The Race for 4th

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I don't think even Roman would have sacked him. Two cup finals lost on penalties to Liverpool + a CL quarter final lost narrowly to Madrid in extra time. The league performance was disappointing but I think once they fell out of the title race the focus went, they're clearly still the 3rd best team in the league IMO, although I expect us to change that next season with signings + them losing Rudiger etc.

Falling out of the title-race and any subsequent loss of focus would very much be the core issue, I'd suggest..
 
Falling out of the title-race and any subsequent loss of focus would very much be the core issue, I'd suggest..

I think the squads overrated, in fairness. Really strong midfield + backline but injuries to Chilwell/James hampered really dangerous wing backs at key points in the season, and going forward they have a great support cast but lack top class wide players & a CF. Lukaku doesn't fit how Tuchel wants to play and was clearly a club signing.

Loss of focus in the league when title was done was poor, but understandable. Happened to us under Pochettino and has happened to top sides before. They ended up managing 3rd anyway and you really can't be expecting any higher.
 
I think the squads overrated, in fairness. Really strong midfield + backline but injuries to Chilwell/James hampered really dangerous wing backs at key points in the season, and going forward they have a great support cast but lack top class wide players & a CF. Lukaku doesn't fit how Tuchel wants to play and was clearly a club signing.

Of course one can do a subjective, retrospective squad autopsy, but they were faves for title for some.

Loss of focus in the league when title was done was poor, but understandable. Happened to us under Pochettino and has happened to top sides before.

Yeh, but they were as good as out of it come NYDay..... 10 point gap / Match day 21.

They ended up managing 3rd anyway and you really can't be expecting any higher.

Why? They were considered entirely credible contenders before kick off.
 
Not worried about United in the slightest. Proper graveyard football club since Fergie left. Will be 20 years before they are successful like that again. Football comes round in cycles and United are basically what Liverpool we’re in the 90s. The odd smaller trophy every 4/5 years and finishing in the top 7
Totally agree , but you better tell Gary Neville , Roy Keane and Rio Ferdinand , their stuck in a delusional time warp !
 
Of course one can do a subjective, retrospective squad autopsy, but they were faves for title for some.



Yeh, but they were as good as out of it come NYDay..... 10 point gap / Match day 21.



Why? They were considered entirely credible contenders before kick off.

Because people were wrong. City & Liverpool unquestionably have better teams, and also have the top two managers in world football at their helms. They've dominated English football for years and will probably continue to do that.

I honestly think a lot of the hype was people desperately denying the reality that the PL is a two team league at the moment. Nobody else is in the same league as these sides. Signing Lukaku wasn't going to bridge that gap.
 
Because people were wrong.

Hindsight agrees with you, but such is the nature of predictions.

City & Liverpool unquestionably have better teams, and also have the top two managers in world football at their helms. They've dominated English football for years and will probably continue to do that.

I honestly think a lot of the hype was people desperately denying the reality that the PL is a two team league at the moment.

I've no reason to think that, but it's hard to tangibly debate either way.

Nobody else is in the same league as these sides. Signing Lukaku wasn't going to bridge that gap.

I wonder what the bookies said at the beginning of the season....?
 
Hindsight agrees with you, but such is the nature of predictions.






I wonder what the bookies said at the beginning of the season....?

Just to get in ahead of the hindsight, if we have a big window people are gonna starting hyping us up as contenders and trying to force more teams in to the race. Maybe we have a good start like Chelsea did and fall off, thus bottling talk will start. It's all nonsense, we're nowhere near the top 2, nobody is.

I think they were 5/1 with City big favourites. People (including bookies, probably) underrated Liverpool because they had a ridiculous injury crisis last season. Their starting XI is much, much better than Chelsea's.
 
Just to get in ahead of the hindsight, if we have a big window people are gonna starting hyping us up as contenders and trying to force more teams in to the race.

You mean like ya boy Tuchel just did?

:baletroll:
Maybe we have a good start like Chelsea did and fall off, thus bottling talk will start. It's all nonsense, we're nowhere near the top 2, nobody is.

Touche... I already said some weeks ago; I don't see what 'glory' looks like for Conte here(*) in the short-term cos bridging the gap in one season is one hell of an ask.

(*from his perspective; regardless of fans or Levy)

I think they were 5/1 with City big favourites. People (including bookies, probably) underrated Liverpool because they had a ridiculous injury crisis last season.

👍

...I don't pay close attention to that shit - Just curious.

Their starting XI is much, much better than Chelsea's.

