Levy / ENIC

[FOK]

I liked the Venable years , signed great players , glorious FA cup when the cup was king and becoming the greatest FA winners in history till Sugar and Enic came along and fucked everything up. ,
Villa , Brighton

The villa owners have only been there 2 years and took over having been relegated, i'd give it a bit of time.

they were also forced to sell their best player to City in the summer. I'm sure Levy would have been popular selling Kane.

People lauded their alleged rebuild said they'd finish above us etc - they might finish top half - touch and go.

Their current manager is a legend from another club who kitted out for them in a charity match over the weekend (not sure how delighted I'd be about that as a Villa fan)

Brighton - can't speak for them really. They'll regularly be forced to sell their best player. their expectations are much much lower than us so it's hard to compare. Bloom might a great chairman I don't really know.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

I'm of the opinion that when things are going okay, I don't have a problem with ENIC and when things are going south, then I want someone else to take over.
Like most things in life, the true situation is somewhere in the middle.
ENIC have spent money in the last few years, but not particularly wisely, and we may have lost out on some over petty haggling, and that's my issue with them.
Buying players is nearly always a risk, no guarantees that it will be successful, and we have had our fingers burnt in the past, so I sort of get why Levy can be reluctant to splash the cash.
Our lack of trophies hurts, especially when we had a team that should have landed at least two cups during the Poch era, it's a scandal that they didn't pick up something. You can't blame ENIC for the team's failure at that time - the responsibility has to be with the players and coaching staff for not getting some silverware. The football at the time was a joy to watch and we had excellent players all across the park, but success is measured by titles these days, no-one remembers nearly men.
Anyway, there is an element of be careful what you wish for - we could have owners who are a lot worse than ENIC. How many multi billionaires are out there that are squeaky clean, that would be any better? Just asking for a friend! (Not really)

 

[John Thomas]

No thoughts on the Venables/Sugar era?

You’ve been completely rumbled as a teenage fan pretending to understand both football and the history of our club.

Having a young generation of fans is essential but it’s embarrassing when they don’t have the foggiest idea of what happened to Spurs in the 90s

Ooohh! I've been called a teenager!

 

[Deuterz]

The villa owners have only been there 2 years and took over having been relegated, i'd give it a bit of time.

they were also forced to sell their best player to City in the summer. I'm sure Levy would have been popular selling Kane.

People lauded their alleged rebuild said they'd finish above us etc - they might finish top half - touch and go.

Their current manager is a legend from another club who kitted out for them in a charity match over the weekend (not sure how delighted I'd be about that as a Villa fan)

Brighton - can't speak for them really. They'll regularly be forced to sell their best player. their expectations are much much lower than us so it's hard to compare. Bloom might a great chairman I don't really know.

I'd imagine Brighton, Leeds, Brentford, Liverpool, Villa, Palace, Leicester and Wolves all have more popular owners than we do. Liverpool grumbled a bit at FSG over spending but are very happy with the way they're run otherwise. We may even have fallen behind Woolwich after their successful summer, but football fans are fickle so that'll probably depend on who gets fourth!

 

[Ionman34]

This thread......... Jesus.

People should be allowed to criticise ENIC of course.

Equally, people who don't think ENIC are the worst owners in the world are also allowed to hold that view.

People asking for one or the other group to be "named and shamed" or "outed" or "not real Spurs fans" is ridiculous. having a different opinion doesn't make someone wrong.

of course we'd all like more trophies. frankly we've been good enough over the last few seasons (well under Poch) to win some.

it didn't happen which is a shame and the fact that we've regularly been so close and stepped up into the "top team" category has increased scrutiny and only highlighted that we're good but haven't won.

it's obviously also increased the scrutiny having gotten so close but fallen short.

We're too good to be ignored but not good enough/lucky enough to win. Perfect storm.

We don't exist in isolation, however and this is where some people seem to just not get it.

There are other factors to not winning, citing our success in the cups prior to ENIC without referencing the Elephants in the room of Oligarch and State funded money coming into City and Chelsea is completely obtuse.

