Ryan Mason

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100% this... And the stats are there to prove it:
Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho... Nothing special as players, but fantastic managers....

...and in the opposite corner:
Hoddle, Ardiles, Souness, Lampard, Roy Keane!!!

Yes, there are exceptions, but great players don't automatically make great managers, if anything, they have TOO MUCH expectation to live up to!!

Sam Allardyce is about the same level Manager as he was a Player.... He pretty much stayed consistent throughout!
Look at our three most successful managers - Arthur Rowe, Bill Nic and Keith Burkinshaw.

None of them what you would call "world class" as players. The first two solid enough team players with a single England cap each, the latter a Third and Fourth Division clogger at Workington and Scunthorpe
 
He wasn’t promising in the League cup final though

Abysmal more appropriate
He had a chance to become a Spurs legend by winning us some silverware and he blew it big time. He let us supporters down. From what I can gauge he doesn’t seem particularly intelligent or sound in judgement, has the charisma of a pickled herring and the voice of Mr Bean. Yes he played for us but didn’t pull up any trees so let’s not get caught up in the romance of that. It’s a tough world and harsh as it may sound there is no room for sentiment. Should be nowhere near the first team at this moment in time
 
He'd been in charge a week. Bale had not been in the lineup for most of the season under Jose, and offered very little running off the ball or pace at this point in his career. Playing Son/Lucas instead as players who will press and be more dangerous on the counter makes sense.

Playing Winks was, in my opinion, a mistake. I imagine he felt he was a player who could help provide stability, but he was wrong. But a coach of that age a week in to the job making mistakes doesn't mean he's not promising at all.
Winks had barely played as well. But he came straight into the team. It was just basic nepotism.
 
Yes that’s right we did score 4 twice under Mason. We had a certain Gareth Bale who scored 5 across those 2 games- remember, the same Gareth Bale dropped by Mason for Winks in the final

Why is this being repeated? Bale isn't a central midfielder. Winks playing had nothing to do with Bale playing or not.
 
He had a chance to become a Spurs legend by winning us some silverware and he blew it big time. He let us supporters down. From what I can gauge he doesn’t seem particularly intelligent or sound in judgement, has the charisma of a pickled herring and the voice of Mr Bean. Yes he played for us but didn’t pull up any trees so let’s not get caught up in the romance of that. It’s a tough world and harsh as it may sound there is no room for sentiment. Should be nowhere near the first team at this moment in time
Hes probably a very nice guy though. I really think he should be teaching younger academy players. He'd do very well with them.
 
Winks had barely played as well. But he came straight into the team. It was just basic nepotism.

I imagine Mason knew Bale was a better player than Lucas (who replaced him in the lineup) but as I said earlier, wanted the pace/tracking back Lucas offers. He brought on Bale in the game to try and turn it around .. I believe it was still 0-0 at that point, may be wrong.

Playing Winks was a mistake, it was a player he knew and perhaps wrongly rated. But our other CM options weren't great, and I can see why he may not have trusted Ndombele, who after a purple patch was drifting through games again.

But again, I'm less interested in micro-analysing personnel decisions he made, and more interested in what potential he may have as a coach. Even top managers make questionable decisions at times, so I don't think a couple of errors is a big deal.
 
Thats exactly what it was. He knew him. He played his friend.

If that's your interpretation .. fine. I can see why a 29 year old who had just come in may have gone with players he knew and had a relationship with. Misguided perhaps, but again, doesn't mean he doesn't have potential as a coach.
 
Why is this being repeated? Bale isn't a central midfielder. Winks playing had nothing to do with Bale playing or not.
How do you know that? He dropped the only midfielder who could spot a pass in Ndombele and a man who had won Champions leagues and cups on his own in Bale. Instead he played a player who had been poor all season and had played 17 mins of football in the last 6 pl matches.Yes Mason may have only been 29 as you keep saying but my 12 year old daughter could have told him that that wasn’t a wise thing to do
 
How do you know that? He dropped the only midfielder who could spot a pass in Ndombele and a man who had won Champions leagues and cups on his own in Bale. Instead he played a player who had been poor all season and had played 17 mins of football in the last 6 pl matches.Yes Mason may have only been 29 as you keep saying but my 12 year old daughter could have told him that that wasn’t a wise thing to do

Why would it? It's a central midfielder vs a winger ... why would Bale be dropped for Winks? He was dropped for a player in his actual position, which was RW .. so Lucas. Bale hadn't played too much under Jose, and it was a big game vs a side we were gunna play on the counter vs.

Ndombele had been half arsing it for ages. Winks wasn't close to the worst player in that final anyway, but he's an easy target as usual. I'm not subject to Mason's plans but I'm sure he felt Winks offered something, and was wrong. He won't be the first or last manager to make an error.

I also felt he did a lot right when he was in charge, as I've said. I enjoyed the way we played. That's far more important to me than relentlessly criticising him because he started Harry Winks.
 
fine. I can see why a 29 year old who had just come in may have gone with players he knew and had a relationship with
why does it matter if he knows them? hes there to win the game of football not play his mate in a cup final because he knows him over the better options. a teenager wouldnt of made that mistake, so being 29 doesnt let him off the hook. hes meant to be a football expert...yet thinks his mate little harry winks whos been stinking out the gaff for years is a better option over ndombele and a serial winner.

the scary thing is if it was sissoko you would give him credit for having a gameplan, little winks fits no gameplan as he has no strengths.
 
