• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Manager Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

We know that when we have been cooking under Ange, we have been excellent, and you could certainly see the foundations of a title challenge in the next couple of years.

BUT, once again, as momentum builds the board once again fails to back the manager.

After losing Kane; and still managing the finish 5th, despite a season littered with injuries - we lose experienced players in Skipp, Royal, Dier, Holjberg, Perisic - and replace them with Grey, Yang, Odobert, Solanke, Bergvall. 4 x 18 years olds and a striker who is bang average.

With our history of injuries - why on earth did well sell arguably our leader and best player last season in Holjberg????? A man that has never been injured. A warrior. Yet we kept Bentencaur who has a serious knee injury that will likely mean he never really plays at a decent level again; and Bissouma who plays every game like its a kickabout with his mates down the local park.

So, either the club acknowledges that we will be shite for 3-4 years whilst these kids learn how to play football; or they are entirely inept.

ANGE and his system can only be judged when he has the players available. Grey, Bergvall, Sarr, Dragusin, Moore, Odobert aren't ready to be starters. They should be getting minutes in cups, or off the bench. Not starting games. It's no accident that Liverpool don't have anyone under 21 in their squad; and their matchday squad is typically all 24+ with 1 kid rotated.

The experienced players in our squad are Richy, Solanke, Maddison, Bissouma, Kulu, Son and Romero. All but Kulu are in torrid form and none of them are leaders.
 
Phomesy said:
Amorim has been trying to get his team to play that system for months and he's now calling his team the worst United team in history because they simply won't get it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Amorim's trying to play it with 2 offensively challenged fullbacks which in practice turns into a back 5 far too often. They're simply toothless, they're not giving up 3 goals in a single half against a team that had scored 15 in the previous 20 matches. Porro and even Spence/Udogie are miles better than guys like Dalot and Mazraoui offensively, this aforementioned danger of a back 5 is not nearly as significant for a team like ours.
Phomesy said:
I think we can possibly cut Postecoglou some slack for having 48 hours to try out a system forced by losing 3 first team played in 72 hours.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Like I said, people had been speculating about it for a long time. There was no excuse for him to resort to this under such dire circumstances, with far from ideal personnel available. It's obvious that our wingers are poor, that Solanke would love to have at least one player in his close promixity that'll play off of him, that if it's possible to get anything out of players like Son and Johnson it has to be in a more central role where they can channel most of their efforts towards goal scoring. Why did it take so long?
Phomesy said:
At least he seemed open to idea which, as you say, is not a bad one in principle. And might be employed by the caretaker if/when they take over.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Regardless of the result, I would have been willing to give him credit for his willingness to try new things if not for what he did with Gray. He watched as we left the right side of the pitch wide open for 45 mins, because he apparently was expecting Gray to play RCB and DM simultaneously.
 
Slav said:
I think the biggest indictment is that it took getting to this point for him to make the shift - one of desperation rather than adapting sooner. Even then, it looked a right mess. It was only ever going to have disastrous consequences on a short turnaround with a makeshift team, at least half of whom seem like they're always playing out of position.

Players have off days, but the VAST majority of the blame has to go to poor coaching and management.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not sure how he was supposed to train and play a back 3 during an injury crisis affecting all of our centre backs?

He got Davies back and in the same 72 hours lost Bissouma, Johnson and Solanke. So he tried to adapt. It didn't work. It hasn't worked for Amorim who has been trying it for months with a fully fit United squad.

I'm just not sure this is the stick to beat him with. Personally I think he should have stuck with his usual set up and started Lankshear but I'm not an expert unlike everyone else on here :D
 
BJK said:
Amorim's trying to play it with 2 offensively challenged fullbacks which in practice turns into a back 5 far too often. They're simply toothless, they're not giving up 3 goals in a single half against a team that had scored 15 in the previous 20 matches. Porro and even Spence/Udogie are miles better than guys like Dalot and Mazraoui offensively, this aforementioned danger of a back 5 is not nearly as significant for a team like ours.


Like I said, people had been speculating about it for a long time. There was no excuse for him to resort to this under such dire circumstances, with far from ideal personnel available. It's obvious that our wingers are poor, that Solanke would love to have at least one player in his close promixity that'll play off of him, that if it's possible to get anything out of players like Son and Johnson it has to be in a more central role where they can channel most of their efforts towards goal scoring. Why did it take so long?

Regardless of the result, I would have been willing to give him credit for his willingness to try new things if not for what he did with Gray. He watched as we left the right side of the pitch wide open for 45 mins, because he apparently was expecting Gray to play RCB and DM simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See my reply to Slav Slav

Look you're probably right and I'm no expert unlike the experts on here BUT I will just note that Postecoglou was specifically hired not to play a back 3/5 because all the geniuses on here and elsewhere demanded we never do that again after they got Nuno/Conte sacked.

