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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Deuterz said:
He doesn't have a plan. We ditched the league because we were dead in it. Because it was too hard for us to compete with other in form premier league teams. He decided a long time ago that going for a cup was "easier" than developing the consistency of a league team so we threw everything at them/it.

It's a hail mary which has paid off because the europa league is fundamentally weaker than the premier league. Both him and Amorim played the same card, the result was a crap-fest where both teams looked terribly coached but we won because we had that moment.

Sorry, but I'm not buying any of this "buy in to his philosophy" nonsense because he won a cup. If this was true Di Matteo would be a footballing genius.
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Mate I fully expected the euphoria to get to the easily swayed. The jam tomorrow promises of a head coach who has contradicted himself at every turn. But it's not going to simply sweep under the carpet the last 18 months because he gets to say I told you so. There's supposedly a thorough audit of the football operation under way, if some of the stuff I've heard is true they will need more than his bluff charm to keep him. They are fully aware that this happened with Ten Hag, if they think they can get a better coach they will bin him.
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
Mate I fully expected the euphoria to get to the easily swayed. The jam tomorrow promises of a head coach who has contradicted himself at every turn. But it's not going to simply sweep under the carpet the last 18 months because he gets to say I told you so. There's supposedly a thorough audit of the football operation under way, if some of the stuff I've heard is true they will need more than his bluff charm to keep him. They are fully aware that this happened with Ten Hag, if they think they can get a better coach they will bin him.
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I'm genuinely scared. I think with the fan support and noise from the media now they will be too scared to get rid of him whilst he's on a high - it was always my biggest fear.

This club now faces its Ten Haag moment - do we stick due to a cup win or do we make the correct, sensible decision and base it on the quality of coaching.
 
Deuterz said:
I should have added, it won't change based on this season. Of course if we go in to next season and genuinely look like a very well coached team amongst our peers week to week then I'll eat humble pie. Until that, winning the Europa League doesn't even come close.
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I can see what you’re saying; and you may well be correct .

But for now :

Well let’s see: life surprises us all !
 
Deuterz said:
I should have added, it won't change based on this season. Of course if we go in to next season and genuinely look like a very well coached team amongst our peers week to week then I'll eat humble pie. Until that, winning the Europa League doesn't even come close.
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It's crazy if you look at the teams we beat to get the cup and ask where they would all finish in the EPL you get a bit of context with the joy. With United it's probably 16th. Bodo?
 
Deuterz said:
I'm genuinely scared. I think with the fan support and noise from the media now they will be too scared to get rid of him whilst he's on a high - it was always my biggest fear.

This club now faces its Ten Haag moment - do we stick due to a cup win or do we make the correct, sensible decision and base it on the quality of coaching.
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Let's see what the world looks like after Brighton and Paratici getting his feet under the desk. I think he will be pushed early close season.But I understand your fear. It would be a horrendous error .
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
It's crazy if you look at the teams we beat to get the cup and ask where they would all finish in the EPL you get a bit of context with the joy. With United it's probably 16th. Bodo?
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Bodo would be relegated, Alkmaar probably too. Frankfurt would be battling with Fulham and Brighton, they were a decent scalp as we've struggled against that calibre of side in the league all year long. You can track this stuff pretty easily just looking at wage/transfer budgets. Frankfurt's is just over half that of Bournemouth, you can add "tax" on to that as premier league sides pay more for the same quality due to their wealth, but it paints a picture.

When it comes to the CL the gap is much smaller as Bayern, Madrid etc are all independently incredibly wealthy. But when we get to mid-table or even bottom half Prem clubs, these are equivalent in quality across the board to the top 4/6 of Europe mostly. There are some exceptions - last year Leverkusen vs Atalanta was a genuinely quality match up - but this was not a quality year.

The issue is that generally Prem clubs in Europe fall in to a trap of fighting on all fronts. From the knockouts its clear we made it our everything, and quality wise we smoke Bodo, AZ etc by many levels. So it was just about getting past Frankfurt and beating United in a final. Which they did, job done.

