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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Richard Arlison said:
He’s not to blame for them, no.

It’s ok you don’t need to know what to say, I just find it amusing that people really bought into blaming him.
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Richard Arlison said:
The only compounding effect I see is fatigue leading to injuries leading to fatigue.
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But wait.
You have multiple times here very strongly praised our relentless pressing and how we win the ball back close to opposition goal.

And one would imagine that constant intense pressing high in opposition half takes a very intense effort.
Also this is statistically and factually proven - whenever we are leading game in EPL, we take the least time to put the ball back into play.
Here is link of that - Which Premier League Teams Time-Waste the Most? | Opta Analyst ; so we put ball 8 seconds faster into the play then for example Aston Villa. If there are say 12 stoppages. It amounts to 96 seconds of extra recovery time. In a level where every 0,00..% counts.
Which gives less recovery time. Which in term means more intense input from our players.

And then, when you have logics explained, let's double check the outcomes of it.
Like for example the extent of injury crises in ongoing season. And season before. Last season was worst I've ever seen for us. This season tops it by a mile.
So two worst injury-hit seasons back-to-back. Under both manager is Ange.

So you have logics explained. And you can see actual, factual and real life examples.
But you rather go with "oh it is amusing, Ange has nothing to do with it because I think so". Nice. Really well argumented point!
 
TheSpurEst said:
Was ETH a brilliant manager for ManU ?
Would you have kept him in charge if it was your decision to make?
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This is a line Richard Arlison keeps trotting out, only because we are still (just) in the cups

Sport is in part about winning trophies, but it very obviously isn’t just that.

Would any of us honestly rather have these performances than peak Poch performances? Oh, but we didn’t win anything …

I want us to win trophies. And I want us to play well. If Ange had delivered a few trophies but league form was so-so then fine. But he hasn’t.
 
Richard Splash said:
We could go down and some would still want him in - who would be better at getting us out of the champ? We need to back him in the summer window and buy that striker from Carlisle? He will deliver the Johnston’s screwfit milk Vase this season.

Then when we finish 12th in the champ it will be “are you not entertained”
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Sign Of The Cross Omg GIF by NEON
 
CarrieFi said:
My dad used to play a bit of football himself back in the day (with Dave MacKay’s son, funnily enough) and he’s been telling me for ages that he thinks players do too much gym work nowadays
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Or maybe they don’t do enough? Many modern players look a bit weedy these days. I remember when football players usually had solid quads on them. Now they all look a bit skinny and more like endurance runners. You need a little bit of muscle on your legs to help prevent injury. Some of them now look like a strong gust of wind would knock them over.

Dave Mackay would have snapped most of this squad in half with one of his tackles.
 
CerealMaterial said:
Would anyone swap Ange for Amorin?
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Actually I would.

I saw ManU vs Newcastle.
Amorim fucked up with selection. Conceded 2 goals.
Acted right away, took off Zirkzee and put on Mainoo and it had impact.

From there on they were very much in game and LOT less open in defense.

I know perfectly well that Ange would have just stood there with grim grimace and would have seen us concede 4-6 goals with first half.

Also ... well... since appointment he has taken ManU above us in the table...
Also he is in starting phase, trying to instill his way into players. Not having had 60 games where results keep getting worse.
Also he is 39 so very much still learning and developing. Not 59 and close to retirement.

So in short - yes.
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
That's a seperate issue. Clearly we have decided to change things but pretending the players were sharing one physio and the medical team under resourced is speculative junk. And Conte was allowed to bring a large team. It was Ange chose to come in with zero back room, which shows how fucking clueless the bloke is. NO serious head coach behaves this way
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Who said they were sharing one physio, no need for such drams. Do you know for a fact that every dept is fully sourced, despite the glaring fact the football team.aint and has never been near fully sourced. We may have the best facilities, but we are talking about a board who were willing to cut concessions left right and centre so I have no issue thinking the same is possible in any dept.
Ange certainly ain't without guilt here, Jedenik in particular , who has no experience , certainly looks like a foolish addition, but only time will tell if he cuts the mustard. I trust levy with nothing, he has proven time and time again he will do anything to cut corners , he has put off clubs and chairmen all over Europe from dealing with him again.
 
Raf said:
It seems to play a part in the injuries.

How much squad depth do we need. It’s starting to look like we’d need to spend city money to make it work.

If we were 10th, I could understand. But 15th is inexcusable.
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I think that given the restrictions/constrictions put upon us by the ownership, any manager at spurs that wants to be successful needs to be willing and able to actually integrate players from the academy into the team. Since we are most likely never going to be bale to build a truly deep squad through the market. So the academy has to supplement it.

Poch lasted as long as he did because he started out as a very good youth and player developer (and some kudos needs to be given to Sherwood who was the one to actually lift guys like Harry, Nabil and Mason into the first team squad so that Poch could work his magic once he arrived). He was great at taking what he was given in the market and making the most out of it and giving guys like Winks a god in the senior team.

This obviously caps us as far as actually pushing for a league title goes unless we hit a golden generation. But we should still be able to fight for the 4th-7th place in the table and go far in cups.
 
TonySoprano said:
Or maybe they don’t do enough? Many modern players look a bit weedy these days. I remember when football players usually had solid quads on them. Now they all look a bit skinny and more like endurance runners. You need a little bit of muscle on your legs to help prevent injury. Some of them now look like a strong gust of wind would knock them over.

Dave Mackay would have snapped most of this squad in half with one of his tackles.
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Who knows

Football wasn’t really played at the intensity it is now either
 
TonySoprano said:
Or maybe they don’t do enough? Many modern players look a bit weedy these days. I remember when football players usually had solid quads on them. Now they all look a bit skinny and more like endurance runners. You need a little bit of muscle on your legs to help prevent injury. Some of them now look like a strong gust of wind would knock them over.

