Manager Ange Postecoglou

[TheSpurEst]

Sooo... we are 11 games into the season.

Porro and Udogie have started both 11 games.
Between themselves they have 1 goal and 2 assists. So 3 goal contributions combined for 22 appearances for players that push extremely high and are supposed to help us on attacking side.

That is definition of total garbage.
Our wings are overcrowded and there are acers of space to be found behind the lines.

People keep sayin "oh, but what would improve when there would be another manager in charge?!?".
I can tell you my view-

First of all, new manager could keep the current pressing tactics, but stop with this absurdity with fullbakcs that is not producing anything. But their normal positioning would help in defensive side. It would be an upgrade that can be done as quick as flip of switch.

Another thing - solidify midfield. Play 2 deeper CMs that can take room away from opposition players so that they could not run straight to our box. Right now we are absolutely overcowded in some areas and leave others totally abandoned.

So talking of current crop of players, that is how I'd like us to line up -

----------Vicario---------
Porro-Romero-VDV-Udogie
-----Sarr---Bentancur---
Kulusevski-Madders-Son
-----------Solanke---------

yeye, I know, Kulu on the RW is not fully optimal, I know that, but this would be a next step in improvement - to get in a READY-NOW-RW in January window. And one fullback as well.

So in 3 steps we'd play totally different football that would increase our chances in a cup from current 0,01% to maybe like... 5% ?
Cause right now... I cannot stress this enough - our current system allowed even COLCHESTER to score against us. And also 3 sides from bottom 6 of EPL in Leicester, Crystal Palace and Ipswich. 3 games out of which we racked up massive 1 point.

 

[Kuya]

Where you at

Click to shrink...

Funny, you didn't think to reply after West Ham, City, or Villa games. You seem very keen to prove a point too.
18th Oct our last exchange... Sort of proves it isn't ALL bad really, otherwise you'd have posted that a lot sooner, right?

It is incredibly inconsistent though.

We are not the only inconsistent team, while we do keep having these shit results / performances, we are still just 3 points from 3rd, and we are also capable of the sort of performances like Spam, City and Villa.
If we didn't even have those, I would be more impatient.
Until all hope is removed and we are playing shit every game, I want to believe in this manager, as difficult as he makes it sometimes

Also under Levy there is no hope for any manager. Might as well let Ange's reign run its course and maybe against all odds he actually does win something. He is our manager for now, we should try to enjoy it.... there is ZERO guarantee that the next one will be better... it can always get worse. Once that new bounce euphoria wears off, they are all just a few losses away from being turned on anyway.

 

[Yiddy]

Looking at the fixtures right now I'll be surprised if he makes it past Chelsea away.

 

[Aphex]

Even if Slot had come here it wouldnt have changed anything, hed still get bought sub-standard players and be at a club with a loser mentality. The standard story for us of something costing a little too much (8th richest club in the world, new stadium built so we could "compete" etc) and therefore the powers in charge of the club pass on it and go for a cheaper option they HOPE will come good (a' la Poch). They tried the "experienced manager approach" and fucked that up too

Its genuinely depressing

Click to shrink...

I agree with this. Slot was the one I wanted and I was gutted it didn't happen. However Liverpool have world class players in many positions.

The likes of Jota, Diaz, Salah, Nunez walk into our side. Liverpool have invested lots of money into building a squad which can challenge.

Slot would be working with Werner, Johnson and Odobert. Liverpool are set up to challenge for major honours, Spurs are a joke in comparison under Levy.

 

[Yiddy]

And these types of performances are happening with too much regularly. It's one thing to have an occasional off day or an unlucky game but 2nd half vs Brighton,crystal palace,Galatasaray,Ipswich is happening far too much to be able to say oh it's just 1 bad game.

 

[jp22]

I am not anti Ange, but there definitley needs to be a change of approach for certain games. Yesterdays defeat is totally unacceptable. To expect wins against Palace and Ipswich is not a big thing and to be 2-0 up against a positional (sort of) rival at half time and to go on to win is not asking a huge amount.

Ange (and players) has failed on those 3 occasions. Montgomery and Jedinak, jesus christ what a joke to have those at a top club, they should be let go and proper coaches brought in. Ange is a good coach and could be top class if he was willing to change things a litte or at least adapt to certain games.

