Management Ange Postecoglou

[Deuterz]

Bullshit. Howe's net spent 270m, Ange 240m.

And Ange has world class players like Johnson, Werner, Richarlison, Davies, Royal, Bentancur, Kulusevski, Udogie, Sarr?




Yes, we've done this, how come you can't remember when you're wrong. So when Chelsea spend a billion "it's a mess" but Ange inherits a club that had been in dire shape, playing bus park dogshit football, gets a quarter of what Poch gets value wise, most of it kids, players new to the league and dogshit but he's not cut the same slack as Poch and his impossible task?



We aren't getting worse. We are allowing fewer chances, conceding fewer goals, winning the ball better than anyone in the PL. lot's of things are getting better, we just can't fucking create/score goals, because we don't even have as good a "mess" Poch had last season. We added one fucking 18yo kid to our attack. Despite already having way more attacking quality and options than us, Chelsea went and added Neto and Sancho.



Straw man bullshit. I didn't say "better job" I used the example of the fact that despite the conditions - and the fact that Ange has actually net spent less than Howe has being one of them (and I also think Newcastle spent that 270m net better than our 240m net) - and Howe had had longer to coach his team, Ange still managed to finish above him as evidence that he isn't "out of his depth". Nobody was saying Howe is out of his depth or Poch was, so it's a fucking stupid thing to say about a coach who inherited a fucking mess, a team that needed a complete rebuild and hasn't bought a single top quality footballer, who managed to finish above him last year.

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Ermmmm are you maybe counting the entire time Howe has been at the club? Which is longer than Ange? Since both have been there, there is absolutely zero chance Howe has spent more, lol. They practically didn’t sign someone this window. Their big signing last season got a betting ban for an entire fucking season ya jokester.

Oh please. You KNOW that list isn’t even comparable to the shit Howe inherited. Literal championship players. I don’t like Kulu but he’s a shit load superior to Jacob Murphy. Newcastle would fucking kill to have Udogie !!!!!!



Even if it was true - fuck me, Ange inherited a much better side including a 100m asset we sold. Nobody in the Newcastle team was even worth close to that when Howe took over.

Oh boohoo inheriting a team which was 8th. It was 4th the season before that with a coach there the entire season. And Poch inherited a team way below 8th. Money was spent on about five hundred players which = a season of adaptation. They consistently got a lot better, fucking schooled Ange in the second meeting after both had a season to work with their players. Our results fucking nosedived during the season.

Haha underlying metrics. Look at the points, nobody cares about doing better at things which aren’t getting you points.

His job isn’t even comparable to Howe and Poch got fucking sacked for his! Terrible bloody examples. Next you’ll cite Ten Haag who at least won something.

Our PPG for a very long period is dreadful. Our cup performances suck. Our big game results are dire. We had a halfway alright league season but are 13th. Lots of reasons to think he may be out of his depth.

 

[bus-conductor]

Ermmmm are you maybe counting the entire time Howe has been at the club? Which is longer than Ange? Since both have been there, there is absolutely zero chance Howe has spent more, lol. They practically didn’t sign someone this window. Their big signing last season got a betting ban for an entire fucking season ya jokester.

Oh please. You KNOW that list isn’t even comparable to the shit Howe inherited. Literal championship players. I don’t like Kulu but he’s a shit load superior to Jacob Murphy. Newcastle would fucking kill to have Udogie !!!!!!



Even if it was true - fuck me, Ange inherited a much better side including a 100m asset we sold. Nobody in the Newcastle team was even worth close to that when Howe took over.

Oh boohoo inheriting a team which was 8th. It was 4th the season before that with a coach there the entire season. And Poch inherited a team way below 8th. Money was spent on about five hundred players which = a season of adaptation. They consistently got a lot better, fucking schooled Ange in the second meeting after both had a season to work with their players. Our results fucking nosedived during the season.

Haha underlying metrics. Look at the points, nobody cares about doing better at things which aren’t getting you points.

His job isn’t even comparable to Howe and Poch got fucking sacked for his! Terrible bloody examples. Next you’ll cite Ten Haag who at least won something.

Our PPG for a very long period is dreadful. Our cup performances suck. Our big game results are dire. We had a halfway alright league season but are 13th. Lots of reasons to think he may be out of his depth.

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So Ange inherited a 100m player he never got to play? We sold Kane before he kicked a fucking ball in earnest for Ange.

OK, so nobody cares about anything but points. Thanks, that makes mine. Calling Ange out of his depth when he finished with more points than Howe or Poch last year is stupid.

The rest is just straw man bullshit I didn't argue.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

So according to you all our players are shit, but the manager is fine? That is actually mental. We have lots of top players who are nowhere near close to performing because of our dogshit manager is making them play a shit system that they can't deliver in.

