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Management Levy / ENIC

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Levy In or Levy Out

  • Total voters
    358
dudu said:
You don't need to explain to me pop psychology about addiction and its relation to comfort - the two are not connected and using Alli as an example to push a narrative whilst twisting it so it can kinda fit into what you are saying is not right IMHO.
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Your stance is classic contrarian , looking for small footholds to argue a point on interpretation of words and ignoring the big picture
Ok , I’ll make it simpler for you . Let’s take out Dele , even if his downfall was his own & or neglect from the club.

Are you happy how the footballing side of THFC is run ? Are we performing at our potential best?
Do you think it’s a ruthless , professional footballing organisation ?
 
Furball man said:
Your stance is classic contrarian , looking for small footholds to argue a point on interpretation of words and ignoring the big picture
Ok , I’ll make it simpler for you . Let’s take out Dele , even if his downfall was his own & or neglect from the club.

Are you happy how the footballing side of THFC is run ? Are we performing at our potential best?
Do you think it’s a ruthless , professional footballing organisation ?
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The bigger picture for me is that I do not believe players just come and put on their slippers - i don't see this happening with the bulk of our players and the ones you have listed are well-known for the issues that come with them - Tanguy, Maddison - you can see similar things said about them from before they came to spurs - so that is an issue with recruitment for me.

I am not happy with the current situation at Spurs, no. Our football and current ability to adapt to the difficult situation we are in definitely lends itself to the idea that we are not ruthless enough but it is also not though, in my opinion, a lack of trying to some degree.

I don think any club goes through 15 years pretty much of Eurpoean qualification and cementing itself as a top 5/6 side without being a professional footballing organisation - In the last 20 odd years we have finished consistently higher in the league more than any other time in our history.

I grant you, since moving to the new stadium, things have been shit and we have been going backwards on the pitch, but in many ways i am happy with the way we are as a club focussing on what we lack for many years to do which is ensure that we have a crop of very exciting players coming through.

Vicario, Kinsky, VDV, Udoigie, Sarr, Vuskovic, Bergvall, Moore, Odobert, Gray are all in my opinion excellent signings with more than just some promise. They are hopefully going to be setting the foundation for a team for our short-term success. Many of the other more experienced players we have signed also, on paper, seem like they should complement those and add some experience but we are not seeing them reach their potential right now - and it is unfortunate but this seems largely due to Ange and his inability to progress the team pragmatically.

Solanke, Richarlison, Bissouma, Bentancur, Romero, Maddison, Porro - there is a team in there.

Can we be run better, sure, could we be more ruthless? Explain how - what do you see as ruthlessness form other footballing outfits that you feel we are missing?
 
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Brian Fantana said:

View: https://x.com/slbsn/status/1882340063218168251?s=46
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What would add some context to this is evaluating every club's dip, when it happened and why it happened. My guess which is more than a little bit educated due to looking into this is it shows a cycle of players who have been at the club for a long period of time and amassing huge wages, leaving and a new cycle starting of bringing in younger players on lower wages and then increasing their wages as they stay for longer periods. Hence why our 1 year decrease coincides with us moving on Kane, Lloris and the wast that was Ndombele.... and why our 5 + 8 year increases are actually in line with or above the others..
 
dudu said:
What would add some context to this is evaluating every club's dip, when it happened and why it happened. My guess which is more than a little bit educated due to looking into this is it shows a cycle of players who have been at the club for a long period of time and amassing huge wages, leaving and a new cycle starting of bringing in younger players on lower wages and then increasing their wages as they stay for longer periods. Hence why our 1 year decrease coincides with us moving on Kane, Lloris and the wast that was Ndombele.... and why our 5 + 8 year increases are actually in line with or above the others..
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It’s the relative level and the wage:income ratio that is damning of Levy
 

View: https://x.com/solventspurs/status/1882398658915971133

In this case, I don't really think the club had any involvement in Scott deciding to get paid for his revenge piece after getting fired.

But the Sami Mokbel piece was way too familiar and then this comes out and it starts to look strategic.

Meanwhile all this will likely achieve is put more focus on their lack of action in the transfer window. Even Ange Out fans will be saying fuck your media briefs to blame the coach, go and buy some fucking players.
 
dudu said:
What would add some context to this is evaluating every club's dip, when it happened and why it happened. My guess which is more than a little bit educated due to looking into this is it shows a cycle of players who have been at the club for a long period of time and amassing huge wages, leaving and a new cycle starting of bringing in younger players on lower wages and then increasing their wages as they stay for longer periods. Hence why our 1 year decrease coincides with us moving on Kane, Lloris and the wast that was Ndombele.... and why our 5 + 8 year increases are actually in line with or above the others..
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Yes we know the nuisances, but those players haven’t been replaced with similar quality on similar wages (partly) hence why we are 15th in the league.
 
dudu said:
Vicario, Kinsky, VDV, Udoigie, Sarr, Vuskovic, Bergvall, Moore, Odobert, Gray are all in my opinion excellent signings with more than just some promise.
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The club should be more ambitious than this.

