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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Shadydan said:
Oh my bad I always thought top clubs were judged on winning stuff, my bad.

Do you think anyone would respect Real if they finished CL runners up 15 times and constantly failed at the last hurdle, do you think anyone would still look at them as a European giant or a top European side?

What the fuck are we even doing here? 😖
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So according to your logic winning the EL made Spurs a bigger club than Real M., Barca, Man City, Bayern M. because those clubs failed to win the CL.
Sevilla won the Europe League in 2014. 2015, 2016. Are they regarded as a top club?
If Real M. had reached 15 consecutive CL finals I am sure they would win a few of them :cool: And they would have been regarded as a big club.
Anyway, try tell señor Florentino Pérez that instead of aiming to win the CL every season, something he will never be able to do, he should instead have Real M. aim for the EL because it's much easier to win. And if he does win the EL a few times his club will be seen as a giant. Tell him to lower his standards and win "lesser" trophies.
Why did the big leagues push to have more teams - on behalf of "smaller" leagues - in the CL knowing it would be harder to win? Do your really think they believe it's a bigger achievement to win the EL?
And why would Spurs fans want their team to finish in the top-4, even without a chance to win the EPL title, knowing that ending 5 and would give them an easier shoot at a title as it would qualify them for the easier EL?

It's trophy vs. prestige. And a trophy doesn't always equate beating prestige.
 
Mostly wrong said:
I would argue that conversely keeping him on after finishing 17th in quantifiably our worst ever campaign since the First Division became the Premier League sends a message loud and clear that we are not a serious club that wants to build towards sustained success and are more than happy to essentially "do a favour" to a manager because he finally ended our trophy drought and let us give it back to rival fans for once. You don't think that those players also have it in their mind that they've been an absolute laughing stock for most of the season and had multiple clashes with their own fans, dogs abuse thrown at them all season, and it is in no small part down to the manager?

After finishing 17th in the league under this manager, yes, anything is possible next season, including relegation...
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Question then, lets say we kept him on next season and we finished 17th Again but won the CL, would you take that?
 
Pathfinder said:
So according to your logic winning the EL made Spurs a bigger club than Real M., Barca, Man City, Bayern M. because those clubs failed to win the CL.
Sevilla won the Europe League in 2014. 2015, 2016. Are they regarded as a top club?
If Real M. had reached 15 consecutive CL finals I am sure they would win a few of them :cool: And they would have been regarded as a big club.
Anyway, try tell señor Florentino Pérez that instead of aiming to win the CL every season, something he will never be able to do, he should instead have Real M. aim for the EL because it's much easier to win. And if he does win the EL a few times his club will be seen as a giant. Tell him to lower his standards and win "lesser" trophies.
Why did the big leagues push to have more teams - on behalf of "smaller" leagues - in the CL knowing it would be harder to win? Do your really think they believe it's a bigger achievement to win the EL?
And why would Spurs fans want their team to finish in the top-4, even without a chance to win the EPL title, knowing that ending 5 and would give them an easier shoot at a title as it would qualify them for the easier EL?

It's trophy vs. prestige. And a trophy doesn't always equate beating prestige.
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What? 😖

Those clubs you mentioned are big because they won the Champions League.

What you were originally protesting is that Woolwich are as big as them because they are challenging for the league and Champions League, if they haven't won then how does that put them on par with the clubs you just mentioned?

The rest of your post is drivel, what on earth are you talking about?
 
marxoulis said:
Any evidence?
I repeat:
Vic, Maddison, Son, Kulu, Dom, Cuti which were very much missed had injuries that had nothing to do with training or playing intensity.
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Shut up. Every injury has something to do with training or playing. Unless they pull a muscle while mowing the lawn or chasing their kids around the living room. It’s playing football, they get injured doing it.
The issue is why we get more of them than other teams. A pattern that follows the manager around or at least seems to.
 