Conference league wise its so laughable it isn't even funny. Chelsea can play their entire 2nd or even 3rd string and win 4-0 - prem clubs shouldn't be allowed in it.
 
Deuterz said:
He doesn't have a plan. We ditched the league because we were dead in it. Because it was too hard for us to compete with other in form premier league teams. He decided a long time ago that going for a cup was "easier" than developing the consistency of a league team so we threw everything at them/it.

It's a hail mary which has paid off because the europa league is fundamentally weaker than the premier league. Both him and Amorim played the same card, the result was a crap-fest where both teams looked terribly coached but we won because we had that moment.

Sorry, but I'm not buying any of this "buy in to his philosophy" nonsense because he won a cup. If this was true Di Matteo would be a footballing genius.
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You're right but for the wrong reasons.

We didn't develop consistency in the league because at any given team half the starting eleven were on the treatment table. Whatever the cause, that's the hand he had to play with.

We weren't making top 6, let alone top 4- and make no mistake, the goal was Champions League qualification because no way were winning the league. In that context it makes every sense to focus on the available pathway to the Champions League. He has admitted he overshot the mark in the league, but what does it matter if we finished 10 th and no trophy and no Champions League next season?

As for the quality of the game, Red Star and their fans do not give a fig that they played for penalties against ( do you remember who?). The European Cup is in their cabinet and history books say European Cup Champions 1991: Red Star.
 
Kiro Kompiro said:
You're right but for the wrong reasons.

We didn't develop consistency in the league because at any given team half the starting eleven were on the treatment table. Whatever the cause, that's the hand he had to play with.

We weren't making top 6, let alone top 4- and make no mistake, the goal was Champions League qualification because no way were winning the league. In that context it makes every sense to focus on the available pathway to the Champions League. He has admitted he overshot the mark in the league, but what does it matter if we finished 10 th and no trophy and no Champions League next season?

As for the quality of the game, Red Star and their fans do not give a fig that they played for penalties against ( do you remember who?). The European Cup is in their cabinet and history books say European Cup Champions 1991: Red Star.
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We were poor at the start of the season (no injuries) and poor at the end of last season (no injuries).

Of course it matters. You don't sink in to relegation form just to win games against Bodo and Frankfurt. You shouldn't need to in fact. Some drop off is expected, but the base level has to be so much higher from any reasonably well coached team. The reality is the coaching was terrible, injuries can and do happen and will hurt teams but you can't allow it to cause a collapse.

Of course they don't. This is the Ange thread, not the "does this trophy win matter" thread. The win isn't impacted by the quality, the assessment of the achievement by the manager is.
 
Perhaps he needs a fresh coaching team. Mason and the rest are bang average.
A reset there might see an uptick in week to week form.
A new manager would almost certainly have a sweeping brush to that lot and half the medical team.
 
I agree with deuterz. This is a fantastic win for the club, the monkey is finally off our backs, but this doesn't negate the frankly disgraceful football we've had to watch for the past year and a bit. I'll always be grateful to the manager for his part in getting this trophy but the football and results ha e been so abject for so long under him I think everyone needs to go their separate ways.
 
Kiro Kompiro said:
As for the quality of the game, Red Star and their fans do not give a fig that they played for penalties against ( do you remember who?). The European Cup is in their cabinet and history books say European Cup Champions 1991: Red Star.
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You're talking about Bernard Tapie's Marseille and their team of superstars (including our own Chris Waddle). The PSG of the late 80s and early 90s.
 
Pathfinder said:
Ask any player what they would prefer and you'll get the answer.
In case you didn't know, it's far tougher to get into a CL final than to win the EL.
Bodø-Glimt were in the EL ...because they lost to Red Star in last CL qualification round. Red Star didn't make it out of the CL group stage.
Besides, your logic is based on wrong assumptions: when Spurs won the UEFA the previous times the UEFA was actually considered almost hard to win as the then European cup. So winning the UEFA back then was much more of an achievement than now.
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Please, please ask Sonny the question then.