It's obv a massive coincidence they've won the most since they've got the owners they got.


Some posters also say "21 years no trophies is unacceptable" as if the every years were 16th and doing nothing. Ignoring the CL runs we went on etc like those seasons under Poch were nothing, because under Ramos we won a league cup and finished 9th "That's real success!"

Point is, everyone has a right to an opinion and no one is "less Spurs" on either side here.

In other news where is Arcspace?

I never agreed with one word that madman said! but I kind of miss him?

Good post, apart from the last 2 sentences that is. Wasteofspace is a lunatic with tourettes. If he's not slagging off Enic, he's slagging off the players. If he's not slagging them off he does it with other posters.

ALWAYS absent when we are doing well, ever present when we're not.

Long may we carry on winning.

 

[John Thomas]

The ENIC PR machine really is in overdrive right now

Almost as if it’s season ticket renewal time ….

It's funny how one good victory brings them out of the woodwork.

Usually start off with a stalking horse to test the water then a few more follow and Bob's your uncle.........it's the Levy appreciation thread.

 

[John Thomas]

There is nothing to gain from this debate anymore anyways and I really can’t be bothered to argue it

I feel the same way mate......Think I'm out then they drag me back in...

:contefacepalm:

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

I'd imagine Brighton, Leeds, Brentford, Liverpool, Villa, Palace, Leicester and Wolves all have more popular owners than we do. Liverpool grumbled a bit at FSG over spending but are very happy with the way they're run otherwise. We may even have fallen behind Woolwich after their successful summer, but football fans are fickle so that'll probably depend on who gets fourth!

Liverpool fans were berating their ‘cheap owners’ all over social media for not stumping up half a million quid a week for Salah and because they don’t compete with City financially.

Palace, Wolves, Leeds, Brentford and Villa have won fuck all so you’re basically saying that their fans are happy with no silverware.

I grew up in Highbury and all my Woolwich supporting mates from back in the day despise Kroenke even more than you hate Levy. His tenure has actually taken them backwards.

 

[Tomo]

Liverpool fans were berating their ‘cheap owners’ all over social media for not stumping up half a million quid a week for Salah and because they don’t compete with City financially.

Palace, Wolves, Leeds, Brentford and Villa have won fuck all so you’re basically saying that their fans are happy with no silverware.

I grew up in Highbury and all my Woolwich supporting mates from back in the day despise Kroenke even more than you hate Levy. His tenure has actually taken them backwards.

Brentford????

Them being in the Prem is like us or Woolwich winning the Treble, it’s an astonishing accomplishment.

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

It's funny how one good victory brings them out of the woodwork.

Usually start off with a stalking horse to test the water then a few more follow and Bob's your uncle.........it's the Levy appreciation thread.

If you can’t tell the difference between a substantive discussion on ownership including our very relevant history and Levy appreciation then you clearly lack reading comprehension skills or suffer from ENIC derangement syndrome.

Forgive me if I’m underwhelmed by your ‘hundreds of ENIC era games’ experience.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

I agree with that apart from the santini bit, I have no recollection of broken promises. His was a ridiculous appointment btw after the Trappatoni affair. I’m surprised more is not made of that by the anti Levy mob

I think he said something a long the lines of they promised me a villa and I got a one bedroom flat, he was talking metaphorically . I think it was something like that, but I have quite possibly dreamt it. I might be talking bollocks

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

Brentford????

Them being in the Prem is like us or Woolwich winning the Treble, it’s an astonishing accomplishment.

It is.
They have brilliant, forward thinking ownership.
….. but they haven’t won anything and they sell their best players annually.