Fattynomates said:
Question then, lets say we kept him on next season and we finished 17th Again but won the CL, would you take that?
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If I say yes to your theoretical question, do you think that somehow qualifies the view that Ange should stay next season? Because I would turn around and point to our form against the top 6 teams in the league over the last 2 seasons as a veritable mountain of evidence as to why Ange is, to put it generously, "ill-equipped" to win the Champions League.

I could ask you a question back, would you take a league cup win if it was coupled with relegation? Don't think I'd be so keen on that one.
 
Mostly wrong said:
What players specifically? Most of them have been at the club for five minutes. I really think you are massively, massively overattributing the importance of this cup win to the players because of the importance it held for us as fans. Our average squad age is like 23, many of our players are U21s, do you really think they've won the Europa and thought "this is it, I've hit the pinnacle, this is as elite coaching as I'll ever get and this manager is the best chance I have at being a raging success"? I can promise you they don't. The team will move on.
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Have you seen the interviews and celebrations after the final ?

Did you hear what Sonny said? What Van De Ven said?

If you really don’t think this was MASSIVE for all of them and they don’t absolutely love Ange for it, then its because you don’t want to admit it.

Of course they would be open to other managers and coaches in the future but you can’t replace Ange this summer with a mid table coach who has never won anything in their life. It will turn to shit.
 
stevie0444 said:
No offence mate but your agenda is boring, I've been a long time lurker of this forum and i've decided to sign up and post tonight solely because I'm sick of you stinking up this thread with your arrogant negativity.

You don't rate the Europa league and you never have, you've been downplaying our European run for months in this thread and I'm convinced you haven't even celebrated our greatest night in 17 years because all of your posts have been about how we only faced rubbish opposition.

The fact is Ange has won a major European trophy and in 40 years time nobody will give a damn that we finished `17th in the league, he won us our first trophy in 17 years and our first European trophy in 41 years, all the years of mockery from our rivals ended as soon as we lifted that trophy. That achievement of winning a trophy and securing champions league football + bragging rights over our rivals is superior to securing champions league football and winning no trophies.

There are also 2 mitigating circumstances that you refuse to acknowledge. The first is how many managers would recover from losing one of the best players of all time (Kane) in their first season of managing the club, a player that our whole club had been built around, not to mention losing an inform Son .. not many managers would recover from this. Can you imagine Poch Conte and Mourinho without Kane?

Secondly.. October to December we were decimated with injuries and from January to may Ange clearly calculated that winning the league was out of the equation and we needed to win a trophy so he put all his eggs into the European basket and the players clearly bought into that vision as well. They took a risk and it paid off massively but this whole lost 21 games nonsense doesn't even take into account that simple fact that the players didn't give a damn about winning a few pointless premier league games when the European trophy was there to be captured.
I refuse to hold that decision against the gaffer because it paid off.. He deserves the chance to bring in quality players and build a legacy, he is the man to take us forward and I fully believe that. I don't like the fact that you and other posters on here almost bully people who dare to hold this opinion.
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I think you need to post a bit more Bruv.
 
Mostly wrong said:
If I say yes to your theoretical question, do you think that somehow qualifies the view that Ange should stay next season? Because I would turn around and point to our form against the top 6 teams in the league over the last 2 seasons as a veritable mountain of evidence as to why Ange is, to put it generously, "ill-equipped" to win the Champions League.
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No just a general question, I have always said I would be happy to finish 17th and win a trophy but this season was a hell of a slog, I fell out of love with the team and the manager and even the club, yet that one night in Bilbao was so special, its like i have forgot how shit the last season was!
I guess looking at objectively , as a whole I have enjoyed this season a lot more then I did in the seasons when we finished top 4, I remember saying myself when poch was in the EL that we should take it seriously and try to win it as Top 4 is not a trophy but you can't lose 21 games in a season , any way i'm waffling a bit but I was fully Ange out last week, however if Levy decides to give him the start of next season I can live with that.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Have you seen the interviews and celebrations after the final ?