Why would it? It's a central midfielder vs a winger ... why would Bale be dropped for Winks? He was dropped for a player in his actual position, which was RW .. so Lucas. Bale hadn't played too much under Jose, and it was a big game vs a side we were gunna play on the counter vs.

Ndombele had been half arsing it for ages. Winks wasn't close to the worst player in that final anyway, but he's an easy target as usual. I'm not subject to Mason's plans but I'm sure he felt Winks offered something, and was wrong. He won't be the first or last manager to make an error.

I also felt he did a lot right when he was in charge, as I've said. I enjoyed the way we played. That's far more important to me than relentlessly criticising him because he started Harry Winks.
Bale was probably our most effective counter attacking player and certainly more effective at it than Moura with much more end product. He had just played a pivotal role in the game against Southampton a few days earlier.
Besides if you are going to play on the counter you need midfielders who can transition defence into attack quickly. A midfield of Hojbjerg and Winks isn’t gonna do that
 
Bale was probably our most effective counter attacking player and certainly more effective at it than Moura with much more end product. He had just played a pivotal role in the game against Southampton a few days earlier.
Besides if you are going to play on the counter you need midfielders who can transition defence in attack quickly. A midfield of Hojbjerg and Winks isn’t gonna do that

Bale didn't press, Moura does. Vs City you want players who press them. But yes .. the midfield wasn't ideal, but the options we had instead weren't either. Ndombele, as I've said, was in total non-entity mode for AGES before that final, and we started Lo Celso. We went with a midfield 3 to try and crowd them out, it didn't work entirely but they did struggle to create from open play.

The issue was we struggled to get out at all, or build attacks.
 
why does it matter if he knows them? hes there to win the game of football not play his mate in a cup final because he knows him over the better options. a teenager wouldnt of made that mistake, so being 29 doesnt let him off the hook. hes meant to be a football expert...yet thinks his mate little harry winks whos been stinking out the gaff for years is a better option over ndombele and a serial winner.

the scary thing is if it was sissoko you would give him credit for having a gameplan, little winks fits no gameplan as he has no strengths.

Again .. wasn't an option over Bale, unless you wanted Bale to play CM. He played him over Ndombele, Alli or Sissoko.

The obsession over this decision would make sense if Winks had put in a terrible performance. He was fine, and we had much worse performers on the day. Winks starting wasn't why we lost that final.
 
Again .. wasn't an option over Bale, unless you wanted Bale to play CM. He played him over Ndombele, Alli or Sissoko.

The obsession over this decision would make sense if Winks had put in a terrible performance. He was fine, and we had much worse performers on the day. Winks starting wasn't why we lost that final.
winks starting is the reason we lose most matches, hes bang in the middle of the park and incompetent. it creates a momentum we struggle to overcome.

you play to your squads strengths, bale is a proven winner with bags of ability, you dont bench him for a midfielder whos going to give momentum to the opposition just by being on the pitch.

any system with bale or ndombele in is better than any system with little winks in.
 
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Bale didn't press, Moura does. Vs City you want players who press them. But yes .. the midfield wasn't ideal, but the options we had instead weren't either. Ndombele, as I've said, was in total non-entity mode for AGES before that final, and we started Lo Celso. We went with a midfield 3 to try and crowd them out, it didn't work entirely but they did struggle to create from open play.

The issue was we struggled to get out at all, or build attacks.
As I said in an earlier post. Bale had the most goal involvements per minutes on the pitch in the whole PL- and it wasn’t even close. And that was despite being in a painfully disjointed and negative team. In fact in all of the PL history with all of the fabulous players over nearly 30 years Bale had the 2nd highest goal involvements per minutes on the pitch ever last season. Bale is clinical and much that I admire Lucas effort he is anything but clinical. If you are hoping to play on the break then you have to have end product. In all honesty If you want to win a cup final against a really good side then you play your best players full stop. Mason got it very wrong
 
In the opposite corner should really be Guardiola, Zidane, Conte?
Simeone too. Ancelotti was also a damn good player in his day.

Beckenbauer won a World Cup, though I don’t know if he was actually a great manager. Deschamps, similarly.

Zidane is surely the greatest player ever to be a truly great manager, though he still has his doubters.
Hmm I forgot Cruyff. Him too.
Don't get me wrong, there are fantastic playersplayers who have gone on to make fantastic coaches, and I suppose, given the thousands of professional footballers who have played at the top level, only a select few are going to hit both criteria!

But I think the point was more that just because a player was 'average' or journeyman, doesn't mean he won't make a decent coach...

There are probably more great coaches out there who were average players, than world class players who go onto become world class managers...

Be interesting to see whether the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, M'Bappe, Neymar or Bale ever go into coaching when they retire...
In the main, I think not...
Like Beckham, they probably don't need the stress of going into management, and can afford to do something else with their 'legacy' ...like own a franchise club!!
 
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