Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool | Sunday 19 Dec | 16:30 KO

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The handball goal to them and the penalty ignored to us just before, has been relatively ignored (unsurprisingly) by the media, therefore the agenda moves to Liverpool being the victims.
Control the narrative and the truth disappears.
 
Ndombele wasn't outstanding by any stretch but showed exactly what he's capable of when played in his ideal position, setting up the first goal with a great through ball in that inside right channel. That's exactly the type of move we saw a lot of Lyon.

He did virtually nothing else though.

Alli fucked away some great situations/chances but at least got into those positions - which I think is easier to do and more dangerous when ghosting in from the deeper L8 position than when you have Moura trying to head down dribble his way through 8 people with the ball as a WF. You could equally have Lo Celso in the Alli position, Skipp/Hojberg in the Winks position and it could still function. Winks possibly had one of the better games he's had in a Spurs shirt, certainly with the ball at least. Some of his passing was really incisive.

Assist aside; Ndombele was the worst of the 3. I'm not against 352... I advocate for a 3 man MF...... But your proposal takes away all that whats good about today's MF. Comes back to what I was saying before; Skipp isn't Kante and even if he was, Kante still has hard working players around him..... Ndombele & Gio just ghost about and have the odd moment here and there.

I challenged you before (but you seemed to decline); name me one EPL MF that is set up with 1 x DM + 2 x luxury players as #8 and is relatively successful....?
 
I'm still absolutely gutted we fucked so many great chances away. Tactically, whilst not being perfect, we out smarted them today. Klopp's post match was disingenuous bollocks.

First half, we were a bit lethargic at times without the ball, and allowed them too many opportunities to put balls into our box, but even during this half we really didn't allow them the craft much of quality, whilst creating some cracking situations ourselves.

Second half they were absolutely spent, virtually from the get go. They'd fucked themselves out first half and had nothing left, energy or ideas. You could see they'd stopped pressing us high up completely. We turned a 31/69 possession first half into 58/42 in the second half. Last half hour it was 66/34. (And even before the sending off it was 55/45).

Was good to see the 352 today, little glimpses of why many of us think this is the way forward. Even with three midfielders who many of us have issues with, none of whom are great without the ball, none had played loads of football this year, it was tactically so much better IMO than the 343.

Ndombele wasn't outstanding by any stretch but showed exactly what he's capable of when played in his ideal position, setting up the first goal with a great through ball in that inside right channel. That's exactly the type of move we saw a lot of Lyon.

Alli fucked away some great situations/chances but at least got into those positions - which I think is easier to do and more dangerous when ghosting in from the deeper L8 position than when you have Moura trying to head down dribble his way through 8 people with the ball as a WF. You could equally have Lo Celso in the Alli position, Skipp/Hojberg in the Winks position and it could still function. Winks possibly had one of the better games he's had in a Spurs shirt, certainly with the ball at least. Some of his passing was really incisive. The Son/Kane pivot caused plenty of problems and should have yielded more than it did. Good effort and movement from both, but both were incredibly wasteful.

Kane was lucky not to be redded, they were unlucky not to get a pen, but even if we ignore Alli's pen, the foul on Wink's was equally blatant. And the bottom line is, we created much better and much more situations and chances than they did.

Fucking gutting, isn't it?

We had them. The way the game looked at times reminded of Villa's 8-2 win against them, we were cutting them open almost every time a ball was played in behind and were constantly forcing errors from them. The only problem was that we were nowhere close to as ruthless as Villa were that day, and whenever we had chances to put the game away we squandered them, had we managed to go 2-0 up I honestly think the momentum stays with us and we go on to win by 3 or 4.

The draw honestly feels like a loss. And on paper it shouldn't, we've come a long way performances wise since Nuno, the team is playing with energy and we have structure, there's plenty to be excited and happy about. But jesus christ it was still so Spursy at times, so many opportunities to bring the hammer down on them wasted. Not even just in front of goal, there were lots of occasions where all it took was one pass of quality and they were cut open.
 
He did virtually nothing else though.



Assist aside; Ndombele was the worst of the 3. I'm not against 352... I advocate for a 3 man MF...... But your proposal takes away all that whats good about today's MF. Comes back to what I was saying before; Skipp isn't Kante and even if he was, Kante still has hard working players around him..... Ndombele & Gio just ghost about and have the odd moment here and there.

I challenged you before (but you seemed to decline); name me one EPL MF that is set up with 1 x DM + 2 x luxury players as #8 and is relatively successful....?