However, we lack leaders.
Romero has lost interest
No proper ball carrying no 6
No left side defence back up/competition
No versatile inverted right winger that can play AM/second striker
Sonny is on a serious decline and is a better no 9/upfront but that position is locked out .

We will need 7 or 8 signings over the next 2 windows and moving on some figures who play a big role at the moment (Romero/Son/Porro). This, of course, is where the criticsm of Levy comes in and rightfully so. Some terrible, terrible decisions over the years and complete non backing. Its getting better and needs to improve, Levy must get out the chequbook and continue to do so.

To the Ange out crowd. Who else could possibly come in?. Yes, there is an argument to say another manager could get more out of the current squad, some very good footballers there. But they will face the same challenges.

In order to play angeball or in fact conte ball, you need serious quality defence and strong defence/holding/versatile midfield. Porro cannot defend, Romero is mentally not present, left side back up and no #6. Vicario is a liability on crosses and is the big man on the younger guys which, while in theory is a good thing, bit of a red flag when its in front of the cameras.
So that leaves MVDV who prone to injury, Dragusin who is an old school defender and under ange ball not exactly comfortable but is a real asset, Udogie- who can be inconsistent- young but hes a really good baller. Yves at #6, hmm we know the issues.

Want to win a trophy? Leaders, solid compact defecne with a versatile midfield in front of you.

A couple of additions in January and slight change in approach for certain games could see Spurs top 4, but will that happen this season?. Ange probably needs a bit more time but he has to change his coaching staff and approach. If I am Romero/Son/VDV/Kulu, do I honestly respect a Hibernian reject and a mate of Ange's?. To note; Maddison needs a kick up the hole.

If Ange is unwilling to change that and these results keep happening, it becomes no choice but Ange out. Comes with a warning shot though and be careful what we wish for so on and so forth.

6 points against a team bottom of league (early in the season) and a newly promoted team (at home!!) and 3 points from 2-0 up at half time is not much to ask for. This, along with the "this is who we are" are why I have serious questions about Ange at the moment. I imagine, I am not the only one.

We are not too far off and one win against a team above us puts us back into top 6 and 3 off top 4 (assuming some other teams above us win the same matchday we win)

 

[TheSpurEst]

Sooo... we are 11 games into the season.

Porro and Udogie have started both 11 games.
Between themselves they have 1 goal and 2 assists. So 3 goal contributions combined for 22 appearances for players that push extremely high and are supposed to help us on attacking side.

That is definition of total garbage.
Our wings are overcrowded and there are acers of space to be found behind the lines.

People keep sayin "oh, but what would improve when there would be another manager in charge?!?".
I can tell you my view-

First of all, new manager could keep the current pressing tactics, but stop with this absurdity with fullbakcs that is not producing anything. But their normal positioning would help in defensive side. It would be an upgrade that can be done as quick as flip of switch.

Another thing - solidify midfield. Play 2 deeper CMs that can take room away from opposition players so that they could not run straight to our box. Right now we are absolutely overcowded in some areas and leave others totally abandoned.

So talking of current crop of players, that is how I'd like us to line up -

----------Vicario---------
Porro-Romero-VDV-Udogie
-----Sarr---Bentancur---
Kulusevski-Madders-Son
-----------Solanke---------

yeye, I know, Kulu on the RW is not fully optimal, I know that, but this would be a next step in improvement - to get in a READY-NOW-RW in January window. And one fullback as well.

So in 3 steps we'd play totally different football that would increase our chances in a cup from current 0,01% to maybe like... 5% ?
Cause right now... I cannot stress this enough - our current system allowed even COLCHESTER to score against us. And also 3 sides from bottom 6 of EPL in Leicester, Crystal Palace and Ipswich. 3 games out of which we racked up massive 1 point.

Click to shrink...

Ah, sorry, one more step to add- STRIP SON OF ARMBAND and have manager that actually fucking does something during the game.

Right now when things don't go our way, there is 0 instructions coming from the stands AND 0 communication between the players (!!) on the pitch. I see no one actually grabbing others by collar. I see no regrouping and firing others up while on the pitch.