Yeh, personally, they don't impress me much and their contract situation over the next 12 months is dreadfull..... Pretty much all their CBs and CMs + Alonso appear to be out of there.
 
Touche... I already said some weeks ago; I don't see what 'glory' looks like for Conte here(*) in the short-term cos bridging the gap in one season is one hell of an ask.

(*from his perspective; regardless of fans or Levy)



👍

...I don't pay close attention to that shit - Just curious.



Yeh, personally, they don't impress me much and their contract situation over the next 12 months is dreadfull..... Pretty much all their CBs and CMs + Alonso appear to be out of there.

Be the best of the rest. Have a good go in the cups, a season like Chelsea just had would actually be very good, heartbreaking but clear progress in terms of getting closer to silverware. But more than any arbitrary targets, enjoyable football and clear signs on the pitch over a long period of time than the team is developing. We've had that in spades under Conte thus far.

Kante's decline has hurt them badly. Rudiger moving on is huge and T.Silva isn't getting any younger. A full season of Chilwell & James would help them a lot but whatever way you look at it they're in a hard situation without Roman's money.
 
Be the best of the rest. Have a good go in the cups, a season like Chelsea just had would actually be very good, heartbreaking but clear progress in terms of getting closer to silverware. But more than any arbitrary targets, enjoyable football and clear signs on the pitch over a long period of time than the team is developing. We've had that in spades under Conte thus far.

I'm much the same tbh..... But I more had in mind the Conte perspective and how the realities of us 'competing at the top' meshed with him staying (see the fearful narrative that dominates much of the Conte thread).
 
I'm much the same tbh..... But I more had in mind the Conte perspective and how the realities of us 'competing at the top' meshed with him staying (see the fearful narrative that dominates much of the Conte thread).

I think as long as we're making progress on bridging that gap (it will not happen overnight) and he's getting the signings he wants (more or less) as well as giving silverware a good go, Conte will be content. If not then hey ho, we're in a better place than when he took over. No reason to be overly fearful.
 
Because people were wrong. City & Liverpool unquestionably have better teams, and also have the top two managers in world football at their helms. They've dominated English football for years and will probably continue to do that.

I honestly think a lot of the hype was people desperately denying the reality that the PL is a two team league at the moment. Nobody else is in the same league as these sides. Signing Lukaku wasn't going to bridge that gap.
The PL almost always is a two team league but the dominant teams change over time. 16 years ago, Chelsea were top dog with United struggling to make a challenge, then United won in 2007 and things changed again. Before Chelsea, it was Woolwich and United who dominated the league, in the 80s it was Liverpool and Everton and people always think the monopoly is never going to end because they can't predict how the circumstances will change until it happens.

City and Liverpool will go into decline and other clubs will take their place. As I've said elsewhere on the forum, we are the highest placed club that is happy with the success it has achieved this season. We have momentum. The three clubs above us don't.
 
The PL almost always is a two team league but the dominant teams change over time. 16 years ago, Chelsea were top dog with United struggling to make a challenge, then United won in 2007 and things changed again. Before Chelsea, it was Woolwich and United who dominated the league, in the 80s it was Liverpool and Everton and people always think the monopoly is never going to end because they can't predict how the circumstances will change until it happens.

City and Liverpool will go into decline and other clubs will take their place. As I've said elsewhere on the forum, we are the highest placed club that is happy with the success it has achieved this season. We have momentum. The three clubs above us don't.

United dominated the premier league for ages under Ferguson, they had the rare off year but more or less bossed the domestic scene. City have won four of the last five league titles. They have infinite resources that nobody has ever had before. They just won a league and signed Haaland, and that won't be them done either. Hopeful at best to think they're going anywhere anytime soon.

Confused what this even means. City don't have momentum having just won a league? Liverpool who have 2 trophies and are in a CL final don't have momentum?
 
City wanted the CL and they didn't get it. Liverpool wanted the Quadruple and they didn't get it. Chelsea wanted to win the league and they spectacularly didn't get it.

I'm sure City will content themselves with a premier league title and Liverpool will get over the lack of a league title if they win a treble of cups.

Not sure we can claim to have more momentum than teams who actually won trophies in dramatic fashion because we claimed top 4 in dramatic fashion.
 
I suspect those figures have been adjusted accordingly.... 2.31ppg wouldn't be possible in 1961 otherwise.


Not sure what the final column is meant to mean though.
It's just a way of standardising the results to a 38 game 3 pt/1pt season.

E.g The title winning year...

31 wins / 42 x 38 x 3 pts = 84.14
4 draws / 42 x 38 x 1 pt = 3.62
Total points = 87.76
 
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