City play with De Bruyne/Silva/Rodri in midfield regularly. The former two offer a lot of energy & pressing, but they're not defensively sound and they are primarily attacking/creative players. I saw running/pressing from Ndombele today and Gio does the same, that kind of thing is something which under a proper manager is very coachable.

But on the flip side, we are not Man City. The average level of technical ability in that team is insane, which allows them to monopolise ball possession, which in turn means less need for more defensively sound players.
 
City play with De Bruyne/Silva/Rodri in midfield regularly. The former two offer a lot of energy & pressing,

Which neither of TN nor GLC can be relied upon to do. They'll often have Gundoghan as one of the #8s instead too though.

but they're not defensively sound and they are primarily attacking/creative players.

Pep has got all 3 of his MF tracking and covering lots of ground.... All his players work like crazy.

I saw running/pressing from Ndombele today and Gio does the same,

Again; can't be trusted to though.... Especially not consistently.

that kind of thing is something which under a proper manager is very coachable.

.....Only with the right mentality, but unfortunately..... (Yeh, you know the rest. :( )

But on the flip side, we are not Man City. The average level of technical ability in that team is insane, which allows them to monopolise ball possession, which in turn means less need for more defensively sound players.

Agreed on that part, but once again the willingness to put a shift in IS there as a pre-requisite (Pep ain't picking you otherwise).



I know it was the dream when we signed them but 3 years later it's all too obvious that a MF of:

Ndombele / DM / Gio

.......Is just hanging the DM (and possibly the WB and or CBs too!) out to dry.
 
Which neither of TN nor GLC can be relied upon to do. They'll often have Gundoghan as one of the #8s instead too though.



Pep has got all 3 of his MF tracking and covering lots of ground.... All his players work like crazy.



Again; can't be trusted to though.... Especially not consistently.



.....Only with the right mentality, but unfortunately..... (Yeh, you know the rest. :( )



Agreed on that part, but once again the willingness to put a shift in IS there as a pre-requisite (Pep ain't picking you otherwise).



I know it was the dream when we signed them but 3 years later it's all too obvious that a MF of:

Ndombele / DM / Gio

.......Is just hanging the DM (and possibly the WB and or CBs too!) out to dry.

I think TN and GLC could press, if they were motivated. Pressing mostly comes from hard work on the training ground and a coach who the players buy in to. Most players don't arrive at clubs pressing machines, they're coached that way. It may be that neither of the aforementioned pair really fancy it under Conte (or at all) but it's well within their ability as athletes.

So hey, maybe further down the line we'll all be shocked and they'll both be pressing like mad and Conte's favourites .. I do doubt it, though.
 
I think TN and GLC could press, if they were motivated. Pressing mostly comes from hard work on the training ground and a coach who the players buy in to. Most players don't arrive at clubs pressing machines, they're coached that way. It may be that neither of the aforementioned pair really fancy it under Conte (or at all) but it's well within their ability as athletes.

So hey, maybe further down the line we'll all be shocked and they'll both be pressing like mad and Conte's favourites .. I do doubt it, though.
GLC can't press?

What?
 
GLC can't press?

What?

I didn't say he can't press. There is a difference between just running around like a headless chicken and effective pressing as part of a unit which requires good coaching, though.

The issue for Lo Celso there is that he spends far too much time on the treatment table or with Argentina.
 
We should have beaten them.

Previously we go away failing to beat that lot often focussing on something like Sissoko missing a sitter, Robertson getting away with assault, penalties being gifted to them - but today it was different. We made chance after chance and didn't take them, it wasn't down to a single moment.

When I saw the team sheet with Sessegnon, Winks, Dele & Sanchez starting it didn't fill me with confidence - and although it's not nice to say it, every time I see Lo Celso not starting when available to I'm relieved. I'm putting my neck on the line here, but I was actually pleased to see Winks starting ahead of him, and he justified that selection imo.

BUT there's no point falsely believing some of those players are good enough long term because Conte can get the odd tune out of them. What stands out for me is that we went toe to toe with one of the best sides around right now, creating more and deserving to win with a far inferior set of players.
Give Klopp the chance of taking any of our players for his side and I think maybe Son would get rotated at a push.. otherwise I don't think any of our squad would make it there.. Kane in his heyday maybe but doesn't really suit their style of play.

That was a performance to make other sides think 'hang on, are this Tottenham lot actually threatening top 4 again?'
The game had me feeling delighted, aggrieved, anxious, excited, disappointed, passionate , worried etc.. all the emotions I used to experience watching Spurs pre Mourinho.

I'm looking forward to games again. We're back!!

COYS!
 
Liverpool and Klopp dudded is all i read online.

