently are all we have. And I watched this group of players beat 3 other premier league teams …. One the champions …. Your excuse of them being disinterested doesn’t stop them being the champions and a very good win it was by your collective ‘bad players’
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There is no debate they are bad. The eye test shows it, their stats show it. They are flat out bad no debate to be had.

RealCoolYid said:
Another point you’re glaringly missing is that we can only remove one of these bad players by reintroducing Harry Kane, they do not become good players by Harry’s company
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I am not missing it, but in fact they do become better players because Kane is our best or 2nd best creator in the team and their lack of scoring becomes less of an issue when you have an elite striker in the side.

RealCoolYid said:
never in history has a team had success playing bad players when …. This is obviously hard to argue against so Ill skip past that but it’s completely reductive offering because the experiment was not doomed to failure just as it wasn’t guaranteed to succeed

The experiment was playing all these ‘bad players’ with a different tactic and outlook and by this rationale sometimes it can bring success….this is the comprehension I surprised slipped past you

The alternative is what we’ve had since …. And history had already pointed that out
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Again nothing slipped past me, I get what you are trying to argue it is just complete crap. Even in the games you claim it worked we created nothing. They showed nothing.

Lucas is 29 the past 2 PL seasons he had totals of 3 and 4 goals. He has zero PL goals in 9 games this year. Thinking a change in philosophy is going to magically change his ability at his age is ridiculous.
 
Iggy what great device do you have in mind ….. is it to build a team around hk.

That’s a tall order for a striker his age …. Remember this year is done

A revolution with Kane money would’ve been far more productive than an evolution without it
 
Igula said:
Not perfect plan a plan.
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How do you know a plan doesn't exist? And if it doesn't exist now then surely it didn't exist when the foundations were laid for the successful team you started following. So why not throw it all to chance again? Especially since we are going to be a mid-table team either way? At least this way we have some money in our pockets and don't look like sad sacks with a striker that doesn't want to be here.

And I'm pretty sure, as is common in situations where people throw up conditions like these, that whatever 'plan' we came up with you would find some reason to strike it down as not good enough. Why? Because your motives are not based in reason but emotion. You will only relent after the season is over, we are 12th, and you'd look like a fool to suggest otherwise. It happens all the time round here. What I'm saying is don't go full Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 here! You've seen the Dele thread.
Igula said:
I think keeping Kane and the goals he brings
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Where are the goals? He bag one today?
Igula said:
he still is our leading scorer across all competitions
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Wow, you're gonna elevate the ECL right now, huh? There's a term for the goalscorer of those goals but I'm gonna need KaneDomBadBoy KaneDomBadBoy 's help to remember it.
Igula said:
only Son has more goals in the league than he does
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He has 1 league goal FFS and that was against Newcastle who are going down. Ndom and PEH have as many league goals as the player we must keep at all costs. Sonny has 4.
Igula said:
is better than selling him and thinking that Moura, Bergwijn and Gil are great options to replace his goals.
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But that's not what anyone is thinking is it? It's only the argument you are adhering to because it works for you but it's disingenuous at best. Surely the plan would have been to purchase another striker...and since Daka and the guy from Celtic at Palace have more goals than Kane there was a possiblity to buy some goals is that's how you see football. Personally I would have bought some midfield first since I know that most strikers don't do anything other than tap them in...just like Harry.
Igula said:
I think you vastly overrate what I think is a good plan,
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I think you vastly overrate what most teams think of as a plan. So few do it.
Igula said:
I just want something slightly better than the complete dogshit we have seen from Nuno and Paratici.
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But we don't know what they had in store if Kane was sold. We'll never know.
Igula said:
With Nuno I think the aforementioned Bergwijn-Son-Moura
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Surely a striker would have been purchased. This strawman should die.
 
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Igula said:
It is the truth and that is all that matters.



I didn't miss the narrative at all I dismissed it as the BS that it was.



There is no debate they are bad. The eye test shows it, their stats show it. They are flat out bad no debate to be had.



I am not missing it, but in fact they do become better players because Kane is our best or 2nd best creator in the team and their lack of scoring becomes less of an issue when you have an elite striker in the side.



Again nothing slipped past me, I get what you are trying to argue it is just complete crap. Even in the games you claim it worked we created nothing. They showed nothing.