Dave Mackay would have snapped most of this squad in half with one of his tackles.
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It's a balance. Too much muscle and you use up too much energy feeding them. Those sorts of players are never gonna run 10k a match and be at a high level by the end of the match. You can't overcome biology without chemical cheating.
Too little muscle and you get battered. Unless you're a Modric type who was a freak really.

Like it not though, football is more a running semi-contact sport than a full on contact sport. Being overly big and strong for most positions isn't useful.
Most players are 5ft 9 to 6ft 3 these days. You don't see too many short players or freakishly large players. They're a true 5ft 9 as well. When Dave from the office, who says he's 5ft 10 to the birds stands next to them, he'd look small. Cause he is.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Was ETH a brilliant manager for ManU ?
Would you have kept him in charge if it was your decision to make?
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Haha! The main reason I wanted United to win the final? There was just a chance that Lord Rat and Co would lose their nerve and keep him on. Ignoring - Coverntry, Palace, Brighton Brentofrd and God knows how many APPALLING performances the team put in. They manged to avoid losing to LFC 3 times, but really the 2 I saw LFC shouldve knocked em for 6. In the FA Cup tie they had as many chances as they did v us in the 3-6, couldve had 10.

And they did!! The ONE performance - albeit a bit lucky with a gifted goal and a number of scrapes at 2-1!! The ONE performnce,m final game of the season.

"Yep, he's the one for us!"

In the unlikely event we win cup, it wouldnt change my view - he's got to go. Just not good enough.

If we won 2 cups, again, he's got to go.

UNLESS - BIG IF: he completely revamps his approach and we can keep clean sheets. but 3 all season? Just don't see it.
 
TheSpurEst said:
But wait.
You have multiple times here very strongly praised our relentless pressing and how we win the ball back close to opposition goal.

And one would imagine that constant intense pressing high in opposition half takes a very intense effort.
Also this is statistically and factually proven - whenever we are leading game in EPL, we take the least time to put the ball back into play.
Here is link of that - Which Premier League Teams Time-Waste the Most? | Opta Analyst ; so we put ball 8 seconds faster into the play then for example Aston Villa. If there are say 12 stoppages. It amounts to 96 seconds of extra recovery time. In a level where every 0,00..% counts.
Which gives less recovery time. Which in term means more intense input from our players.

And then, when you have logics explained, let's double check the outcomes of it.
Like for example the extent of injury crises in ongoing season. And season before. Last season was worst I've ever seen for us. This season tops it by a mile.
So two worst injury-hit seasons back-to-back. Under both manager is Ange.

So you have logics explained. And you can see actual, factual and real life examples.
But you rather go with "oh it is amusing, Ange has nothing to do with it because I think so". Nice. Really well argumented point!
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1. Yes, he is playing an extra intense style with less timewasting.
2. Yes that does place extra demand on the players.
3. That’s what he was recruited to do.

So,

If the club has cut the wage bill by 35m in one summer and replaced senior players with 18 year olds who can’t be thrown straight in to start the season. Is that still Ange’s fault if players start picking up injuries?

Also,

He has actually adjusted the press to be less intense as the injuries hit. That’s not me saying that, it’s been noted and shows out in our pressing stats.

And,

Vicario - not intensity related

Romero - was an ankle knock from a challenge then had a completely different injury after 3 weeks break. Ange even held back his return.

Richarlison - injury prone since he arrived at the club. Nobody in their right mind can blame Ange for those.

So really you could try and blame Ange for Hamstrings and of those, Odobert had hardly even played when he got injured and VDV definitely wasn’t being overplayed. Davies and Udogie happened as a direct result of the compound effect of other injuries and for Udogie Spence getting a ridiculous second yellow for a blatant dive.
 
Shadydan said:
Why is that, where are they going?

They can't just suddenly up and leave when they feel like it? :D
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You and I both know that if there’s an opportunity to make money Levy more often than not takes it, Berba, Modric… if players feel they’re can play at a higher level then they make a fuss until they get let go. I get they have contracts, but it’s something we’ve seen time and time again.

Player gets annoyed, wants to move, kicks up a fuss, eventually they let him go so it doesn’t affect the rest of the team.

I did say, I’m not saying all of them will go, however I think it’s naive to just assume we start next season with the same set of players if we keep letting Ange take us lower.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Actually I would.

I saw ManU vs Newcastle.
Amorim fucked up with selection. Conceded 2 goals.
Acted right away, took off Zirkzee and put on Mainoo and it had impact.

From there on they were very much in game and LOT less open in defense.

I know perfectly well that Ange would have just stood there with grim grimace and would have seen us concede 4-6 goals with first half.

Also ... well... since appointment he has taken ManU above us in the table...
Also he is in starting phase, trying to instill his way into players. Not having had 60 games where results keep getting worse.
Also he is 39 so very much still learning and developing. Not 59 and close to retirement.

So in short - yes.
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There’s a lot of people comparing Ange to Amorim. It doesn’t make any sense.

Ange has had three transfer windows, a number of these players are ‘his’. He’s had a season and a half to get ideas across, and for players to adapt to his “system”.

Amorim, hasn’t finished his full transfer window yet and I think United are buggered with PSR until they sell first, he doesn’t therefore have any players he has wanted for his system, he’s got an old, creaking poorly put together squad.

They aren’t at the same stage in their journey here, Ange has had more time and backing and shouldn’t be sat under Amorim in the table.
 
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