Maybe their fans have realistic expectations about what it takes to win silverware and aren’t the deluded muppets on here that think that we’re entitled to win something because we were a really competitive team fifteen years before ENIC bought us and ignore the history that nearly ruined us in between.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

I think he said something a long the lines of they promised me a villa and I got a one bedroom flat, he was talking metaphorically . I think it was something like that, but I have quite possibly dreamt it. I might be talking bollocks

I am to thick to upload it but he told the bbc

They promised me a big apartment on the beach I ended up 200 m from the sea with a view of my neighbours

Danny Boy has form for just such behaviour ever since as far as I am concerned

 

[Tomo]

It is.
They have brilliant, forward thinking ownership.
….. but they haven’t won anything and they sell their best players annually.

Maybe their fans have realistic expectations about what it takes to win silverware and aren’t the deluded muppets on here that think that we’re entitled to win something because we were a really competitive team fifteen years before ENIC bought us and ignore the history that nearly ruined us in between.

Yes but you can only asses based on club. I used to go to Dagenham and Redbridge when I was a kid the best I could hope for was a magic cup run or coming top of the conference which was fantastic.

Spurs are not Brentford, we are between the 4-7th biggest club in England depending on argument, hence if we are talking about performance we have arguably performed roughly average or above average League position wise but poor trophy wise (1 in 20 years).

It’s why Brentford and Liverpool are near the top rated for owners because they have gone above expectations, we are in the middle section and Man United under the shitbags called the Glazers are at the bottom of the rankings that came out voted by fans.

 

[Deuterz]

Liverpool fans were berating their ‘cheap owners’ all over social media for not stumping up half a million quid a week for Salah and because they don’t compete with City financially.

Palace, Wolves, Leeds, Brentford and Villa have won fuck all so you’re basically saying that their fans are happy with no silverware.

I grew up in Highbury and all my Woolwich supporting mates from back in the day despise Kroenke even more than you hate Levy. His tenure has actually taken them backwards.

Yeah, they're not satisfied. They still rank higher than ours though because whilst they feel like their owners are unambitious, the Liverpool moneyball project is actually functioning due to a higher hit rate when it comes to signings. And because the Klopp appointment has gone so well for them.

They're all either much smaller clubs than ours, or relatively big clubs who were picked up in the championship, so yes at this current moment the expectations are obviously lower. But they're happy with the level of ambition the owners are putting in to their current expectations and the way they're running the clubs.

I know Woolwich fans despise Kroenke. But it'll shift pretty quickly if they succeed in their goals this season after a bit of investment.

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

Yeah, they're not satisfied. They still rank higher than ours though because whilst they feel like their owners are unambitious, the Liverpool moneyball project is actually functioning due to a higher hit rate when it comes to signings. And because the Klopp appointment has gone so well for them.

They're all either much smaller clubs than ours, or relatively big clubs who were picked up in the championship, so yes at this current moment the expectations are obviously lower. But they're happy with the level of ambition the owners are putting in to their current expectations and the way they're running the clubs.

I know Woolwich fans despise Kroenke. But it'll shift pretty quickly if they succeed in their goals this season after a bit of investment.

Let’s be honest.
Football fans are notoriously fickle.
After all, they won a Champions League and a Premiership with this ownership after years of meh.
And they did it playing really watchable football.

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

Yes but you can only asses based on club. I used to go to Dagenham and Redbridge when I was a kid the best I could hope for was a magic cup run or coming top of the conference which was fantastic.

Spurs are not Brentford, we are between the 4-7th biggest club in England depending on argument, hence if we are talking about performance we have arguably performed roughly average or above average League position wise but poor trophy wise (1 in 20 years).

It’s why Brentford and Liverpool are near the top rated for owners because they have gone above expectations, we are in the middle section and Man United under the shitbags called the Glazers are at the bottom of the rankings that came out voted by fans.

Thanks.
This is a very reasonable assessment of (our) ownership.
I wish there were a few more grownups on here who could debate (or converse) in good faith.

Edited to add:
I used to go to the O’s on some off weeks from Spurs. They still hold a place dear to me.

 

[Deuterz]

Let’s be honest.
Football fans are notoriously fickle.
After all, they won a Champions League and a Premiership with this ownership after years of meh.
And they did it playing really watchable football.