So I'm not surprised he hasn't trained the team extensively in that formation especially not when most of our centre backs haven't been available 🤷‍♂️

As a non expert I would like structure - even if that means starting a teenage striker over Son or Maddison or even Kulu
 
harry7 said:
We know that when we have been cooking under Ange, we have been excellent, and you could certainly see the foundations of a title challenge in the next couple of years.

BUT, once again, as momentum builds the board once again fails to back the manager.

After losing Kane; and still managing the finish 5th, despite a season littered with injuries - we lose experienced players in Skipp, Royal, Dier, Holjberg, Perisic - and replace them with Grey, Yang, Odobert, Solanke, Bergvall. 4 x 18 years olds and a striker who is bang average.

With our history of injuries - why on earth did well sell arguably our leader and best player last season in Holjberg????? A man that has never been injured. A warrior. Yet we kept Bentencaur who has a serious knee injury that will likely mean he never really plays at a decent level again; and Bissouma who plays every game like its a kickabout with his mates down the local park.

So, either the club acknowledges that we will be shite for 3-4 years whilst these kids learn how to play football; or they are entirely inept.

ANGE and his system can only be judged when he has the players available. Grey, Bergvall, Sarr, Dragusin, Moore, Odobert aren't ready to be starters. They should be getting minutes in cups, or off the bench. Not starting games. It's no accident that Liverpool don't have anyone under 21 in their squad; and their matchday squad is typically all 24+ with 1 kid rotated.

The experienced players in our squad are Richy, Solanke, Maddison, Bissouma, Kulu, Son and Romero. All but Kulu are in torrid form and none of them are leaders.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The fact is Postecoglou signed off on the summer transfer window. Never once during the summer transfer window did he say they are not backing me.

Also the whole thing where you say we are really cooking under Ange I assume you are talking about the Brentford, Everton, Villa and West Ham games. I suggest you rewatch them and at the same time rewatch the Newcastle and Brighton away this season as the perfect antithesis to these matches. The fact is all the matches where we are really “Cooking”, we do it for a really short period of time and it is where our press has caused chaos with their defence and we score a lot of goals over a short period of time.

The fact is without the press Postecoglou’s Spurs do not create clear cut chances. Ange’s attacking patterns at Spurs seem to isolate our forward Players. Quite often Solanke is the only player in the whole penalty area with our “Wingers” on the touch line quite often double up on because our build up is so slow.
 
enfield1985 said:
The fact is without the press Postecoglou’s Spurs do not create clear cut chances. Ange’s attacking patterns at Spurs seem to isolate our forward Players. Quite often Solanke is the only player in the whole penalty area with our “Wingers” on the touch line quite often double up on because our build up is so slow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We have scored the 2nd most goals in the EPL this season. The main issues are not having a decent number 6 or a defense.

Our midfield doesn't cut out transitions; and our defense has low quality and inexperienced players. We actually missed Johnson yesterday, who helps our Porro in defense. Bergvall and Sarr played like you expect you kids to do - running around with lots of enthusiasm, but always getting pulled out of position and losing the ball.
 
Phomesy said:
See my reply to Slav Slav

Look you're probably right and I'm no expert unlike the experts on here BUT I will just note that Postecoglou was specifically hired not to play a back 3/5 because all the geniuses on here and elsewhere demanded we never do that again after they got Nuno/Conte sacked.

So I'm not surprised he hasn't trained the team extensively in that formation especially not when most of our centre backs haven't been available 🤷‍♂️

As a non expert I would like structure - even if that means starting a teenage striker over Son or Maddison or even Kulu
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sorry, I should have made the distinction of "a shift" rather than being a 3-3-3-1 formation or whatever the fuck it was Ange attempted to do yesterday.

Great managers hold to their principles while respecting the strengths of their tools at hand in how they set up and coach the team imo. That doesn't necessarily mean abandoning structure - it's about getting the best out of available squad and respecting your opponent. The biggest backroom teams that football has ever seen, and e.g. we continue playing Son and BJ as touchline wingers when it's clearly not in their wheelhouse (and nor has it ever been).

Not sure why you feel the need for condescending allusions of "experts on here", btw.
 
