Player Wilson Odobert

[TeamSpirit™]

Much easier for those teams to win silverware in their leagues though as they don't have as much competition as us.

I'm not convinced that this exact model works in the Premier League, the margins are incredibly fine here - selling Romero for example will set us back more than people think because our rivals will get stronger whilst we will always be waiting for our team to peak.

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Every team runs in cycles though, even the best run ones.

What we need to do is as our nucleus approaches the peak, you then move aggressively for the ready made elite player(s) in whatever position of weakness we have. That’s the lesson we need to learn from 2017-18

 

[GOAT]

It’s been 3/4 of a game, let’s not get carried away.

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He’s not getting carried away, but for heavens sake let people enjoy things !

This guy is going to be exciting for us.

 

[happy pants]

Of course you still need a bit of old school eye test. For example, I get the feeling that data was too heavily leaned on with the Brennan Johnson signing, whereas you can watch Odobert and immediately realise he has all the attributes we’re crying out for.

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I think Brennan was before Lange came on board, but I also don’t have the same issue with him that others do. Seems to be the new whipping boy because spurs fans are a damaged cohort inured to chronic disappointment.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Who’s getting carried away?!

Have I called him the second coming of Gareth Bale?!

We’ve identified the type of winger needed & got him in under the radar for a decent sum.

No need to pour cold water on it.

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I am pretty sure we'd need someone that would help us to get past the defenders and score or assist a goal.

He had nice first 15 mins but did not even create one good chance.

So this "being winger we needed" and "getting it right" is massive overstatement and very much too early.

I liked his technique too. And him running past defender was nice.
But he hasn't proven absolutely anything just yet.

 

[Richard Arlison]

I am pretty sure we'd need someone that would help us to get past the defenders and score or assist a goal.

He had nice first 15 mins but did not even create one good chance.

So this "being winger we needed" and "getting it right" is massive overstatement and very much too early.

I liked his technique too. And him running past defender was nice.
But he hasn't proven absolutely anything just yet.

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Can't prove anything in one game but you can show things.

He showed:

1. He fits the way we play and made us more difficult to defend.
2. Already has good chemistry and understanding with Maddison.
3. Has the type of technical ability we were missing out wide.
4. Works hard out of possession.
5. Is positionally disciplined and a team player in possession.
6. Needs to get fitter to play 90mins of this type of intensity.

 

[Tomo]

Every team runs in cycles though, even the best run ones.

What we need to do is as our nucleus approaches the peak, you then move aggressively for the ready made elite player(s) in whatever position of weakness we have. That’s the lesson we need to learn from 2017-18

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Yeh the Poch debacle is a huge lesson. The season we came 2nd to Chavs we should have gotten 3-4 elite young players straight in. You could already see a slow down the next season when we came 3rd and City won the title.

I think we are to early for a finished elite signing in the £80-100m range but at some point our team is going to be complete mostly then it might be how do we bridge the gap with City and that is when these kinds of players are possibly needed.

 

[TheSpurEst]

This is what we are doing.

1 or 2 established players and elite youngsters we could never afford when they hit their ceiling. Also recruit higher level academy kids too.

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This is absolutely not what we are doing.

We have been tragically shit...absolutely pathetic in reeling in money for our players.
OK, Harry was sold for very good amount for his age. But who was previous top amount of money we received? I'd say Kyle Walker.

2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - 5 years between the two deals.

We've been holding on to players way too desperately for way too long. Just look how Liverpool reckognized that Mane time is up.
Sold him for 40 mil and got replacement in. Look how they replaced Coutinho.
At the same time we "managed" to sell English NT fullback for 20 mil EUR. Let Alli and Dier leave for free, even though both of their stock used to be very high... and so on.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Much easier for those teams to win silverware in their leagues though as they don't have as much competition as us.

I'm not convinced that this exact model works in the Premier League, the margins are incredibly fine here - selling Romero for example will set us back more than people think because our rivals will get stronger whilst we will always be waiting for our team to peak.

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This is total bullshit excuse.

Atletico is fighting WAY WORSE uphill battle in La Liga. They have to overtake not one but TWO teams that are financially superior to everyone else and who were like top 4 clubs GLOBALLY.

All the while we have seen Leicester win the league...

Atleti and Dortmund model would be absolutely doable with our resources. But it is always easier to just throw in the towel and find excuses.

