• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Transfers January 2022 - Transfer Window

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Welp, was THAT my claim? Or was it...

Are those two statements the same? You know, "not press resistant" and "not a very press resistant player" relative to his technical ability. I would argue that you are setting up a strawman while mischaracterizing my point.

Please debate in good faith...

Now, Pogba can escape and run off with the ball but he is rarely under control and often it ends up with him in an awful challenge. He can be harassed quite easily into an error while on the ball. Search any Liverpool-ManU game for incontrovertible proof. And though folks of bad faith may be tempted to shout "but that's liverpool blah blah blah", there are many players that don't brick it against Liverpool.


So what does this point have to do with anything? What is the correlation between international football success (with the most talented team on the planet) and him 'thriving' anywhere else he goes? Again, one of my points is that you are talking about a player that you have not identified why they suck in the PL. You say it's motivation. You are wrong. Folks say similar about Dele and why things are going wrong for him. but they are wrong too.

If Pogba goes to italy he will be provided the time and space he needs to play his game. If he goes anywhere else he might have problems depending on the situation/setup/supporting talent.

He's press resistant relative to any technical ability. I'd say he's one of the more press resistant players out there. Whenever he's dispossessed it's almost never because he's pressed, but because he's being overly elaborate (As is the case with the situation you describe..) and tries to take on too much. He creates problems for himself by being too much of an individual. I see that less for France, so can put it down at least in part to the system at United, and him feeling too much of a burden to create. Sometimes he doesn't even look particularly bothered at all in a United shirt.

If you're starting pretty much every game (and probably the top performer, whenever I watch France anyhow..) for the best NT in the world, you're probably pretty good. I don't think there's any real comparison with how Dele looks and how Pogba looks. Dele wouldn't be capable of doing what Pogba does for France in a million years. There's a reason he's being picked up by Everton whereas if Pogba was to be available for almost no fee, a top club would certainly pick him up.
 
Their talent advantage is overrated. England have a comparable starting 11 in terms of quality to France.
I've now seen how you rate players. I neither agree with nor trust your take on this...mostly because it is wrong. I'd wager that France are 2-deep better at most (if not every) position on the field than England.
The only players that would thwart that claim is possibly Sterling and Walker (older now but still good...but RB is a problem for France)

Where France are exceptional is their depth of talent,
Yes, and wouldn't that be part of an overwhelming talent advantage? Take your time.

Very few to no international teams play particularly free flowing football. It's about being pragmatic and for the top sides allowing the individual quality to show. Pragmatic football is easier and simpler, and international coaches don't get much time to work with the players. Which isn't to say Deschamps is a great manager (not many great managers do international football) but he's done a more than acceptable job.
Platitudinous drivel. I understand this but that doesn't preclude a better brand of pragmatic football FFS. You can play Nuno ball or you can play Conte ball - both 'pragmatic'. Surely, you understand that implicitly considering we've jsut gone through it? So stop arguing the extremes as if that's my point. There are many levels from Deschamps' stuff to progressive football. And of those many levels, moving up a level or two wouldn't hurt.
 
Proactive is not the same as expansive.

Agree. But I think your point about "expansive" was moot. As I've said in my answer above, there's plenty of scope between what Deschamps has been doing and "expansive" - with the squad he has he should be capable of being tactically strong but much, much more proactive and less reactive.


Germany were not proactive anyway. They were fortunate not to be beaten by Algeria, played out a deathly boring victory over France and an incredibly mediocre final against Argentina. The only sparkle was an insanely good win against Brazil in the semis.

The German team was still more proactive than anything Deschamps has served up.

Spain were all about control which was my point.

Control, fine. See above. Still proactive not reactive.


If you didn’t see the most entertaining final in decades then I’m sorry. Win against Argentina was probably the game of the tournament. And beating Uruguay and Belgium with strong defensive performances and a clinical edge is exactly what it takes to win a big tournament.

But it wasn't entertaining because of Deschamps tactics or coaching. It was a victory of individual moments, and a vastly superior group of individuals.
 
I think we’re coping just fine.

Right back is the only position where England are stronger.

Lloris>Pickford
Varane and Kimpembe > Maguire and whoever
Théo Hernandez > Shaw

Kante and Pogba > Rice and Hendo

Mbappé and Coman > Foden and Sterling

Benzema = Kane

Not really possible to do this silly game because we play different formations but France better or equal everywhere except right back.

If football were played with 5 right backs then England would win everything 😂😂
Benzema >> Kane. Just look at the last big tourney and how each showed out.
 
I've now seen how you rate players. I neither agree with nor trust your take on this...mostly because it is wrong. I'd wager that France are 2-deep better at most (if not every) position on the field than England.
The only players that would thwart that claim is possibly Sterling and Walker (older now but still good...but RB is a problem for France)


Yes, and wouldn't that be part of an overwhelming talent advantage? Take your time.