Sorry but the amount of people up Ange's ass on here when he is a 60 year old journeyman coach who has only ever won in Japan and Scotland is fucking mental. It's like a cult. I don't get it. What is there about him that makes anyone think he has the pedigree to have faith in him when we are getting worse and worse?

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Because when it clicks- as it has everywhere else he has coached- even the best teams in the world can't deal with it.

Unfortunately it never really has clicked. Not from what I've seen. This squad has not once played the style of football he is known for. Either the players can't, or they won't, or the message isn't getting across or he has changed how he plays. What is being played by Tottenham isn't Angeball.

 

[tommyboyspurs]

I can't imagine any other owner who could have done better. Can you?
My last post on the matter. ENIC thread for this stuff.

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I never realised levy was on here cover blown

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

Imagine Conte or even Mourinho starting off here and week before opening game star striker leaves and they have to go full first season without a recognised striker?!

Conte’s wig would have blown off by the end of the first month! Conte’s reign would have sucked balls even more without Kane.

Solanke has just returned after injury and needs time to acclimatise to new system and teammates.

Fab Romano said last week zero chance Ange will be sacked soon (quoted on HotspurHQ) . Said Club knows its longer term project . Not sure about zero chance as no one has that in this league but club will give him more time especially as we haven’t exactly been played off the park in openi f four games. Cov was embarrassing

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Pretty bug drop off between the A and B players isn't it?

 

[Deuterz]

So Ange inherited a 100m player he never got to play? We sold Kane before he kicked a fucking ball in earnest for Ange.

OK, so nobody cares about anything but points. Thanks, that makes mine. Calling Ange out of his depth when he finished with more points than Howe or Poch last year is stupid.

The rest is just straw man bullshit I didn't argue.

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He got ONE HUNDRED MILLION which was re-invested! Which skews the net spend as Howe never inherited a player worth anything even like that. And even then in the time they’ve actually been at their clubs, Ange’s net spend is higher and our wage bill (the real marker of success) is far higher.

Yes. Managers get sacked based on results, not underlying metrics. I’ve already said you can’t compare the resources Howe has utilised vs Ange, and Poch got sacked for his performance at Chelsea. Which erm, if you include all competitions, he did better than Ange.

Ange’s PPG has slumped the longer he’s been here. You can ignore this and talk underlying metrics but that’s the reality. We are less and less effective at winning football matches.

 

[sudoku]

I never realised levy was on here cover blown

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You people are so sad.
Go to the ENIC thread and fill your boots.

 

[manmountainbutters]

Because when it clicks- as it has everywhere else he has coached- even the best teams in the world can't deal with it.

Unfortunately it never really has clicked. Not from what I've seen. This squad has not once played the style of football he is known for. Either the players can't, or they won't, or the message isn't getting across or he has changed how he plays. What is being played by Tottenham isn't Angeball.

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The idea the players can’t is laughable. The oppos are two good is the answer you’re looking for

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Because when it clicks- as it has everywhere else he has coached- even the best teams in the world can't deal with it.

Unfortunately it never really has clicked. Not from what I've seen. This squad has not once played the style of football he is known for. Either the players can't, or they won't, or the message isn't getting across or he has changed how he plays. What is being played by Tottenham isn't Angeball.

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Lol...or it can't 'click' in the EPL because the coaches are way better than in Japan and Australia and Scotland and it took them about twelve games to adjust and nullify the system.

It certainly seemed to click the beginning of last season. Are you trying to infer there's something odd or lacking in:Bentancur Bissouma,Romero, Son, Kulu all considerably more talented than any player he has hither to worked with that makes them unable to grasp the far from revolutionary concept of inverting both full backs, and underlapping to have them flood the midfield? Its quite common tactically with one full back. I've seen Conte do it. Nah Occam's razor what seems more likely ? His apologist become more fantastic in their thinking by the day 'the best teams in the world can't cope with Angeball' bloody hell do me a favour.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

Last night was absolutely shit, no other way to put it. In fairness hard to make a true judgement with so many changes to the staring 11.

Given that, the team and Ange both looked deflated. I’m still Ange in. I do think it’s fair to give him this whole season but there are definitely some worrying signs. His inability to adapt mid game in particular. There is no way we can continue to play that system game in game out. We have to adapt depending on the situation.

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The frustrating thing is he KNOWS HOW TO and CAN play different systems and tactics, he just point blank refuses to do it!

 

[Rooster]

The frustrating thing is he KNOWS HOW TO and CAN play different systems and tactics, he just point blank refuses to do it!

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I don't think he does. He never did anywhere else. Remember that Chelsea game where we had 2 reds and he still played high line and we got destroyed.

 

[bus-conductor]

He got ONE HUNDRED MILLION which was re-invested! Which skews the net spend as Howe never inherited a player worth anything even like that.
And even then in the time they’ve actually been at their clubs, Ange’s net spend is higher and our wage bill (the real marker of success) is far higher.

