Levy / ENIC

[Crispin]

Oh and I forgot property developmwnts

”all these property developer nets - golf courses, cinema complexes, etc - don’t benefit THFC, only ENIC”
No. the developments aRe owned by THFC or its subsidiaries, they are not owned by ENIC. The beneficiary of the investments is THFC not ENIC. Even if THFC was selling the land to ENIC for redevelopment ENIC would have to pay fair value per accounting rules. You can’t sell land worth 5million quid to another entity for a $1. That’s dumb if people are suggesting this.

I haven’t looked into the details but I can guarantee you that THFC are not sitting around saying “I’ve got this 200mil sitting in pocket, I could either buy a new first team or build a cinema complex. Wow, how awesome would a cinema complex be? When is the next Fast and the Furious movie due out? We have to get it done by then!”

These developments will be largely funded by good debt. When they are operational they will add to the revenue received by THFC for non-footballing activities. This is a good thing.

Like any good accountant you are playing with companies.

THFC is owned by ENIC. Owned by TAVISTOCK.

TAVISTOCK makes the money. Not THFC.

Profit earned by THFC goes to ENIC. Which goes to TAVISTOCK.

THFC is not a plc. Its a fiefdom.

 

[Ulrika Jonsson]

Do you think they make good decisions on the football side? Are we a competent well run, ambitious club in regards to football? Do we have any plan?

Good intelligent question.

i think they have built us and made us competitive. We were awful in the 90’s before them. I dont think you can pay homage to “Poch’s team” without acknowledging the people behind them.

But, I am as frustrated as anyone with what I’ve seen over the last 3 years. I would be happy for a change because the footballing side hasn’t been good at all. But I don’t want George Soros or another asset stripper. And I don’t want dirty money from The Middle East or Russia. So what’s left? Maybe the Israel Pension Fund can buy us and we can fight the Man City and Newcastle at their own game? And we can legitimately re-adopt the yids tag!

 

[stevee]

Perhaps, but we're meant to be a football club and so often that appears to be the absolute bottom of our owners priorities. The last 5 years especially has been tantamount to gross incompetence. The club needs a change, 21 years is too long for anyone.

This is another line that gets trotted out time after time, that the team is the bottom of enics priorities.

If that was the case we wouldn't of been paying out millions of pounds on players.
Fair enough, those players have been shite and don't give a shit, but still.

 

[Deuterz]

But it's not "consistently half empty".

Yeah, for now. Our slides only just begun. Kane’s off in the summer, how long do you think Son stays?

We’re headed on a direct course for mid table mediocrity. You don’t pack out 60k+ stadiums with that level of football and no top tier players.

People are going to lose interest. And even if they don’t it’ll be even more day trippy than it is now. Shit football in a silent stadium watching all our rivals outplay us and win trophies.

Tremendous success, thanks ENIC.

 

[cretinousgoat]

Nail on the head with both points. The ones who keep defending the cretin should be ashamed.

 

[stevee]

Like any good accountant you are playing with companies.

THFC is owned by ENIC. Owned by TAVISTOCK.

TAVISTOCK makes the money. Not THFC.

Profit earned by THFC goes to ENIC. Which goes to TAVISTOCK.

THFC is not a plc. Its a fiefdom.

THFC is owned by Enic.

Enic do not take monies from THFC

 

[Archie]

I’ve read a lot of posts today in this thread and I got to about 3 pages back and got fed up reading posts from people who have clearly not been anywhere near the Finance world. I wish I could pin this to the thread so the same people could read it before they keep making dumb posts.

I will try and do it as a FAQ

”ENIC are bleeding THFC dry”
no. In company laws you can’t just move money from one company to another so this is bs. ENIC only get from THFC:
- dividends. I bought shares in THFC in the early 80’s when it floated on the stock exchange. I still hold them today. There has not been any dividends paid to shareholders in the last 20 years
- Capital growth. ENIC bought THFC for less than 100million quid. It’s now worth north of 2billion when they sell. But until they sell this is just paper money.
- Levy salary - Levy owns nearly 30% of ENIC and draws a salary from THFC of circa 5mil. This is probably a bit on the high side for a company turning over half a billion but not majorly.

”Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd is a different entity to THFC and THFC gets no benefit from this”
No. Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd is owned by THFC. THFC is the beneficial owner of Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd.
It is a different entity because of the debt used to finance the build of the stadium and represents an efficient tax structure. Theoretically in this structure the debt is solely Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd’s and doesn‘t impact THFC ie. in theory the club could let Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd go insolvent and the club keeps going. I say in theory for a reason.

“The debt from the stadium is killing THFC‘s transfer plans”
No. The stadium debt is “good debt” in that it is largely at fixed interest payed over a very long period of time. Think of it like a mortgage. “Bad debt” is short term and generally at high interest rates - think of it like car finance or even credit card debt. It is healthy for companies to have good debt - all publicly listed companies have it.

”ENIC have put no money into THFC”
This is partially (mostly) true. ENIC are not a Jack Walker or Abramovich who invest their personal fortunes into their clubs because they love it. Very few owners do.

What ENIC has done is acted as guarantor on the debt required by Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd to build the stadium. Neither THFC nor Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd have the financial status to get the stadium built without Joe Lewis bank rolling it.

“We should never have built the stadium but invested in the team instead”
No. this isn’t an either / or question. It’s different. Stadium Debt v Player Investment is the equivalent of Mortgage Debt v Credit Card Debt.

All of the comments so far have been pretty factual but here is a personal opinion. Where would we be if THFC (with ENIC help) hadn’t built the stadium? We would still be in a 100 year old rickety stadium with 35k capacity. Our rivals including Woolwich are in 60k+ seat stadiums. Jesus, even frigging Everton are planning to build a 50k+ stadium.