Lucas is 29 the past 2 PL seasons he had totals of 3 and 4 goals. He has zero PL goals in 9 games this year. Thinking a change in philosophy is going to magically change his ability at his age is ridiculous.
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Well it’s not the truth. I witnessed as did others a vigorous start to the season by every player until Harry’s reintroduction

You did miss it… my original post was about the mindset of the players. …. You started comparing Hendo to someone and him to her snd missed my point completely

You then got back on track and once grasping the rhetoric announced it as bullshit

Again whether they are bad or not is not the issue again. You can only swap one ‘good player’ in this case Harry Kane …. You still ultimately have the same group of ‘bad players’

But again you’ve removed the successful system, the style, the tactics snd ultimately the whole dynamic

This is the nettle you seem unable to grasp

If you want to carry on with this tired arse Harry Kane team far be it for me to disabuse you of this opinion.

But it hasn’t worked and it’s proving again not to work
 
What is this bollocks about a good start to the season? We were so so lucky to beat Wolves, they played us off the park. We were pretty lucky Man City didn't take their chances either, although that was a better performance than the Wolves game. We had some good results down to luck, the performances weren't there.

Once the luck run out, we started getting pumped. Kane or no Kane, the performances have been shit under Nuno in almost every game we play.
 
meaningless-friendly said:
What is this bollocks about a good start to the season? We were so so lucky to beat Wolves, they played us off the park. We were pretty lucky Man City didn't take their chances either, although that was a better performance than the Wolves game. We had some good results down to luck, the performances weren't there.

Once the luck run out, we started getting pumped. Kane or no Kane, the performances have been shit under Nuno in almost every game we play.
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We won the games

Changed the system

Started losing
 
meaningless-friendly said:
What is this bollocks about a good start to the season? We were so so lucky to beat Wolves, they played us off the park. We were pretty lucky Man City didn't take their chances either, although that was a better performance than the Wolves game. We had some good results down to luck, the performances weren't there.

Once the luck run out, we started getting pumped. Kane or no Kane, the performances have been shit under Nuno in almost every game we play.
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The Kane Cult strikes again with another commonly used BS narrative!

NDomBadBoy said:
Narrative #7 of the Kane Cult:

Harry Kane has carried shit teammates for years. It's amazing how many goals he's scored against Pacos, Mura and relegation level opposition for years given how bad his teammates have been.

If we play well, win or go to the Champions League final without Kane, it is purely due to luck or a fluke because of how shit his teammates are. If the sample size is over a 3.5+ year span with over 35+ games without Kane, then the statistics are irrelevant and must be disregarded.

:dembelelol:
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RealCoolYid said:
Well it’s not the truth. I witnessed as did others a vigorous start to the season by every player until Harry’s reintroduction

You did miss it… my original post was about the mindset of the players. …. You started comparing Hendo to someone and him to her snd missed my point completely

You then got back on track and once grasping the rhetoric announced it as bullshit

Again whether they are bad or not is not the issue again. You can only swap one ‘good player’ in this case Harry Kane …. You still ultimately have the same group of ‘bad players’

But again you’ve removed the successful system, the style, the tactics snd ultimately the whole dynamic

This is the nettle you seem unable to grasp

If you want to carry on with this tired arse Harry Kane team far be it for me to disabuse you of this opinion.

But it hasn’t worked and it’s proving again not to work
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Don't worry mate. When we win without Kane, it's always luck to those that want our club to be Kane FC.

Been that way since our run to the CL final. That run was all luck too.
 
RealCoolYid said:
We won the games

Changed the system

Started losing
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Of the 3 results at the start of the season, the 1-0 wins, the only one where we had any control was against Watford, where Kane also played. Wolves was a fluke win and Man City wasn't far behind in terms of being a lucky result.

Our best result/performance of the season was against Newcastle; Kane scoring and assisting and the change of system from the start of the season, as we played 4231 in this game with Ndombele at #10. The 2nd best performance was the 2-1 win against an out of form Villa. Again 4231 with Kane.

We have been crap this season, with Kane or without. We have won some games, with Kane or without. We have either beaten teams riding our luck (Man City and Wolves) or because the team is poor/in bad form (Watford, Villa, Newcastle). There was no "great start" unless you think lucky 1-0 wins are sustainable and as we see, they are not. We can't play crap teams every week and when we come up against a team that vaguely has their shit together, we get beat unless luck is on our side (eg Wolves game).
 
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