The cunts up the road put a few past Leeds and its " Arteta finally showing they are top 4 fighters ".
Where is the praise for our Club today ? Looking for a positive review is like...

9e67a1feb0640ba41cc923b33a88800f2e1bdef2.gifv
 
We should have beaten them.

Previously we go away failing to beat that lot often focussing on something like Sissoko missing a sitter, Robertson getting away with assault, penalties being gifted to them - but today it was different. We made chance after chance and didn't take them, it wasn't down to a single moment.

When I saw the team sheet with Sessegnon, Winks, Dele & Sanchez starting it didn't fill me with confidence - and although it's not nice to say it, every time I see Lo Celso not starting when available to I'm relieved. I'm putting my neck on the line here, but I was actually pleased to see Winks starting ahead of him, and he justified that selection imo.

BUT there's no point falsely believing some of those players are good enough long term because Conte can get the odd tune out of them. What stands out for me is that we went toe to toe with one of the best sides around right now, creating more and deserving to win with a far inferior set of players.
Give Klopp the chance of taking any of our players for his side and I think maybe Son would get rotated at a push.. otherwise I don't think any of our squad would make it there.. Kane in his heyday maybe but doesn't really suit their style of play.

That was a performance to make other sides think 'hang on, are this Tottenham lot actually threatening top 4 again?'
The game had me feeling delighted, aggrieved, anxious, excited, disappointed, passionate , worried etc.. all the emotions I used to experience watching Spurs pre Mourinho.

I'm looking forward to games again. We're back!!

COYS!
Remember, this was a weakened Liverpool squad. Some of their best players were missing.
 
The issue for Lo Celso there is that he spends far too much time on the treatment table or with Argentina.

His biggest issue seems to be that he's dog shit every time he puts on a Spurs shirt, except for half a season.
This being his 3rd season, being a valuable player for us 1/5th of his time here is simply not good enough for me. I'm tired of him tbh.
 
I think TN and GLC could press, if they were motivated. Pressing mostly comes from hard work on the training ground and a coach who the players buy in to. Most players don't arrive at clubs pressing machines, they're coached that way. It may be that neither of the aforementioned pair really fancy it under Conte (or at all) but it's well within their ability as athletes.

So hey, maybe further down the line we'll all be shocked and they'll both be pressing like mad and Conte's favourites .. I do doubt it, though.

The pair's apparent lack of determination to impose themselves since the summer has been a huge disappointment.

Gio is more of a puzzle to me..... Dunno what his f'kn problem is to be frank. He mentally checked out at some point tho'. Less gifted than TN, but initially suggested himself to be a useful mix-bag of attributes that ought to suit the EPL.

Ndombele however.... The pattern seems to be the more he runs the less he gets on the ball and the less impactful he is (too gassed to assert his ability?).... He looked bright to begin with, but faded really badly today; trotting about a bit but somewhat hidden in plain-sight. Sadly you can't have Mesut Ozil in CM..... It's just never gonna work in this league.
 
Liverpool and Klopp dudded is all i read online.

The cunts up the road put a few past Leeds and its " Arteta finally showing they are top 4 fighters ".
Where is the praise for our Club today ? Looking for a positive review is like...

9e67a1feb0640ba41cc923b33a88800f2e1bdef2.gifv
I’d give the slight edge to Woolwich right now but after the window, I can’t help but think that we are going to be a real contender to crack to top 4. We are still a Son injury away from being a mid table team. Need depth and options. It’s a long season.
 
I’d give the slight edge to Woolwich right now but after the window, I can’t help but think that we are going to be a real contender to crack to top 4. We are still a Son injury away from being a mid table team. Need depth and options. It’s a long season.

Mate, I think Woolwich will be exposed.

Give Antonio time .
 
Remember, this was a weakened Liverpool squad. Some of their best players were missing.
Maybe I haven't followed this thread closely enough to realise if this is a sarcastic comment - but for me we were missing half of our outfield 'best xi'.

One of our biggest complaints as a Spurs community has been our lack of investment in real squad depth. We had to pluck half the starting outfield players from that 'depth' and out played a Liverpool side missing 3-4 of theirs? They have a far better starting xi and overall squad investment than us.
 
Maybe I haven't followed this thread closely enough to realise if this is a sarcastic comment - but for me we were missing half of our outfield 'best xi'.

One of our biggest complaints as a Spurs community has been our lack of investment in real squad depth. We had to pluck half the starting outfield players from that 'depth' and out played a Liverpool side missing 3-4 of theirs? They have a far better starting xi and overall squad investment than us.
Ye dont have to follow it too closely to realise who not to engage with
 
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