Manager Ange Postecoglou

[Yorkshire Yid]

Well, after 10 games, other prem teams figured out that playing Royal and Davies as our center back pair wasn't very good - bit still managed a 3-3 draw away at City.

We went on another decent run when Romero was back from suspension and Richarlison was finally fit. We won 11 out of 16 games, only losing 2 games to Wolves and Fulham.

There is no shame in losing to Liverpool, Woolwich and City towards the end of the season. They are better than us and all were playing for the title. Chelsea and Newcastle are could have gone our way, but the players on the pitch shit the bed with individual errors - not so much the system.


There is a long way to go before we can compete for the title but turning around 2 or 3 results next season with squad improvements is easily achievable.

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Yeah the figured out thing is well overused

First 10 games when everyone was fit and on form we looked great. Results took a nosedive after Chelsea because everyone was injured or suspended.

Key players like Romero and VDV came back results improved. Especially when Richie came back and hit that purple patch. Results then tail off again when entire front 3 drops out of form Richie gets injured again and so does Undogie.

Only real tactical concern is set pieces imo something that defo is a massive issue not matter what Ange says. But big big issue we have is depth we have no backup fullbacks started the season with no CB cover. Have no real cover for Maddison when injured or out of form. And the frontline is frankly just a joke.

Johnson gets more time and Son is a spurs legend but declining fast. Richie seems a decent player in the system but is always injured. Solomon legit might never play again for us and sustained a horrendous injury. And Kulu just doesn't work in the system on the wings and is to limited. Don't think we should keep Werner either.

I think there is legit as argument that our entire forward line doesn't suit the way we wanna play and it's the biggest thing that's holding us back

 

[Cranston]

End of the day, I think a lot of fans got their knickers in a twist. Ange probably did too on reflection.

Ultimately, Ange is trying to re-frame the culture. His job is to win and instil a winning mentality within the club (in before melts post snapshots of last 5 games results etc.)

Unusual is a good word in this context. It was a fucking unusual game.

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It was a (hopefully) once in a lifetime situation. It’s irritating how pundits and journalists are wilfully ignoring this.

I don’t care what anyone says. The overwhelming majority of Chav, Woolwich, Spam fans would have wanted *exactly* the same loss, were the roles switched.

Also, I think we need to get away from this idea of needing a winner or changing the culture. It’s an almost corporate approach to sport.

We need really fucking good players.

The single thing that will determine Ange’s success at the club is how we recruit for our forward line. That’s all it is.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Not sure that's true at all.

Lets look at last season. Last 19 games of 2022/23 - 8 wins, 3 draws, 8 losses. 1.42PPG (54 points over a season)

Two seasons before that? Last 19 games of 2020/21 - 9 wins, 2 draws, 8 losses. 1.53 PPG (58 points over a season)

Pochs last 19 games in charge? - 6 wins, 6 draws, 7 losses. 1.26 PPG (48 points over a season).

Go back even further. Redknapps last season in charge? 7 wins, 6 draws, 6 losses, 1.42PPG (54 points over a season)

Now if we beat Sheffield United, which we will do. This will be our last 19 games of 2023/24:

9 wins, 3 draws, 7 losses. 1.58 PPG (60 points over the course of a season).


This most definitely isn't our worst run of results since Ramos or in over 20 years at all. And if anything, shows us that this is usually a typical Tottenham season.

Start well. Tail off a bit. Hit some form again. Finish weak.

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Really interesting digging

Club really needs to look at why this pattern keeps repeating

 

[Deuterz]

The entire conversation was in the context of a fan being ejected from the stadium, not about people being dragged out of their beds by the gestapo for their online opinions.

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The entire conversation was about the argument of ‘well you can’t be racist so free speech isn’t absolute’ not whether Spurs had a right to eject somebody.

The whole argument is surely whether Spurs were justified in kicking him out, not whether they can.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

Not sure that's true at all.

Lets look at last season. Last 19 games of 2022/23 - 8 wins, 3 draws, 8 losses. 1.42PPG (54 points over a season)

Two seasons before that? Last 19 games of 2020/21 - 9 wins, 2 draws, 8 losses. 1.53 PPG (58 points over a season)

Pochs last 19 games in charge? - 6 wins, 6 draws, 7 losses. 1.26 PPG (48 points over a season).

Go back even further. Redknapps last season in charge? 7 wins, 6 draws, 6 losses, 1.42PPG (54 points over a season)

Now if we beat Sheffield United, which we will do. This will be our last 19 games of 2023/24:

9 wins, 3 draws, 7 losses. 1.58 PPG (60 points over the course of a season).


