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Player Wilson Odobert

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GGTH said:
Son, obviously.

We kept Kane till his 30s, that's more than enough time to keep any player.
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Son is a decent call. But he wasn't signed as a youngster. He was already a decent pedigree when he came.

Harry had been showing signs of frustration for a few years at our lack of direction but his loyalty outweighed his ambition and, ultimately, he was still sold for a mega fee without winning with us.

This is our sticking point. We sign youngsters in the hope of turning them in to superstars.
But if they become superstars, we don't sign the quality of ready made player needed to support them and facilitate them reaching their goals with us.

And so the cycle continues.
 
JDefoe said:
I think (hope)that he’s been slightly misused as a transition winger in what are some abysmal teams (Troyes and Burnley, both relegated).

These teams basically have thrown him out, in his first minutes in senior football, to feast on scraps and play as an outlet in transition. In large spaces dueling for the ball, it really is physical tools first. There’s a reason someone like Traoré still starts PL matches, pace and power are king in sides like these.

And then I saw that Burnley played him at #10 on Monday, and my view of him improved exponentially. We desperately need a winger who can do something with the ball and initiate attacks. It just feels like hot potato against a set defense usually. We need a primary ball handler other than Maddison.

To me, and again, I’ve only seen a few bits, transition running is not what Odobert is about. He’s a PSG boy. Favorite player is Neymar. He has possession pedigree. He not only wants the ball, he wants to take responsibility. He wants to come infield, initiate moves, set up passes and runs 3-4 plays ahead. He wants to control the ball. And so these transition based sides that ask him to essentially livewire his way into creating chances on the break are a poor fit for what he really is.

Now, I could be completely wrong, and he may in fact be shit. But what this club has been chasing ever since we missed out on Hazard in 2012, he seems to have.

The thing that the endless string of replacements (N’Jie, Nkoudou, Moura, Bergwijn, Johnson, etc.) have lacked is the mental level. They have skill and pace, but don’t have ann innate ability to control play and initiate a larger attack. When I watch Odobert I see much more than that. He’s the same age as a young Eze (in 2019 at QPR) or Olise in 2021 at Reading, and that’s before they were viewed as stars. Also 3-4 years younger than Bergwijn at PSV and Nkoudou at Marseille when we bought them.
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Wish I could like this post 10x over 👏

In terms of Raw talent, Odobert is comfortably the best of all of those names.

Just having a 1v1 threat that requires constant double teaming will always unsettle the opposition defence. In addition to that he plays with his head up. A lot of those you named simply didn't have that awareness of when to let go of the ball.

It's telling that Bergwijn & Lucas' best moments for the club came when played upfront.
 
Kekerinho said:
Poch is miles better than the actual coach we have.
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This is bait but I’ll bite.

There’s really nothing much in it. From what I’ve seen Ange is clear and Poch’s time at Chelsea has done little to convince me otherwise.

Im harsh on Poch because he went to that cunt of a club but even being objectively has never been good tactically or even really that imaginative in terms of a philosophy. He’s basically a conservative version of Bielsa. There isn’t much you can say is unique to his way of playing the game.
 
Michaelspurs said:
That’s rubbish! We had our moments under Poch but I can remember endless sideways passes too. Ange is far better in my opinion
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I think that from an attacking point of view we are more exciting than under Poch at our best, but defensively we were more solid under Poch.

We only have one season of Ange to compare though, fractured with injuries and suspensions. Need more data to truly compare.
 
Richard Arlison said:
This is bait but I’ll bite.

There’s really nothing much in it. From what I’ve seen Ange is clear and Poch’s time at Chelsea has done little to convince me otherwise.

Im harsh on Poch because he went to that cunt of a club but even being objectively has never been good tactically or even really that imaginative in terms of a philosophy. He’s basically a conservative version of Bielsa. There isn’t much you can say is unique to his way of playing the game.
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And when Plan A failed there was no Plan B but going to those cunts was unforgivable
 
Michaelspurs said:
That’s rubbish! We had our moments under Poch but I can remember endless sideways passes too. Ange is far better in my opinion
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Ange is more exciting, for sure, and I like his personality and football better. But we were more solid at the back under Poch. If Ange can get us tighter on the defensive end, he'll surpass Poch. But on results, Poch is still the yardstick. A manager who got us our two best points hauls and 3 best finishes in the PL with the limited resources he had can't be discounted that easily for one who has been with us for a single season.
 
John Thomas said:
Son is a decent call. But he wasn't signed as a youngster. He was already a decent pedigree when he came.

Harry had been showing signs of frustration for a few years at our lack of direction but his loyalty outweighed his ambition and, ultimately, he was still sold for a mega fee without winning with us.

This is our sticking point. We sign youngsters in the hope of turning them in to superstars.
But if they become superstars, we don't sign the quality of ready made player needed to support them and facilitate them reaching their goals with us.

And so the cycle continues.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"If you play the kids, you can't win anything",

Right?
 
JDefoe said:
I think (hope)that he’s been slightly misused as a transition winger in what are some abysmal teams (Troyes and Burnley, both relegated).

These teams basically have thrown him out, in his first minutes in senior football, to feast on scraps and play as an outlet in transition. In large spaces dueling for the ball, it really is physical tools first. There’s a reason someone like Traoré still starts PL matches, pace and power are king in sides like these.

And then I saw that Burnley played him at #10 on Monday, and my view of him improved exponentially. We desperately need a winger who can do something with the ball and initiate attacks. It just feels like hot potato against a set defense usually. We need a primary ball handler other than Maddison.

To me, and again, I’ve only seen a few bits, transition running is not what Odobert is about. He’s a PSG boy. Favorite player is Neymar. He has possession pedigree. He not only wants the ball, he wants to take responsibility. He wants to come infield, initiate moves, set up passes and runs 3-4 plays ahead. He wants to control the ball. And so these transition based sides that ask him to essentially livewire his way into creating chances on the break are a poor fit for what he really is.

Now, I could be completely wrong, and he may in fact be shit. But what this club has been chasing ever since we missed out on Hazard in 2012, he seems to have.

The thing that the endless string of replacements (N’Jie, Nkoudou, Moura, Bergwijn, Johnson, etc.) have lacked is the mental level. They have skill and pace, but don’t have ann innate ability to control play and initiate a larger attack. When I watch Odobert I see much more than that. He’s the same age as a young Eze (in 2019 at QPR) or Olise in 2021 at Reading, and that’s before they were viewed as stars. Also 3-4 years younger than Bergwijn at PSV and Nkoudou at Marseille when we bought them.
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Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards
 
TeamSpirit™ said:
Wish I could like this post 10x over 👏

In terms of Raw talent, Odobert is comfortably the best of all of those names.

Just having a 1v1 threat that requires constant double teaming will always unsettle the opposition defence. In addition to that he plays with his head up. A lot of those you named simply didn't have that awareness of when to let go of the ball.

It's telling that Bergwijn & Lucas' best moments for the club came when played upfront.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Having players that commit two defenders is key to unpicking set defences, and was missing for us last season.

I'm reminded of a comment from Pep, "We do not pass to move the ball. We pass to move the opposition." I think it's the same with dribbly wingers: you want them to dribble enough to disrupt the defensive shape and then lay it off.
Let's face it, Maradona-esque runs that beat everybody and score a solo goal are rare. A lot of dribblers run down blind alleys or double back and beat the same man three times for no end-product.

But a heads-up dribbler who can move a couple of opponents around, then spot the teammate's angled run into space, weight the pass just right, and maybe even move into a threatening space for the return...

Anyway I'm getting ahead of myself. I hope Odobert does well, he looks promising...
 
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