He has done it to himself. To not even try to develop a subset of tactics in the PL is crazy. With all the injuries the players needed protection. Instead they were told to gung-ho attack attack attack. Again playing out from the back - we are creating opportunities for the opposition. Why cant Ange just give the keeper a license to hoof it under certain circumstances. He embraces his own limitations by bragging about not knowing a different way to play. The game v Chelsea last season was comical. Playing a highline down to 9 men isn't brave, its stupid. In miliary terms it would be the equivalent charging an enemy from the low ground.

We sack Ange, we carry on being Tottenham Hotspur, but Ange has made himself almost unemployable after this. No top PL would touch him, and the Crystal Palace's, Brentfords, Wolves ect would now allow a manager with no defensive nous as he could literally get a weaker and smaller club relegated. We are too big to go down, but Ange he is the type of manager to take Bournemouth who are flying at the moment, back down to the second division.

If he has the chance to take a pay day in Saudi Arabia, he should take it.
 
harry7 said:
We know that when we have been cooking under Ange, we have been excellent, and you could certainly see the foundations of a title challenge in the next couple of years.

BUT, once again, as momentum builds the board once again fails to back the manager.

After losing Kane; and still managing the finish 5th, despite a season littered with injuries - we lose experienced players in Skipp, Royal, Dier, Holjberg, Perisic - and replace them with Grey, Yang, Odobert, Solanke, Bergvall. 4 x 18 years olds and a striker who is bang average.

With our history of injuries - why on earth did well sell arguably our leader and best player last season in Holjberg????? A man that has never been injured. A warrior. Yet we kept Bentencaur who has a serious knee injury that will likely mean he never really plays at a decent level again; and Bissouma who plays every game like its a kickabout with his mates down the local park.

So, either the club acknowledges that we will be shite for 3-4 years whilst these kids learn how to play football; or they are entirely inept.

ANGE and his system can only be judged when he has the players available. Grey, Bergvall, Sarr, Dragusin, Moore, Odobert aren't ready to be starters. They should be getting minutes in cups, or off the bench. Not starting games. It's no accident that Liverpool don't have anyone under 21 in their squad; and their matchday squad is typically all 24+ with 1 kid rotated.

The experienced players in our squad are Richy, Solanke, Maddison, Bissouma, Kulu, Son and Romero. All but Kulu are in torrid form and none of them are leaders.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do you have a persistent cough?
 
harry7 said:
We have scored the 2nd most goals in the EPL this season. The main issues are not having a decent number 6 or a defense.

Our midfield doesn't cut out transitions; and our defense has low quality and inexperienced players. We actually missed Johnson yesterday, who helps our Porro in defense. Bergvall and Sarr played like you expect you kids to do - running around with lots of enthusiasm, but always getting pulled out of position and losing the ball.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Now I know you are trolling. Johnson does NOT help Porro.

And we scored lots of goals in some games. There are a decent number of games where we’ve only scored 1 goal and a one with none.
 
Murphy said:
Now I know you are trolling. Johnson does NOT help Porro.

And we scored lots of goals in some games. There are a decent number of games where we’ve only scored 1 goal and a one with none.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Go look it up. Johnson is top 2 in all stats for defending for attacking players. Like him or not, he puts in a shift winning the ball back and closing down players. Tackles, interceptions, pressing, clearances. Thats why Ange plays him so much, and Porro always gets exposed when he's not playing.
 
harry7 said:
Go look it up. Johnson is top 2 in all stats for defending for attacking players. Like him or not, he puts in a shift winning the ball back and closing down players. Tackles, interceptions, pressing, clearances. Thats why Ange plays him so much, and Porro always gets exposed when he's not playing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
lol. Actually watch the games and see what he does. He has a knack for being in the right place and has scored a lot of important goals for us but he’s fucking lazy and his creative output is disgraceful for a winger. 2 assists in the league all season is shocking.

He does not track back, he does not anticipate or give the midfield many options and he doesn’t fucking run at defenders.
 
rusty said:
the club wants Ange out ? have you seen how we are playing and our league position ?
Most managers here would have been sacked months ago, but the club have kept him here how is that "the club want Ange out"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I meant that they wanted him out back early December. They would have bought players in by now if they wanted to keep him. They just thought, let this play out and let the fans all turn on him and then we sack him
 
harry7 said:
Go look it up. Johnson is top 2 in all stats for defending for attacking players. Like him or not, he puts in a shift winning the ball back and closing down players. Tackles, interceptions, pressing, clearances. Thats why Ange plays him so much, and Porro always gets exposed when he's not playing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Johnson does not do those kinds things. Stat pish again. I’ve seen him tackle about 3 times in 20+games. He’s always just off the press because he won’t sprint to close down. Clearances? I could get a monkey out of the zoo to clear the ball!!
We certainly did not miss him yesterday.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top