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Yeah, Howe didn't get 100m to spend, but he didn't loose a 100m of player either you nitwit. Net spend is net spend, stop smoke and mirroring. Howe's had more net spend on his team than Ange. Our payroll is £1991K, Newcastle's is £1896K they are almost identical.

Howe's also had longer to work with his team. Last season Howe started with a CL quality team, and despite all that finished below "out of his depth" Ange.

Yes. Managers get sacked based on results, not underlying metrics. I’ve already said you can’t compare the resources Howe has utilised vs Ange, and Poch got sacked for his performance at Chelsea. Which erm, if you include all competitions, he did better than Ange.

Ange’s PPG has slumped the longer he’s been here. You can ignore this and talk underlying metrics but that’s the reality. We are less and less effective at winning football matches.

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I'm not ignoring anything. I said based on last season, and used Poch and Howe as examples, saying Ange is out of his depth is ridiculous. I also said saying what we play is dogshit is ridiculous.

I stand by both of those, and none of your straw manning the shit out it hasn't changed that.

 

[kcspurs]

So according to you all our players are shit, but the manager is fine? That is actually mental. We have lots of top players who are nowhere near close to performing because of our dogshit manager is making them play a shit system that they can't deliver in.

Sorry but the amount of people up Ange's ass on here when he is a 60 year old journeyman coach who has only ever won in Japan and Scotland is fucking mental. It's like a cult. I don't get it. What is there about him that makes anyone think he has the pedigree to have faith in him when we are getting worse and worse?

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‘Cause in his second year he always wins things, put yer feet up and enjoy the show.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

The idea the players can’t is laughable. The oppos are two good is the answer you’re looking for

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Lol...or it can't 'click' in the EPL because the coaches are way better than in Japan and Australia and Scotland and it took them about twelve games to adjust and nullify the system.

It certainly seemed to click the beginning of last season. Are you trying to infer there's something odd or lacking in:Bentancur Bissouma,Romero, Son, Kulu all considerably more talented than any player he has hither to worked with that makes them unable to grasp the far from revolutionary concept of inverting both full backs, and underlapping to have them flood the midfield? Its quite common tactically with one full back. I've seen Conte do it. Nah Occam's razor what seems more likely ? His apologist become more fantastic in their thinking by the day 'the best teams in the world can't cope with Angeball' bloody hell do me a favour.

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Even in those two or twelve games the *style* of football wasn't Angeball. Angeball has wingers that can go past their man inside or outside, are capable of delivering to a johnny-on-the-spot striker with impeccable timing and excellent finishing. In the midfield there is a number six that keeps it all ticking over, creative mid that can pick a pass.

Name Tottenhams 6- Bissouma? Bentacur? Pfftt.

Name the flying wingers and the clinical striker. There literally is no-one like that.

Of course, the argument could be made that he has to play with what he has. Pragmatism.

But that's not what he does. He had Australia's League 1 level players attempting prime Barca playing out from the back against the Netherlands in the WC and England at Wembley FFS. It could very well cost him his job. And he still won't change.

 

[Aphex]

Lol...or it can't 'click' in the EPL because the coaches are way better than in Japan and Australia and Scotland and it took them about twelve games to adjust and nullify the system.

It certainly seemed to click the beginning of last season. Are you trying to infer there's something odd or lacking in:Bentancur Bissouma,Romero, Son, Kulu all considerably more talented than any player he has hither to worked with that makes them unable to grasp the far from revolutionary concept of inverting both full backs, and underlapping to have them flood the midfield? Its quite common tactically with one full back. I've seen Conte do it. Nah Occam's razor what seems more likely ? His apologist become more fantastic in their thinking by the day 'the best teams in the world can't cope with Angeball' bloody hell do me a favour.

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Exactly. Look at what has happened to Son. Yes he's old but he's not even getting chances. Guess what a top coach would do? They would implement a system that would get the best out of Son, Maddison, Bentancur, Kulu, hell even Johnson. But Ange isn't. He's sticking to his system even though it's clearly not working.

Son is our best finisher and he's not getting a sniff of a chance at the moment. He's completely impotent. A manager regardless of their principles, must get the best out of their squad, or they will be out of a job.

Ange isn't getting results, and the performances have been pretty boring in all honesty. Yes we keep possession but our chance creation is awful. And I mean good chances particularly. Solanke was anonymous yesterday, against a average championship reserve side. It's embarrassing.

Since the new manager bounce finished he's been one of the worst Spurs managers in decades from a results perspective.

 

[Rooster]

Yeah, Howe didn't get 100m to spend, but he didn't loose a 100m of player either you nitwit. Net spend is net spend, stop smoke and mirroring. Howe's had more net spend on his team than Ange. Our payroll is £1991K, Newcastle's is £1896K they are almost identical.