So to sum it up shortly -

1) Change the captain to someone who just does not wimp like a sad puppy and actually talks to other players and reminds them their responsibility towards fans (!) and fucking give instructions during the game not only during HT talks.
2) Change the structure and drop fullbacks deeper, so they would not cram up the wings and be ready to defend. YES I know they are not traditional defending fullbacks, but being in deeper position still will improve their defending.
3) Change to 4-2-3-1 system that is suited to most of our players in reality.
4) Get in a starting quality RW for this system and one more fullback.

After those 4 very simple and doable steps we would change everything beyond recognition.

 

[Dark Shadow]

Interesting point brought up by Comedy Gold overnight which he said he would bring up in a future presser.(Good luck with that) He has noticed that there seems to be a dead zone between Porro and Powderpuff that teams keep exploiting.

 

[Matt1882]

Fucking laughable that people are having a go at this squad.

Good coaches can always get their players playing to their very best, even if 10 of them are carrying the 11th.
This set of players is miles better than we're showing and a good coach will get them playing slightly better even than that.

I'd be offering Bournemouth whatever they and Iraola want right now.
He's getting more out of that team than the sum of its parts. That's exactly what we need. With City, Woolwich, Newcastle, United all faltering, we need to take advantage, not fall (further) behind the lot of them.

 

[Cranston]

Supported us longer than i care to remember and i cant think of one other manager that has got so much loyalty from such little substance. The defence of being 10th, losing 10 of 18, never keeping clean sheets is staggering. 2024 is going to be one of our worst ever years results wise. Looking forward to the contortions when we're 12th, 13th, 14th over the coming weeks because pretty certain thats where we'll be.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely.

1979 for me. I’ve never known a manager to benefit from such a forced narrative. Even the term ‘Angeball’ makes me cringe. You don’t get a brand of football named after you for winning the SPL.

 

[Don Pedro]

We lack leaders in the dressing room. I couldn't imagine a Van Dijk, Rodri, Dias type leader allowing players to keep switching off in games. They would get a complete bollocking! There seems to be this carefree attitude going into every game. This probably comes from Ange too as he insists on us going out and playing our football with the shackles off.

You can't blame young players like Udogie, Sarr and Brennan. The fact they are allowed play with such freedom is what has given them such growth, but they are young players and probably fall into the naive category where they take games like yesterday for granted. A team with proper leaders would make sure this is not happening. Son is probably not that "Roy Keane" type of captain. This is something Ange needs to address. He's picked this squad and this leadership group but if we keep coasting into games thinking it'll be a piece of cake, then this is going to keep on happening.

The second half of Brighton should have been the final straw. 2-0 up and our captain Romero probably started thinking about his flight to Argentina and that seeps into the team. Brighton upped it a gear and we froze! That should have been the final straw. But no, we went into the Palace and Ipswich games after good wins, and the same thing happened again.

Its so frustrating because you watch us play when we are 100% interested and everyone is giving 100%, and we are one of the best teams in the league. But the mentality is pathetic, and thats on everyone. Dropping below 100% for over 50% of your league games is a shocking inconsistency. All our wins have been by more than one goal, while all our defeats have been by a single goal. We either blitz teams or else fold in a tight game.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

I feel like I'm in an endless time loop...Or I am one of the few people with a working memory.

Yeah, Ange needs to go. He isn't up to it blah blah.

But for those that think his leaving is going to trigger miracles and make us consistent please wake up. The squad is pants. And that's an insult to pants everywhere.

None of them have a winners mentality. And that's on Levy.

So regardless of who manages. Dr Tottenham and Spursy are going nowhere. Nor are defeats to the likes of Ipswich and Palace.

We thought sacking Conte would solve everything and I can remember people claiming the squad was better than the results then as well.

 

[Matt1882]

And anyone saying we're only 3 points behind Woolwich is ignoring mitigating factors.
It's only 10 games in. 1.9 ppg vs 1.6 ppg is 72 points to 60 over a season.
And THEN there's the fact they have had to come away to us (and won, again), away to Villa (who beat them twice last year) and won, away to City (title rivals) and drew, home to Liverpool and drew, away to Chelsea and drew.