What would have staying at WHL meant for us long term where we collect nearly half the match day revenue of our rivals? Certainly bottom half of the Premier League with the occasional relegation thrown in.


Im going to start a frigging “Ask UJ” thread to give factual responses to all the idiots who frequent this site.

So anybody that cares about the team and actually support Tottenham Hotspur Fooball club are idiots. We have seen owners past and present and Levy-Lewis-Enic are by far the least successful. I,m talking about on field success. Levy has made mistake after mistake, not backing the managers at the right time, hiring a dreadful scouting team thus wasting money on bad transfers. Not getting rid of the deadwood, asking ridiculous fees for them. Charging a kings random for ST to watch dross. No one cares about the world class stadium. We care about success on the pitch. So bugger off with your superior attitude and your financial bollocks.

 

[stevee]

Yeah, for now. Our slides only just begun. Kane’s off in the summer, how long do you think Son stays?

We’re headed on a direct course for mid table mediocrity. You don’t pack out 60k+ stadiums with that level of football and no top tier players.

People are going to lose interest. And even if they don’t it’ll be even more day trippy than it is now. Shit football in a silent stadium watching all our rivals outplay us and win trophies.

Tremendous success, thanks ENIC.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that we're going to be mid table mediocrity.
Still hasn't happened yet.

 

[Deuterz]

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that we're going to be mid table mediocrity.
Still hasn't happened yet.

We are 8th. We have lost as many games this season as Burnley. We couldn't even get out of a conference league group. Last season we were 7th, the season before 6th, the season before that 4th, the season before that 3rd and so on.

Wake the fuck up, the slide is happening before your very eyes. It wasn't going to happen in a single season but we are dropping down the table every single fucking season. If this isn't mediocre football (-1 GD, 9 losses, 8th place, no distractions) then I don't know what the fuck is to you.

How much worse do we need to get before the last defenders of ENIC abandon their damn post ?!

 

[Archie]

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that we're going to be mid table mediocrity.
Still hasn't happened yet.

We're 8th

 

[stevee]

We are 8th. We have lost as many games this season as Burnley. We couldn't even get out of a conference league group. Last season we were 7th, the season before 6th, the season before that 4th, the season before that 3rd and so on.

Wake the fuck up, the slide is happening before your very eyes. It wasn't going to happen in a single season but we are dropping down the table every single fucking season. If this isn't mediocre football (-1 GD, 9 losses, 8th place, no distractions) then I don't know what the fuck is to you.

How much worse do we need to get before the last defenders of ENIC abandon their damn post ?!

I didn't realise that the season was over.

Thanks for that.

 

[stevee]

We're 8th

Do we count us as mid table mediocrity based on 1 season ?

If so we are also perennial CL finalists.

 

[Deuterz]

I didn't realise that the season was over.

Thanks for that.

Yeah, we're really looking like turning this shit around. I'm sure top four is on the fucking horizon.

The level of delusion is utterly staggering.

 

[Deuterz]

Do we count us as mid table mediocrity based on 1 season ?

If so we are also perennial CL finalists.

7th last season by the way, 3 points off 10th. So two seasons of mediocrity. Season before we were 5 points off 10th as well, so still pretty fucking mediocre if we're being totally honest. But hey, just one season right? Let's just stick our fingers in the air and pretend we're not shit.

We lost to fucking Mura. MURA.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that we're going to be mid table mediocrity.
Still hasn't happened yet.

7th last season, currently 8th. The quality of our football and 90% of our players. We've hit mid table mediocrity.

 

[Ulrika Jonsson]

Like any good accountant you are playing with companies.

THFC is owned by ENIC. Owned by TAVISTOCK.

TAVISTOCK makes the money. Not THFC.

Profit earned by THFC goes to ENIC. Which goes to TAVISTOCK.

THFC is not a plc. Its a fiefdom.

No offence, but can you read my FAQ again please? i Thought it would take 2 pages for it to be forgotten but you’ve forgotten it in one. Good job!

In case you missed it, here is a FAQ for you

“Profit earned by THFC goes to ENIC. Which goes to TAVISTOCK.“
No. Profit earned by THFC stays in THFC unless it is repatriated to its parent company. The only way to do this is called a”dividend” which is paid by a company to its shareholders to distribute excess profit. ENIC owns circa. 85% of THFC and there are 15% of us who never sold our shares in the takeover. If THFC was to make dividend payments to shareholders it would have to make that payment to all shareholders in the proportion that you hold share certificates.

I have not received a dividend in The ENIC years and therefore ENIC have not received a dividend for its shareholding in THFC either.

 

[Deuterz]

7th last season, currently 8th. The quality of our football and 90% of our players. We've hit mid table mediocrity.

This lot say we're still in the top four fight right up until we're mathematically out of it every season, they don't have a clue where we're actually at. They live in a different universe to the rest of the fans watching this team play.

 

[Incomplete_usernam]

7th last season, currently 8th. The quality of our football and 90% of our players. We've hit mid table mediocrity.

"BuT ThE SeAsON IsN't OvEr YeT!"

 

[Deuterz]

"BuT ThE SeAsON IsN't OvEr YeT!"

'Because in this league, we can finish 10th, 12th, 13th — the same way when I arrived here, the same position'

- Antonio Conte

People really need to listen to the man actually managing this side and understand the level we're at, if watching it really isn't enough for them.

 

[Incomplete_usernam]

This lot say we're still in the top four fight right up until we're mathematically out of it every season, they don't have a clue where we're actually at. They live in a different universe to the rest of the fans watching this team play.

They think because we are 5 points off of 4th that we still have a chance but then choose to ignore the fact we have lost 4 out of the last 5 games.

I like to try and view thihgs positively but there is a thin line between positive mental attitude and delusional rambling.