 

[Richard Arlison]

This is absolutely not what we are doing.

We have been tragically shit...absolutely pathetic in reeling in money for our players.
OK, Harry was sold for very good amount for his age. But who was previous top amount of money we received? I'd say Kyle Walker.

2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - 5 years between the two deals.

We've been holding on to players way too desperately for way too long. Just look how Liverpool reckognized that Mane time is up.
Sold him for 40 mil and got replacement in. Look how they replaced Coutinho.
At the same time we "managed" to sell English NT fullback for 20 mil EUR. Let Alli and Dier leave for free, even though both of their stock used to be very high... and so on.

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Who said anything about selling players?

Anyway, we are talking about what we are doing since Lange got started which is last January. It's impossible to talk about us selling young players we have recruited until we get a few windows down the line.

 

[TeamSpirit™]

I think Brennan was before Lange came on board, but I also don’t have the same issue with him that others do. Seems to be the new whipping boy because spurs fans are a damaged cohort inured to chronic disappointment.

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Aesthetics play a huge part in why people don’t warm to Brennan. Even though Odobert didn’t directly contribute to a goal on Saturday, and Brennan did (the 1st), people are going to give Odobert more leeway because he can pul a ball out of the sky and control it almost instantly.

Brennan will never be the most stylish so that means he has even less margin for error when it comes to ball control - you could hear the collective sigh/groan in the 2nd half when he let a Romero pass go under his foot and roll out of play.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Who said anything about selling players?

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Umm... maybe... you'd try to read THE FULL POST that you quote?

Only works if:

- you stick with the idea of football which you alluded to.
- you have an elite scouting operation and by that I mean top 3-4 in the whole league.
- are willing to buy 2-4 elite young players each season. So Gray, Odobert and Bergvall level every year going forward so there is a continuous supply of top young players accepting that maybe 25-50% of them might not quite make it to the elite senior players you need.
- Be willing to sell older players or players who want out and reinvest the money so if Romero wants Madrid at end of the season you sell for £90m and buy 2-3 elite young players with the money.

I guess a Brighton or Dortmund on financial steroids is what I am saying.

I have always felt under ENIC this is the only way we will challenge the likes of Man City, Woolwich, Man United, Liverpool. We can’t do the typical route of elite manager buying already elite players with mega wages, we don’t pay the wages for a start.

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Point is - there should be succession planning in place. And if you want to use your resources smartly you also sometimes have to sell some valuable players. That allows you also to invest more into those young talents. But instead we somehow have hold on to players for too long and until they are worthless.

We will never beat clubs with bigger financial muscle with such player-selling-strategy.
It is stupid and wasteful.

You need very smart recruitment WITH smart selling policy. Not just one.

 

[TeamSpirit™]

This is absolutely not what we are doing.

We have been tragically shit...absolutely pathetic in reeling in money for our players.
OK, Harry was sold for very good amount for his age. But who was previous top amount of money we received? I'd say Kyle Walker.

2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - 5 years between the two deals.

We've been holding on to players way too desperately for way too long. Just look how Liverpool reckognized that Mane time is up.
Sold him for 40 mil and got replacement in. Look how they replaced Coutinho.
At the same time we "managed" to sell English NT fullback for 20 mil EUR. Let Alli and Dier leave for free, even though both of their stock used to be very high... and so on.

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You could argue that it’s this exact reason why Real Madrid are in much better health than Barcelona.

 

[Bazali]

He’s not getting carried away, but for heavens sake let people enjoy things !

This guy is going to be exciting for us.

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And who knows

He might inspire BJ and Timo to also take on defenders at pace!

 

[Shadydan]

This is total bullshit excuse.

Atletico is fighting WAY WORSE uphill battle in La Liga. They have to overtake not one but TWO teams that are financially superior to everyone else and who were like top 4 clubs GLOBALLY.

All the while we have seen Leicester win the league...

Atleti and Dortmund model would be absolutely doable with our resources. But it is always easier to just throw in the towel and find excuses.

Click to shrink...

Atletico have 2 teams who have a higher budget than us and pay more wages, we have 4 and also La Liga isn't nearly as competitive in terms of relative teams strength throughout the league as the Prem, try again.