Arse have had an awful run of fixtures but they have taken points from everyone around them.
We, on the other hand, have been blessed with a relatively easy first 10 games and fucking lost to relegation fodder as well as the usual suspects like Arse and Newcastle.

Our 1.6ppg is definitely flattering us. I've been saying for weeks that all those wins we racked up were hard to use given the opposition. Now even the lower oppos is beating us.

 

[GDG]

Ok I’m going to buck the trend of the last few pages and declare I’m not Ange out yet, albeit my patience is now starting to wear a little thin and I can understand why people are ready to move on.

Here are a few of my thoughts:-

• The inconsistency is just baffling and so frustrating. 1 point from Leicester, Palace and Ipswich; it’s mental. Imagine where we would be right now and the feel around the place with 9/9 in those. Ange has to find a greater level of consistency otherwise he won’t be here much longer.
• Obviously we cannot keep a clean sheet for love nor money and that seems to be the root of many of our issues. Whilst there are systemic problems within that, the biggest for me is that we are far too keen to try to win the ball back. That’s all well and good when we’re pressing in the offensive 3rd, you need to take gambles, but when the ball makes its way into our half we need to be thinking more about how we stop the opposition scoring, and less about how we win the ball back.
• The second goal yesterday was an evidence of this, Ipswich had made their way into our half, Bentancur needs to know that the high percentage play to stop them scoring is to stay on his feet and usher the guy wide. He’s so keen to win the ball back that he lunges, missing the tackle and allows a 3 on 2 down our right side. Romero’s tracking shoddy too but the Bentancur reference is consistent throughout some of the goals we’ve conceded this season.
• We’ve seen 3 or 4 of those this season from Romero already, and Udogie has been culpable too (turned by Bowen trying to nick the ball). When the opposition make their way into our half we have to think about how we stop them scoring, not how we create a counter.
• The main reason I’m not yet Ange out is because when it clicks it does look glorious. Utd first half perhaps the best example. The million dollar question is can we find some consistency? It’s getting harder to believe we will.
• I said this last season, I said it in the summer and I’ll say it every week until it changes - our forward line isn’t very good and lacks an elite level player within it. Son has occasional flashes but isn’t that anymore at all, Solanke is ok and works really hard but he’s not a game changer, Odebert and Moore are very young and Werner and Johnson offer zero technically. Juxtapose those front line players with what Salah / Saka in particular offer. They impact the game and they make defenders wary for the full 90 mins. Our wide players are very easy to mark and stop impacting the game if you don’t allow space behind. Solanke has been decent thus far and his work ethic is top notch, but he should have scored 2 yesterday. He’s never going to be world class in his position.
• Our transfers, particularly in the forward areas have been shit. Lots of money spent (on the face of it) but generally for mid-level players without high wage demands. Someone on here the other day was saying “where are all the people that wanted Chiesa”. He forgot that the 2 names fans really wanted were Neto and Gyokeres, who have both been excellent this season.
• I don’t yet think Ange has actually played his best XI (or my best XI might be more appropriate). I’d like to see Biss and Bentancur CM personally but Ange seems to see them as interchangeable 6’s.
• Perhaps my biggest concern is that it feels like we’ve had a soft schedule so far. Only 2 of the traditional top 6 played (including the worst of those) and only 2 of the current top 7. This was the time to put some distance between us and the pack.

It’s a young team with a lot of gaps and there have been signs that when it works it looks great which is why I’m not at sacking point yet, but it does have to get better and quickly.


COYS. Going to to be a long couple of weeks!

 

[Aphex]

I feel like I'm in an endless time loop...Or I am one of the few people with a working memory.

Yeah, Ange needs to go. He isn't up to it blah blah.

But for those that think his leaving is going to trigger miracles and make us consistent please wake up. The squad is pants. And that's an insult to pants everywhere.

None of them have a winners mentality. And that's on Levy.

So regardless of who manages Dr Tottenham and Spursy are going nowhere. Nor are defeats to the likes of Ipswich and Palace.

We thought sacking Conte would solve everything and I can remember people claiming the squad was better than the results then as well.

Click to shrink...

There are definitely areas of the team to improve, like Johnson at RW. However someone like Iraola would have our squad punching above it's weight.