No doubt.

Liverpool fans moaning about FSG is funny. I know a few scousers though and they all say they'd never want to switch owners, so maybe more of a noisy social media thing? That's purely anecdotal though. The guys I've spoken to were more annoyed about the super league business than spending. They view FSG as tight fisted, stereotypical American ownership but recognise they've been ran competently and can't argue with the results. Where they were when taken over compared to now is night and fucking day.

 

[A Tuba]

Is he?

I found little evidence to point towards anything but him being a good CFO.

It's like saying, that if he was a CEO of a smartphone brand over the last 20 years "yeah brilliant look how we have grown", when in face the market has EXPLODED around us and we merely tagged along proportionally.

And yeah. I'm talking about the football here. An unpleasant but needed caveat in this thread.

I'm not an ENIC supporter.

But we've effectively established ourselves in the top 6, something Villa, Newcastle and Everton could not do. We've been competitive with Woolwich when their playing budget was bigger too. Throw in the revenue growth and the challenge of the oil money and Levy's done a decent job as CEO. Not like you can quote any non-loss making club that does better.

But as I said, I'd rather we had an ownership that put at least some money in and tried harder to win pots. Long term you need that to grow.

 

[Ionman34]

Is he?

I found little evidence to point towards anything but him being a good CFO.

It's like saying, that if he was a CEO of a smartphone brand over the last 20 years "yeah brilliant look how we have grown", when in face the market has EXPLODED around us and we merely tagged along proportionally.

And yeah. I'm talking about the football here. An unpleasant but needed caveat in this thread.

That's really not correct. Had we just "tagged along proportionally," as you suggest, we wouldn't have closed the gap on Utd, overtaken the goons, outstripped Everton and Villa, clubs that a decade or two ago were in a similar position to us, if not better.

Yes, I know that's not the Footballing side of things, but let's look at that under Enic's tenure.

Sugar sold a club that hadn't seen European Football for nigh on 2 decades. Under Enic we progressed from that to regular European qualification, with a CL final thrown in. The first in our history. We went from bottom half regulars to top 4 regulars. We challenged for the title twice, something not seen since the 80's.

Since 1991, our last FA cup win, we have been in 8 semi finals, losing them all.
Since 2008, our last trophy, we've been in 3 League Cup finals, losing them all to Utd and Chelsea twice. We've been in numerous semi final losses too.

We made it to a Champions League final for the first time in our 137 year history.

We've been competing for top silverware regularly over Enic's tenure, we just haven't gone that final step.

What else happened over the timeframe of the tenure? Chelsea were bought by Abramovic, who pumped a shitload of cash into the team, no regulation/FFP at that time, and proceeded to hoover up trophies regularly. Prior to him, the teams that weren't financially doped (Utd, goons, Scouse) we were beginning to compete properly with. Man City were bouncing between divisions back then. So Liverpool and the goons get frozen out of the title running, with only Utd able to match their finances.
Then the Qataris buy City, and the landscape changes again.

We're now arguably better than Utd, better than the goons, but have fallen behind Chelsea, City and Liverpool, one team actually deservedly where they are through good management, with the other two obscenely financially doped.

Now imagine the scenario where the financial doping were removed, and clubs would only be able to compete with their own raised revenue. Our competition financially would be Utd and Liverpool. We'd be top 3 and challenging far more regularly, of that I have no doubt.

Even so, we've been challenging regularly, just failing at the last hurdle. There's an argument that had Enic spent more it could have taken us over that last hurdle, I accept that and even agree to an extent. But I'd also say that the players have to be questioned. The CL final was a prime example of this. We knew we were good enough to beat Liverpool, we all believed that was going to be our first CL. The players didn't though, they played with fear and lost. That's not on Enic.

Apologies for the long windedness of the post, so I'll close it by saying that I hope the above is evidence enough to at least make you stop and think that Enic have done far more than you give them credit for.

Whether they are right for us going forward I think is something we'll have to wait and see, now the money is transparently available.