This most definitely isn't our worst run of results since Ramos or in over 20 years at all. And if anything, shows us that this is usually a typical Tottenham season.

Start well. Tail off a bit. Hit some form again. Finish weak.

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Sort of proves my point. All those managers were sacked soon after those runs of results. They are all higher than the the numbers i stated which were our last 10 or 27

Last 10 games 10 Pts 1 ppg - 38 pts over a season.

Last 27 games 37 pts 1.37 ppg - 52 pts over a season.

Other than Ramos no one has worse than 10 pts from 10 games, even he had 7 pts from his last 10. Poch had 10 pts from his last 10 and was of course sacked. Santini had 13 pts from his 11 matches and sacked, Nuno 15 pts from his 10, AVB 13 pts from his last 10.

 

[HampshireSpur]

I am going to disagree with some here but I think Ange comes out of this affair with some credit actually, he's clearly frustrated at the loser/no trophies mentality at Spurs and wants to change the club culture, I think that's admirable. It makes me laugh when you see the same old faces on here clogging up the 'let's laugh at Woolwich/Liverpool/Chelsea' (etc) threads and showing an utter lack of self-reflection. No one in football is laughing at Woolwich or Liverpool this season, even Chelsea seem to be turning it around. What all those clubs do is win stuff: ask any non-Spurs fan and they will say the same things about us - attractive football but flaky and don't actually achieve anything. I like that Ange wants to put a rocket under that and is disdainful of the corporate club culture as exemplified by the likes of Milsey (lol), good for him.

Where I have my criticisms is in how Ange sets up the team, and, in particular, he hasn't privileged a solid defence. I also have question marks whether he will bring in the right players. He can sure talk the talk but can he walk the walk - jury out for me on the basis of the past 10-25 games or so; i.e., this is not a few one-off results from poor refereeing, individual mistakes or whatever - these are systemic issues in how Ange sets up teams. I find that a lot more troubling than whether he goes on the front foot in a press conference, I don't think he said anything out of line.

 

[Mostly wrong]

The entire conversation was about the argument of ‘well you can’t be racist so free speech isn’t absolute’ not whether Spurs had a right to eject somebody.

The whole argument is surely whether Spurs were justified in kicking him out, not whether they can.

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yep.

A fan getting ejected for saying what most feel. Even if he told him to throw the game so what? he's entitled to have that opinion and say it as we apparently live in a democracy.

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The above parent comment is what started this chain of conversation, clearly this is a question of one's freedom to say or do as they please when attending the stadium which, again, is not a question of free speech, but about what code of conduct the club decides to uphold with regards to fan behaviour. Now, if we were talking about a fan being banned from attending the stadium for what they've said outside the stadium, you might have a point.

 

[Deuterz]

The above parent comment is what started this chain of conversation, clearly this is a question of one's freedom to say or do as they please when attending the stadium which, again, is not a question of free speech, but about what code of conduct the club decides to uphold with regards to fan behaviour. Now, if we were talking about a fan being banned from attending the stadium for what they've said outside the stadium, you might have a point.

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But I didn’t reply to the parent comment, I replied to the comment talking about free speech.

I agree that the club, on its own premises, can practically do whatever it likes as long as it isn’t classed as discriminatory.

 

[HampshireSpur]

Also, I think we need to get away from this idea of needing a winner or changing the culture. It’s an almost corporate approach to sport.

We need really fucking good players.

The single thing that will determine Ange’s success at the club is how we recruit for our forward line. That’s all it is.

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One thing influences the other - bringing in players of the right quality and mentality is how you change a culture. We need a team full of winners and leaders, it's been pointed out a few times on here but the entire leadership team leaving at the end of last season didn't help here. I've watched a few games this season where we haven't been willing to compete or shown the right attitude. I think that's what Ange is getting at and I agree with him. We need to ditch the soft spine.

Goes without saying that players need to be quality, you're right there, but we need people with the right mindset too - yes, I'm looking at you Tanguy...

 

[Bazali]

Not all affected by key injuries or suspensions or inadequacy of front line etc.?!

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To a certain degree but we’ve still been shite since November but you celebrate the superb win against Burnley!

 

[Mostly wrong]

But I didn’t reply to the parent comment, I replied to the comment talking about free speech.

I agree that the club, on its own premises, can practically do whatever it likes as long as it isn’t classed as discriminatory.

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The comment you replied to was a direct retort to the comment I quoted in the post above; if you've decided to remove it from context to muddy the waters of the conversation that's disingenuous at best.