If you could pick 1 moment to keep, would it be losing the champions league in 2019, or winning the Europa league in 2025.

Hahahahhaha you goose
 
Hrytn said:
It's perplexing people say EL is an easy cup to win. There is no easy cup to win in any competition.

In fact, winning the EL confirms one and one thing only; our position in the table P17 is false.
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I concur, he didn't have his first choice team for a majority of the season. Not saying he would have got top five or anything but sure as hell would have done a lot better if we weren't the walking wounded.

I reckon he's learned a lot and that's why he's wanting to stay on now cos he know he can deliver in the league now.
 
Boltonspur said:
Perhaps he needs a fresh coaching team. Mason and the rest are bang average.
A reset there might see an uptick in week to week form.
A new manager would almost certainly have a sweeping brush to that lot and half the medical team.
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Its actually a very important point: Ferguson had Qeiroz and Rene Meulensteen, top notch coaches.

Postecoglou had John Kennedy at Celtic, but he reportedly declined to come with him.
 
Deuterz said:
We were poor at the start of the season (no injuries) and poor at the end of last season (no injuries).
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And that proves the point: where's is the consistency?.

We were playing 17 year olds at one stage.

Deuterz said:
Of course it matters. You don't sink in to relegation form just to win games against Bodo and Frankfurt. You shouldn't need to in fact. Some drop off is expected, but the base level has to be so much higher from any reasonably well coached team. The reality is the coaching was terrible, injuries can and do happen and will hurt teams but you can't allow it to cause a collapse.
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There is no depth in the squad-there is a steep decline in experience and quality once you get past the first 11.

Deuterz said:
Of course they don't. This is the Ange thread, not the "does this trophy win matter" thread. The win isn't impacted by the quality, the assessment of the achievement by the manager is.
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That's not what I meant. Spurs fans who witnessed this will forever remember the win, not how we played. Fans will remember he got the job done when so many others have failed. Just look at the emotion- you won't get that playing shekshy football and finishing second in the league. Winning isn't everything, its just all there is.
 
Deuterz said:
I'm genuinely scared. I think with the fan support and noise from the media now they will be too scared to get rid of him whilst he's on a high - it was always my biggest fear.

This club now faces its Ten Haag moment - do we stick due to a cup win or do we make the correct, sensible decision and base it on the quality of coaching.
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No offence mate but your agenda is boring, I've been a long time lurker of this forum and i've decided to sign up and post tonight solely because I'm sick of you stinking up this thread with your arrogant negativity.

You don't rate the Europa league and you never have, you've been downplaying our European run for months in this thread and I'm convinced you haven't even celebrated our greatest night in 17 years because all of your posts have been about how we only faced rubbish opposition.

The fact is Ange has won a major European trophy and in 40 years time nobody will give a damn that we finished `17th in the league, he won us our first trophy in 17 years and our first European trophy in 41 years, all the years of mockery from our rivals ended as soon as we lifted that trophy. That achievement of winning a trophy and securing champions league football + bragging rights over our rivals is superior to securing champions league football and winning no trophies.

There are also 2 mitigating circumstances that you refuse to acknowledge. The first is how many managers would recover from losing one of the best players of all time (Kane) in their first season of managing the club, a player that our whole club had been built around, not to mention losing an inform Son .. not many managers would recover from this. Can you imagine Poch Conte and Mourinho without Kane?

Secondly.. October to December we were decimated with injuries and from January to may Ange clearly calculated that winning the league was out of the equation and we needed to win a trophy so he put all his eggs into the European basket and the players clearly bought into that vision as well. They took a risk and it paid off massively but this whole lost 21 games nonsense doesn't even take into account that simple fact that the players didn't give a damn about winning a few pointless premier league games when the European trophy was there to be captured.
I refuse to hold that decision against the gaffer because it paid off.. He deserves the chance to bring in quality players and build a legacy, he is the man to take us forward and I fully believe that. I don't like the fact that you and other posters on here almost bully people who dare to hold this opinion.
 
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