The reason we think the squad is pants is because of Ange. Look at how well we can play when the team are on it, that would be far more common under someone like Iraola, or a top manager.

 

[McCOYS]

I'm losing interest this season.

 

[Aphex]

We lack leaders in the dressing room. I couldn't imagine a Van Dijk, Rodri, Dias type leader allowing players to keep switching off in games. They would get a complete bollocking! There seems to be this carefree attitude going into every game. This probably comes from Ange too as he insists on us going out and playing our football with the shackles off.

You can't blame young players like Udogie, Sarr and Brennan. The fact they are allowed play with such freedom is what has given them such growth, but they are young players and probably fall into the naive category where they take games like yesterday for granted. A team with proper leaders would make sure this is not happening. Son is probably not that "Roy Keane" type of captain. This is something Ange needs to address. He's picked this squad and this leadership group but if we keep coasting into games thinking it'll be a piece of cake, then this is going to keep on happening.

The second half of Brighton should have been the final straw. 2-0 up and our captain Romero probably started thinking about his flight to Argentina and that seeps into the team. Brighton upped it a gear and we froze! That should have been the final straw. But no, we went into the Palace and Ipswich games after good wins, and the same thing happened again.

Its so frustrating because you watch us play when we are 100% interested and everyone is giving 100%, and we are one of the best teams in the league. But the mentality is pathetic, and thats on everyone. Dropping below 100% for over 50% of your league games is a shocking inconsistency. All our wins have been by more than one goal, while all our defeats have been by a single goal. We either blitz teams or else fold in a tight game.

Click to shrink...

But who appointed Son Romero and Maddison as the leaders? Ange. Son was a terrible choice as captain, he has no charisma or leadership qualities. Nice guy but he's no Keane is he. That's not even considering the fact he's way past it and shouldn't even be a guaranteed starter.

Then Ange appoints Romero as vice captain who clearly wants out, and has rewarded us with the most diabolical season from a CB we've seen for years.

He also then appoints Maddison who is the definition of a fair weather powderpuff player. Can't make a tackle to save his life.

It is all on Ange. His choices have been naïve and horrendous. His tenure has been an epic failure in every way imaginable in my mind.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

And anyone saying we're only 3 points behind Woolwich is ignoring mitigating factors.
It's only 10 games in. 1.9 ppg vs 1.6 ppg is 72 points to 60 over a season.
And THEN there's the fact they have had to come away to us (and won, again), away to Villa (who beat them twice last year) and won, away to City (title rivals) and drew, home to Liverpool and drew, away to Chelsea and drew.

Arse have had an awful run of fixtures but they have taken points from everyone around them.
We, on the other hand, have been blessed with a relatively easy first 10 games and fucking lost to relegation fodder as well as the usual suspects like Arse and Newcastle.

Our 1.6ppg is definitely flattering us. I've been saying for weeks that all those wins we racked up were hard to use given the opposition. Now even the lower oppos is beating us.

Click to shrink...

Agreed but its 1.45 ppg this season. Equates to 55 pts over a season but havent played City, Liverpool or Chelsea so i think even that is flattering us

 

[Distaste for scouse]

There are definitely areas of the team to improve, like Johnson at RW. However someone like Iraola would have our squad punching above it's weight.

The reason we think the squad is pants is because of Ange. Look at how well we can play when the team are on it, that would be far more common under someone like Iraola, or a top manager.

Click to shrink...

Iraola is just the latest flavour of the month. Yeah he's doing well at Bournemouth. But that's Bournemouth and this is Spurs. Do you honestly think Iraola will get rid of Spursy? Do you think he can motivate this lot to play for 90 minutes every week not just when they fancy it, where the previous managers including proven managers like Conte failed?

This is the about the bigger picture.

To be clear I want Ange gone, but the problems aren't going away when he leaves. Even if we get Guardiola.

 

[Larry David]

Iraola would just be the shiny new toy, the same shit would happen, we’d sign mediocre players and he’d hit a ceiling

It’s happened with young managers, old managers, defensive managers, attacking managers

There’s one constant and we won’t be successful until that is removed

Sacking Ange just starts the whole process all over again, it’s boring