Some good players listed. They might come good, but they might not. Udogie and Sarr are already starting to struggle. We’ve seen nothing of Odobert or Moore. VdV and Gray look the business.

There’s always the risk of tricking ourselves into thinking that young players are guaranteed to develop simply by affording them more time at an earlier stage. In fact, all you work out is whether they’re good enough quicker.

ENIC love this profile of player because you don’t have to pay them high wages.

It’s not good enough. If we have any even remote intention of competing, we need to transfer in players that demand 200k plus a week. Yes, Solanke was £65 million. But we got him because he’s on 125k a week. There are Chav players you’ve never heard of that earn that.
 
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Gatsby said:
Levy and co aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The club is no longer just a football club, it's now an entertainment business with a football team in the background.
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Plenty to have a go at about the owners, but this is hyperbole and stuff like this dilutes the actual arguments against their ownership.

We are in no way whatsoever an entertainment company with a football team in the background.

Let’s say we hadn’t built the stadium and we’re still at WHL. What would the club be worth? £2-3b? And a mile down the road there was a venue that put on the odd concert, boxing match, etc and had a karting track. That company might be worth £300 - £500m? Numbers plucked out of my arse to be fair, but the general point stands.

ENIC are an investment company. They aren’t ignoring the big money in favour of the small. Why on earth would they do that? We could never grow the entertainment side of things to the level of the football club, unless we were putting on daily events. Even then, it would be a stretch.

Are they fucking up the running of the club right now? 100%. Are they seeing it as a background annoyance? Fuck no. The club is where the money and therefore where the priority lies.
 
AberdeenYid said:
We are in no way whatsoever an entertainment company with a football team in the background.
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How can you say that with confidence and such certainty?

That is exactly what THFC in 2025 looks like.

A cynical person may draw the further conclusion that now neutrals, and away supporters, are turning up in Tottenham areas of the ground, on a regular basis, due to the perceived lack of ambition, Levy may have concluded he is no longer bothered at all about placating the traditinal THFC fan base in his money making schemes.

The football club are just responsible for paying Levy's mortgae on the megadome these days.
 
Kosher Kid said:
How can you say that with confidence and such certainty?

That is exactly what THFC in 2025 looks like.

A cynical person may draw the further conclusion that now neutrals, and away supporters, are turning up in Tottenham areas of the ground, on a regular basis, due to the perceived lack of ambition, Levy may have concluded he is no longer bothered at all about placating the traditinal THFC fan base in his money making schemes.

The football club are just responsible for paying Levy's mortgae on the megadome these days.
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Because of the money I would imagine each side of their business would be worth without the other. Football club is worth so much more than an entertainment company. Obviously worth more together, but there’s no way an investment company ignores the biggest money in the portfolio.

As for caring about traditional fans, I don’t think he gives a flying shit and I’m sure he’d prefer there weren’t any. More money per ticket, more spent in the shop, more spent on food & beverage, more staying in the fancy new hotel, less hassle, no booing, no Levy Out. That’s what I would want if I ran an investment company.
 
AberdeenYid said:
Because of the money I would imagine each side of their business would be worth without the other. Football club is worth so much more than an entertainment company. Obviously worth more together, but there’s no way an investment company ignores the biggest money in the portfolio.

As for caring about traditional fans, I don’t think he gives a flying shit and I’m sure he’d prefer there weren’t any. More money per ticket, more spent in the shop, more spent on food & beverage, more staying in the fancy new hotel, less hassle, no booing, no Levy Out. That’s what I would want if I ran an investment company.
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I'm no expert but what it looks like to me is that ENIC are reducing the Spurs players wage bill so the money saved from the TV revenue can be used to pay the mortgage on the megadome.

This then allows Levy and ENIC to sell tickets, merch, food and drink, to football, NFL, boxing and music fans along with anything else the stadium hosts.

The theory was that the money from other events would support the football club.

It doesn't look like that at the moment to me. In fact; it looks the complete opposite of that.

I may have this completely wrong of course.

I will wait with a wry smile to be knocked into a cocked hat by the Levy enthusiasts who still want to defend this shit.
 
dudu said:
The bigger picture for me is that I do not believe players just come and put on their slippers - i don't see this happening with the bulk of our players and the ones you have listed are well-known for the issues that come with them - Tanguy, Maddison - you can see similar things said about them from before they came to spurs - so that is an issue with recruitment for me.

I am not happy with the current situation at Spurs, no. Our football and current ability to adapt to the difficult situation we are in definitely lends itself to the idea that we are not ruthless enough but it is also not though, in my opinion, a lack of trying to some degree.