Howe's also had longer to work with his team. Last season Howe started with a CL quality team, and despite all that finished below "out of his depth" Ange.



I'm not ignoring anything. I said based on last season, and used Poch and Howe as examples, saying Ange is out of his depth is ridiculous. I also said saying what we play is dogshit is ridiculous.

I stand by both of those, and none of your straw manning the shit out it hasn't changed that.

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In Howe's defense, Newcastle was riddled with injury last season and like us they lacked depth.

 

[Deuterz]

Yeah, Howe didn't get 100m to spend, but he didn't loose a 100m of player either you nitwit. Net spend is net spend, stop smoke and mirroring. Howe's had more net spend on his team than Ange. Our payroll is £1991K, Newcastle's is £1896K they are almost identical.

Howe's also had longer to work with his team. Last season Howe started with a CL quality team, and despite all that finished below "out of his depth" Ange.



I'm not ignoring anything. I said based on last season, and used Poch and Howe as examples, saying Ange is out of his depth is ridiculous. I also said saying what we play is dogshit is ridiculous.

I stand by both of those, and none of your straw manning the shit out it hasn't changed that.

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HE DIDN'T FUCKING HAVE ANY 100M PLAYERS. Good fucking god. His team were in the relegation zone when he took over the fucking club. Talking about net spend when comparing a team who started with Son and Kane compared to a team who were in the relegation zone is beyond thick. You're starting from completely different levels. And even then, our net spend is lower purely due to Howe being there longer.

"Net spend is net spend" Ange has been here less fucking time than Howe. Compare the squad value of Spurs compared to the squad value of Newcastle. We have the 6th highest payroll according to spotrac, they have the 9th. So they have a less valuable squad and spend less on wages.

A "cl quality team" you absolute jokeman. Good god. Against the Aussie Howe had a backline of Pope, Livramento, Burn, Kelly and Krafth the other day. He turned them in to a "CL" team by virtue of insane over-performance, that isn't a CL level squad by any stretch of the imagination. They start Longstaff WEEKLY.

Ange would be shipping five a game with that backline. We're shaky enough with Udogie, VDV, Romero, Vicario and Porro.

You used a sacked manager and a manager who took over a team in the relegation zone. The examples suck, find some better ones.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

I don't think he does. He never did anywhere else. Remember that Chelsea game where we had 2 reds and he still played high line and we got destroyed.

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He did adjuts as recently against City in that game. Its not that he can't set up a 9 man team to defend on the edge of their box. He simply refused to do it.

He himself said it was about getting the players to buy in. He also said to the players any consequences are on him not them. And you know, there were chances to win the game playing that way. It could have papyed off-the upside hto that would have been huge. Its obviously very high risk and he can be criticised him for it, but thats why did it

 

[Deuterz]

In Howe's defense, Newcastle was riddled with injury last season and like us they lacked depth.

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No - not like us. Our depth went to Milan and Bayern. Emerson and Dier aren't good but they sure as shit are better than Krafth, Murphy, Longstaff, Burn etc. These are championship to low level PL players.

We have way better depth than they do by virtue of being established as a top 6 PL team for a very long time compared to them, they're still a mix of the players Howe has brought in, and players who were at a relegation fighting side.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Ermmmm are you maybe counting the entire time Howe has been at the club? Which is longer than Ange? Since both have been there, there is absolutely zero chance Howe has spent more, lol. They practically didn’t sign someone this window. Their big signing last season got a betting ban for an entire fucking season ya jokester.

Oh please. You KNOW that list isn’t even comparable to the shit Howe inherited. Literal championship players. I don’t like Kulu but he’s a shit load superior to Jacob Murphy. Newcastle would fucking kill to have Udogie !!!!!!



Even if it was true - fuck me, Ange inherited a much better side including a 100m asset we sold. Nobody in the Newcastle team was even worth close to that when Howe took over.

Oh boohoo inheriting a team which was 8th. It was 4th the season before that with a coach there the entire season. And Poch inherited a team way below 8th. Money was spent on about five hundred players which = a season of adaptation. They consistently got a lot better, fucking schooled Ange in the second meeting after both had a season to work with their players. Our results fucking nosedived during the season.

Haha underlying metrics. Look at the points, nobody cares about doing better at things which aren’t getting you points.

His job isn’t even comparable to Howe and Poch got fucking sacked for his! Terrible bloody examples. Next you’ll cite Ten Haag who at least won something.

Our PPG for a very long period is dreadful. Our cup performances suck. Our big game results are dire. We had a halfway alright league season but are 13th. Lots of reasons to think he may be out of his depth.

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Very good post.

Lose against Brentford and I think it's simply becoming more and more difficult to see where and why there can be any confidence that things will change for the better.

What evidence is there?