 

[Bazali]

It is fair to say that other teams were able to expose the space behind the full backs and, identified Vicario as poor defending set pieces - along with the fact we often leave space beyond the back post.

Right now, our attacking strategy has been to shift our full backs into midfield and dominate the ball - this has worked, and we always have the lion's share of possession - even against City.

The main issue is, we are unable to convert this into goals. We don't have a settled front 3 and have tried various combinations. Johnson needs time, and his final ball is often poor. Off the ball, he isn't contributing enough in defense. Add to that we don't have a target striker. Richy has never been fit.

So, if we fix the front 3, the system may well work.

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I just don’t know if Kulu can feature as it’s like playing with ten men sometimes

 

[Yiddy]

What I don't get is the same people that have been telling us here for years that we're outrageous and delusional for demanding better and to win trophies are now coming out in full force when ange says we need a winning mentality and to win games and trophies. So I'm expecting atleast 1 trophy of any kind next season and a very strong league position. Anything less than that is unacceptable.

 

[Starks]

Sort of proves my point. All those managers were sacked soon after those runs of results. They are all higher than the the numbers i stated which were our last 10 or 27

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That wasn't your point. Your point was no one had worse form in 20 years. Which was wrong.

Weve lost to Woolwich and City (two best teams in the country). Liverpool and Chelsea away (where we've won a grand total of 1 time in 15 years combined). And two stinkers to Newcastle and Fulham away.

I'd encourage you to look at the games the above managers lost or dropped points to during their runs of form.

Last 10 games 10 Pts 1 ppg - 38 pts over a season.

Last 27 games 37 pts 1.37 ppg - 52 pts over a season.

Other than Ramos no one has worse than 10 pts from 10 games, even he had 7 pts from his last 10. Poch had 10 pts from his last 10 and was of course sacked. Santini had 13 pts from his 11 matches, Nuno 15 pts from his 10.

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And if we beat Sheffield Utd it'll be 6 points from his last 3.

2 PPG - 76 points over a season. Lovely jubbly.

 

[Bazali]

Did you watch the game? You call that performance from the team and the manager being found out? Against the 2nd most expensive team in the world it was a close run thing and there was plenty of positives to take from it going into the next season

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But I wasn’t referring to just one game

Since November and the Chavs game we’ve been shite

 

[Starks]

Really interesting digging

Club really needs to look at why this pattern keeps repeating

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Even more interesting is that if Villa don't beat Palace. Their PPG this second half of the year will be identical to ours.

1.58 PPG if they draw.

If they lose, their second half of the season would have been worse than ours. 1.53 PPG.

Crazy eh?

 

[Bazali]

Yea~those first 10 games were a mirage. After they figured us out we have been worse than Nunu...

Ange: 11-7-12 is pretty terrible. I mean horrific if you tell me... bottom feeders since then...

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And how many clean sheets during that time?

Pep identified a weakness in set pieces , exploited it and Ange didn’t know what to do so other teams have done it including the Scum as they went 3-0 up!

 

[Richard Arlison]

Even more interesting is that if Villa don't beat Palace. Their PPG this second half of the year will be identical to ours.

1.58 PPG if they draw.

If they lose, their second half of the season would have been worse than ours. 1.53 PPG.

Crazy eh?

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According to most, Emery is the manager of the year with his incredible Plan B's his incredible high level experience in European football that Ange can't claim to match.


btw, this is what Ange ACTUALLY said about fans:

"Of course it does. It is what it is. I can't dictate what people do," he remarked. "They're allowed to express themselves any way they want. But yeah, when we've got late winners in games it's because the crowd's helped us."

Everything else is a media created storm in a tea cup that Spurs fans have sucked up through a straw because they love to feel offended.

 

[Richard Arlison]

That wasn't your point. Your point was no one had worse form in 20 years. Which was wrong.

Weve lost to Woolwich and City (two best teams in the country). Liverpool and Chelsea away (where we've won a grand total of 1 time in 15 years combined). And two stinkers to Newcastle and Fulham away.

I'd encourage you to look at the games the above managers lost or dropped points to during their runs of form.



And if we beat Sheffield Utd it'll be 6 points from his last 3.

2 PPG - 76 points over a season. Lovely jubbly.

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Cooking today.

 

[Shadydan]

The comment you replied to was a direct retort to the comment I quoted in the post above; if you've decided to remove it from context to muddy the waters of the conversation that's disingenuous at best.

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He's good at doing that.