Platitudinous drivel. I understand this but that doesn't preclude a better brand of pragmatic football FFS. You can play Nuno ball or you can play Conte ball - both 'pragmatic'. Surely, you understand that implicitly considering we've jsut gone through it? So stop arguing the extremes as if that's my point. There are many levels from Deschamps' stuff to progressive football. And of those many levels, moving up a level or two wouldn't hurt.

And I think the opposite and that you're wrong .. on loads of things. Including Kane, as we know. So where does that get us? Also, just Walker? Pick any of the fifty English right backs for that spot.

Sure .. so why would the manager pick Pogba with all that talent? The manager will pick the player who is the best. It's not like France play every national side they face off the pitch and Pogba just has to cruise, he's often the standout player, and he's picked ahead of brilliant footballers.

France play a style of football which works. A lot of football hipsters want to see pretty triangles, I get it. They keep games tight and they wait for a moment of individual talent, and more often than not it works and it wins them the world cup or the nations league. Or it gets them in to a final. But I'm sure if they started playing free flowing stuff they'd blow every competition to bits.
 
They played the most entertaining World Cup final since
Doesn't speak to the quality of football though.
I think you’re exaggerating how badly France play.
The best way to state it IMO is that relative to the talent on offer their brand of football is shite...and that points to the coach.
And as you say the talent is unreal. It’s eye watering.
I think so but you might want to have a word with this guy...
Their talent advantage is overrated.
IDK what he's smoking but he's a bastard for not sharing!!!!
 
Doesn't speak to the quality of football though.

The best way to state it IMO is that relative to the talent on offer their brand of football is shite...and that points to the coach.

I think so but you might want to have a word with this guy...

IDK what he's smoking but he's a bastard for not sharing!!!!

The amount of overrated French talent in recent years I've seen wilt when they come to England is all that is required, no narcotics.

Great NT. Best in terms of depth. Not the superteam well above the rest behemoth its made out to be, because half the players hyped up are nowhere near as good when they step in to the big leagues.
 
Croatia dominated the ball, played better football. France parked a bus, were also given a very dubious penalty. two breakaway goals in 6 minutes killed Croatia, who were dominating the game but seemed to lose concentration and rhythm after the break for the pitch invaders.

Look, I think this French squad over the last 6 years has been one of the most talented, all over the pitch, that I've seen (I'm 55). (for the record I think Deuterz Deuterz is mad saying he wouldn't swap most of the England players). As todd1882 todd1882 said, there's a huge chasm between the totally passive, risk averse shit Deschamps has been serving up and "expansive" gung ho foolishness.

It's taken Deschamps 5 years to even pluck up the bollocks to play proper FB's instead of CB's as FB's, and he's only doing that by squeezing another CB onto the pitch in a back 3.
Wow, this is 100% how I feel. I hate how Deschamos has a squad with that quality playing!
 
About the cope bit. Nothing else.

The frogs are nowhere near as good as the football hipsters think they are. Silky on the ball but prone to collapsing under pressure.
...someone is missing Sammy!!!! See sudoku ? This is the result of your actions to get Sammy binned. RD doesn't know what to do with all his bad faith arguments. What was once concentrated into the Kane thread is now spilling into others.
 
I'll remember this and come back again when an English team wins the CL yet again. And will do for the next 2-3 seasons as well.

Two all English finals in the space of 3 seasons. There is no debate that the Premier League is currently the super league of Europe and head and shoulders above the rest. None at all. Not so long ago it was La Liga, so maybe in 5 years it'll shift, who knows.

You get cocky about the EPL after they win two of three CLs. Laughable how little that means. Please go back in history and take a look at LaLiga’s run from 1999 to 2018 and get back to us with your arrogance about the EPL.
 
Last edited:
Platitudinous drivel.
shots-fired-eastbound-and-down.gif
 
You get cocky about the EPL after they win two of three CLs. Laughable how little that means. Please go back in history and take a look at LaLiga’s run from 1999 to 1998 and get back to us with your arrogance about the EPL.

I don't need to go back in history when I literally mentioned how dominant La Liga was for a while. England will be the exact same for the next 4-5 years, the signs are all there. Also, you'd have to go back in time for a 1999-1998 run. Tough.

Not just the winners either, two all English finals contested. Including an all English EL final and an English EL finalist last year as well. That's ludicrous dominance, and currently has the Premier League well ahead on co-efficient rankings and only rising.
 
...someone is missing Sammy!!!! See sudoku ? This is the result of your actions to get Sammy binned. RD doesn't know what to do with all his bad faith arguments. What was once concentrated into the Kane thread is now spilling into others.

I don't think sudoku can be credited with that, as good as his arguments in favour of our lord and saviour were. Pretty sure GOAT GOAT was the Sammy slayer. Or honestly he ended up falling on his own sword in the end.
 
I don't think sudoku can be credited with that, as good as his arguments in favour of our lord and saviour were. Pretty sure GOAT GOAT was the Sammy slayer. Or honestly he ended up falling on his own sword in the end.
Nope. I'm gonna blame GOAT GOAT . Always knew that guy was a cunt!!!!

J/K Goat but you can still suck it!!!!:contepoint:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top