I don think any club goes through 15 years pretty much of Eurpoean qualification and cementing itself as a top 5/6 side without being a professional footballing organisation - In the last 20 odd years we have finished consistently higher in the league more than any other time in our history.

I grant you, since moving to the new stadium, things have been shit and we have been going backwards on the pitch, but in many ways i am happy with the way we are as a club focussing on what we lack for many years to do which is ensure that we have a crop of very exciting players coming through.

Vicario, Kinsky, VDV, Udoigie, Sarr, Vuskovic, Bergvall, Moore, Odobert, Gray are all in my opinion excellent signings with more than just some promise. They are hopefully going to be setting the foundation for a team for our short-term success. Many of the other more experienced players we have signed also, on paper, seem like they should complement those and add some experience but we are not seeing them reach their potential right now - and it is unfortunate but this seems largely due to Ange and his inability to progress the team pragmatically.

Solanke, Richarlison, Bissouma, Bentancur, Romero, Maddison, Porro - there is a team in there.

Can we be run better, sure, could we be more ruthless? Explain how - what do you see as ruthlessness form other footballing outfits that you feel we are missing?
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Ruthless & professional. Again you took one word 😔

Ruthless , as Aberdeen said , getting shot of trash quicker not tolerating amateur ish balls ups like the Doherty farce as one example , professional as in getting the right team to run the club as a priority

Romero , contract up in 2027, Porro the same . The status quo will not keep them here , Romero is already moaning

Richarlison? Eh? The others have talent but no consistency, maybe that’s due to over playing , weak squad , maybe it’s mindset but let’s be honest, how many of them walk into a top team?

Our best performers of late have been teenagers

Anyways you seem fairly content with the situation
 
ILSpur said:
We can all rightfully criticize Ange for any number of things, but the greatest argument for keeping Ange in his seat is that Levy is such a cunt that no manager will work so it really doesn’t matter if it’s Ange or not.

Fine, get rid of Ange and bring in the next poor sucker that is on a ticking clock to getting to go on vacation early with a fat payout.

Don’t get me wrong, there will always be someone who will fill the void but it will never be because they believe in the club and project, only because the payday will be too nice to pass up, that’s it. Even then we will miss out of actually promising managers because they will know what a toxic and dead end role they have to look forward to.
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Reading the news from the NFL about the Jaguars firing their general manager after he led the team downward following a modicum of recent success, and then the team was passed over by top head coach candidates because they won't work with that general manager, I couldn't help but think about our situation with Spurs - only the man responsible for all the carnage at Spurs can't be fired.

We're like Dallas... we have the worst sort of ownership you can have, that which is deeply involved in the day to day operations of the club but is incompetent at producing results. If you had a hands-on but capable owner you'd be fine, if you had an absentee owner at least they wouldn't be mucking things up. But we're of all fans most miserable in our situation and you can't get rid of an owner until Father Time or some extraordinary situation takes care of it.
 
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kcspurs said:
Reading the news from the NFL about the Jaguars firing their general manager after he led the team downward after a modicum of recent success, and then the team was passed over by top head coach candidates because they won't work with him, I couldn't help but think about our situation with Spurs - only the man responsible for all the carnage at Spurs can't be fired.

We're like Dallas... we have the worst sort of ownership you can have, that which is deeply involved in the day to day operations of the club but is incompetent at producing results. If you had a capable owner you'd be fine, if you had an absentee owner at least they wouldn't be mucking things up. But we're of all fans most miserable in our situation and you can't get rid of an owner until Father Time or some extraordinary situation takes care of it.
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No but we can keep the ownership and replace the CEO (Levy). He might keep his role as owner, or perhaps he sells his stake but either way he stands down. This is far more likely than a 5Bn acquisition. I’s sure even Levy is having doubts and is fatigued
 
Kosher Kid said:
I'm no expert but what it looks like to me is that ENIC are reducing the Spurs players wage bill so the money saved from the TV revenue can be used to pay the mortgage on the megadome.

This then allows Levy and ENIC to sell tickets, merch, food and drink, to football, NFL, boxing and music fans along with anything else the stadium hosts.

The theory was that the money from other events would support the football club.

It doesn't look like that at the moment to me. In fact; it looks the complete opposite of that.

I may have this completely wrong of course.

I will wait with a wry smile to be knocked into a cocked hat by the Levy enthusiasts who still want to defend this shit.
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We appear to have passed a critical point where Tottenham Hotspur Football Club was the focus of the business. THFC still exists, of course, but the primary focus is commercial projects. The NFL is much more profitable than the Premier League and getting an NFL franchise (and being able to afford to buy in when the time comes) is probably now the focus. Spurs could eventually be the secondary tenant of the stadium. Spurs would never have had to build the stadium they did if their focus was on the football club.
 
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