Did you hear what Sonny said? What Van De Ven said?

If you really don’t think this was MASSIVE for all of them and they don’t absolutely love Ange for it, then its because you don’t want to admit it.

Of course they would be open to other managers and coaches in the future but you can’t replace Ange this summer with a mid table coach who has never won anything in their life. It will turn to shit.
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I have to agree with this as someone who doesn't believe Ange can turn this around. I wanted Iraola in in the Summer, but if we start that kind of project now, with a guaranteed transitional first year then it doesn't make much sense. What would be an adequate season under him while he tries to implement his notoriously complicated tactics and philosophy? Top 8 and a UCL last 16? Probably our last appearance in the competition for a few years while he nails stuff down?
 
ginola92 said:
Fair fucking play to him, I’ve been one of his biggest doubters but he’s given me an unforgettable few nights, nobody can take that away from him. Give him massive credit for Wednesday and Frankfurt away in particular, he got those players ready to die for him on the pitch out there.

I still however think it’s best for all parties for him to leave this summer. The premier league form since November 2023 just can’t be ignored, we have enough sample size to judge his ability to manage us week to week in the prem. He has the chance to go out a hero and be remembered for breaking the trophy drought, I think if he stays he will end up being sacked at the start of next season and it will affect both the way he’s looked at and hinder us next season.

What does change though is the optics, he simply can’t be sacked to be replaced by a silva/iroala type manager, even though I think both of those would do better in the prem, it would just look crazy to sack a European trophy winner for an up and coming mid table manager. For him to leave this summer I think it has to be for a “big name” type who has won before, a Xavi for example.

Interesting to see what happens, because really whatever the board had in place for after Brighton shouldn’t change on the back of one game, but what this cup has done for us and all the emotion of the past few days can’t be ignored. But lastly big up ange for getting us over the line and giving me the greatest night I’ve had supporting this club.
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What makes you all so sure that Ange is going to fail next season in the prem?

Surely there is a part of you that sees we are breaking new ground here and that just maybe, we can reach new heights with a full squad and full buy in with a now winning mentality.

The main point I want to make is, it's okay to be wrong. It's okay for you to be wrong thinking Ange wasn't the guy, and to give him a chance. And it's okay for me to be wrong, thinking he is, and to eventually part ways if he's not and it doesn't work out.

But isn't it worth the risk to try? To dare is to do, isn't it?
 
Richard Arlison said:
Have you seen the interviews and celebrations after the final ?

Did you hear what Sonny said? What Van De Ven said?

If you really don’t think this was MASSIVE for all of them and they don’t absolutely love Ange for it, then its because you don’t want to admit it.

Of course they would be open to other managers and coaches in the future but you can’t replace Ange this summer with a mid table coach who has never won anything in their life. It will turn to shit.
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Yes of course those players are on a high and they've won a cup, some of them have waited years for doing so, they're ecstatic, that's to be expected.
They're also grown adults, and they're capable of contextualising this season from a fans perspective. Any of them that would choose to down tools or "refuse to buy in" to the next project with that context in mind, are more than welcome to fuck off this summer in my book.
 
Fattynomates said:
No just a general question, I have always said I would be happy to finish 17th and win a trophy but this season was a hell of a slog, I fell out of love with the team and the manager and even the club, yet that one night in Bilbao was so special, its like i have forgot how shit the last season was!
I guess looking at objectively , as a whole I have enjoyed this season a lot more then I did in the seasons when we finished top 4, I remember saying myself when poch was in the EL that we should take it seriously and try to win it as Top 4 is not a trophy but you can't lose 21 games in a season , any way i'm waffling a bit but I was fully Ange out last week, however if Levy decides to give him the start of next season I can live with that.
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Absolutely, with no reservations, the best season of my life as a Spurs fan. Because of one night. Mental but true.

Football 🤯
 
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