And also hellooo we're talking about a club which paid over £100m for Joao Felix, £81m for Alvarez and put Connor Gallagher on £200k a week, let's not make out their paupers AND now they're up against an out of sorts Barcelona who haven't got a pot to piss in.

Using Leicester as an example is funny because they're a complete anomaly, that same model you're praising saw them get relegated which shows it's not sustainable.

 

[Shadydan]

Every team runs in cycles though, even the best run ones.

What we need to do is as our nucleus approaches the peak, you then move aggressively for the ready made elite player(s) in whatever position of weakness we have. That’s the lesson we need to learn from 2017-18

Click to shrink...

Do you think selling our best players at their peak would allow us to close the gap on our rivals whilst others are keeping their best players?

Also I forgot to say Dortmund/Atletico/Leipzig etc..can expand their options who they sell to in the market because they often sell to Prem teams...if you want us to adopt the same strategy then we'd have to do the same thing because it's not realistic to think that we're gonna sell to Real Madrid every Summer. So if that's the case then again I don't see how you close the gap on the teams above us especially when they're taking your best players.

 

[happy pants]

Aesthetics play a huge part in why people don’t warm to Brennan. Even though Odobert didn’t directly contribute to a goal on Saturday, and Brennan did (the 1st), people are going to give Odobert more leeway because he can pul a ball out of the sky and control it almost instantly.

Brennan will never be the most stylish so that means he has even less margin for error when it comes to ball control - you could hear the collective sigh/groan in the 2nd half when he let a Romero pass go under his foot and roll out of play.

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Methinks the collective groan is because Brennan is held to an almost impossibly high standard due to his price tag. Odoberg is new, fans haven’t figured out how to be embarrassed by him yet

 

[Richard Arlison]

Umm... maybe... you'd try to read THE FULL POST that you quote?



Point is - there should be succession planning in place. And if you want to use your resources smartly you also sometimes have to sell some valuable players. That allows you also to invest more into those young talents. But instead we somehow have hold on to players for too long and until they are worthless.

We will never beat clubs with bigger financial muscle with such player-selling-strategy.
It is stupid and wasteful.

You need very smart recruitment WITH smart selling policy. Not just one.

Click to shrink...

Are you saying we didn’t sell older players who want out since Ange and then Lange came in?

 

[Richard Arlison]

Atletico have 2 teams who have a higher budget than us and pay more wages, we have 4 and also La Liga isn't nearly as competitive in terms of relative teams strength throughout the league as the Prem, try again.

And also hellooo we're talking about a club which paid over £100m for Joao Felix, £81m for Alvarez and put Connor Gallagher on £200k a week, let's not make out their paupers AND now they're up against an out of sorts Barcelona who haven't got a pot to piss in.

Using Leicester as an example is funny because they're a complete anomaly, that same model you're praising saw them get relegated which shows it's not sustainable.

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Atleti shouldn’t be in this conversation with clubs like Dortmund, Leipzig, Brighton etc

Their model is nothing similar and they have always had bigger wages and average spends than other Spanish clubs. They are the King of Spains favourite club ffs.

 

[VonnegutBusy]

Aesthetics play a huge part in why people don’t warm to Brennan. Even though Odobert didn’t directly contribute to a goal on Saturday, and Brennan did (the 1st), people are going to give Odobert more leeway because he can pul a ball out of the sky and control it almost instantly.

Brennan will never be the most stylish so that means he has even less margin for error when it comes to ball control - you could hear the collective sigh/groan in the 2nd half when he let a Romero pass go under his foot and roll out of play.

Click to shrink...

Haha bit of reach saying Johnson contributed to that first goal. He did a give and go to break into the box and was tackled immediately. Luckily the ball fell to us and it was recycled to Kulu who dribbled through about 3 men before laying it on a plate for a brilliant Bissouma strike.

By that logic you should give Odobert credit for forcing the throw in which led to the second goal.

No surprise people want technically sound players in their team. The best teams are full of them for a reason.

 

[Harrier]

I am pretty sure we'd need someone that would help us to get past the defenders and score or assist a goal.

He had nice first 15 mins but did not even create one good chance.

So this "being winger we needed" and "getting it right" is massive overstatement and very much too early.

I liked his technique too. And him running past defender was nice.
But he hasn't proven absolutely anything just yet.

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Maybe I’m just a glass half full kinda chap?!

Yours doesn’t even seem half empty!