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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
Matt1882 said:
Surely the only Frank-out people are still in the cult of Angeloss.




We did. And the season before.



Ange took over from, effectively, Conte. Conte who finished 4th in his first season and was 3rd when sacked.
Ange made us worse with 5th.
And then much worse the following season.

Just Saying What You See Is What You Get GIF by Aurora Consulting - EIDL Consulting
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Nonsense. Postecoglou took over after the club had finished 8th and was a shambles. Conte had peak Son and Kane for his 4th place, the two best players this club has had in the last decade, and completely revamped the playing philosophy and starting eleven. To get 5th in his first season in the EPL, given that context was excellent. The second season, not so much. The Europa.... well :angecup:
 
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AberdeenYid said:
It’s a strange quirk on here that if you have the temerity to question our attacking play this season, you get told that we’ve scored 10 in 5, as if that’s all that matters.

But when you compliment a player like Johnson for scoring, it’s suddenly not just about the goals.
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Stop using common sense you bastard!!!
Where do you think you are???

We all know what really matters is xG.
Which is of course, as I’m sure you know, 6.14.
 
White Van Jan said:
Defensive: I get that, but lets be realistic here.

Last season we lost a record (?) 22 matches, conceded a record (?) 65 goals and finished in a terrible 17th spot, easily the worst in the PL, and the worst for nearly 50 yrs.

With that background, any new manager is going to HAVE to improve. And the easiest way to do that is organise the defence and revamp those chaotic systems of last season.

I wouldnt claim the defensive side is job done, but it's 6 games in and it's a lot more than a start. Goals conceded have fallen massivley.

Now the attacking side.

Played 5 scored 10. That is pretty damn decent, not pretty terrible.

Bear in mind that a new team and manager scoring goals is a whole different challenge. So much harder than getting a back 4 to hold a line for instance. Also that Dom our best strieker has yet to play a part. That all takes time, certainly more than 5 PL matches.

Points wise we're 3 pts ahead of game for game last season, but from 7 to 10, only 5 matches, and that's quite a jump. And very unlucky not to get another 2 pts at Brighton. Just been on North Stand Chat and several there saying they were relieved to get the point.

I'm not going overboard about TF. He's done a good job. It's professional, pragmatic, solid. Some here saying its been outsrtanding. Its not. I gather we were crap v B'mouth and very average v Villareal. But its very encouraging.
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Scored 1 more than the first 5 games of last season.
Conceded 2 less.
Got 3 more points.

There's not really a metric this season that us worse than last season after the same number of games, is there?
I even think the critique of the attacking play is being massively blown out of proportion, most likely from those still bitter we got rid of the fraud.
 
AberdeenYid said:
It’s a strange quirk on here that if you have the temerity to question our attacking play this season, you get told that we’ve scored 10 in 5, as if that’s all that matters.

But when you compliment a player like Johnson for scoring, it’s suddenly not just about the goals.

FWIW, I just want us to score a lot and concede a lot less. Don’t really care how they go in. Goals at the weekend were the shittiest two goals you’ll ever see, but got us a point. However, relying on shitty goals isn’t sustainable, so the attacking players do need to screw the nut a bit more. It would also be nice sometimes to see a goal going in and think “nice goal”, rather than “lucky bastard”.
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I think the aim will have been to concede less first, then build on that, Kind of a complete opposite to what we had under Ange , where attack was the form of defence.

I'm still worried with having to rely on Richie, Tel and Odobert - I get the later 2 are still very raw and young but Richie for me is always 1 game away from being on the sidelines, but Give Frank until January to see which of Tel or Odobert he wants to keep and send the other out on Loan and bring in someone who can play on the left Like Kudus does on the right.

Interesting to see how Solanke does as well , but as much as I love the Pigeon if we could get any kind of an offer for him in January and bring in a replacement I'd be doing it.
 
Timberwolf said:
I like the way he's using the squad. Seen some people moaning at why we didn't start Sarr and Xavi vs Brighton but Frank's clearly trying to keep players fresh and not just running the same 11 into the ground.

Sarr had played almost every minute until yesterday and runs non stop. Makes sense to rotate him every now and then. Meanwhile Xavi's still new to the league and adapting. He should start 90% of games moving forward but it makes sense to ease him in a bit.

Just seems like smart squad and load management to me. Keeps players fresh and on their toes and we'll probably look better in games like Doncaster as it won't be 10 guys that have barely played at all. "Backups" like Grey, Tel, Johnson and Odobert have all started at least 1 game and generally had some involvement so shouldn't be too rusty. Even Danso has had minutes off the bench.

Feels like a marked contrast to pretty much every other manager we've had - almost all had such a clearly defined first 11 and rotation happened almost exclusively against weak teams. Not sure you can get away with that with the expanded European fixture list and sheer number of games.
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Danger 5 Laughing GIF


Simple but effective :)
 
Matt1882 said:
Scored 1 more than the first 5 games of last season.
Conceded 2 less.
Got 3 more points.

There's not really a metric this season that us worse than last season after the same number of games, is there?
I even think the critique of the attacking play is being massively blown out of proportion, most likely from those still bitter we got rid of the fraud.
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I think it is only fair to start comparing seasons, when you are like halfway through or something, and got a clearer picture of what is happening
 
After the 5 match trend this season we are overperforming on our xpts by 3.0 meaning we 'ought to be' on 7 points as opposed to 10, means we're allowing our opponents easy chances in dangerous areas whilst we're not creating enough ourselves.

Guessing this is because we've lost the XG battle with our opps in 3/5 matches and the Bournemouth match skewes the data massively because we couldn't get near our goal whilst they kept breaching our defence.

G1RAIBOXkAAJ_nm
 
GinolasLeftFoot said:
I think it is only fair to start comparing seasons, when you are like halfway through or something, and got a clearer picture of what is happening
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To some degree, sure.
But "Big Ange" had lost half his squad by then due to his idiotball football. I was hoping to compare both coaches with full squads at their disposal. In fact, Frank may be missing more than Ange at the same stage.
 
dudu said:
Go watch our 4-1 loss to Brighton again at the end of last season and tell me if we have or have not improved offensively?

If youre expecting us to be able to dominate teams offensively at this stage of the season then you aren't being realistic, and also, don't really watch much prem because there are almost no teams that do that anymore unless they are playing the worst teams in the league.
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Funnily enough we had an XG of 1.95 in that game when the entire team was still pissed from the parade.

We had an XG of 1.22 on Saturday.

:D
 
Fattynomates said:
I think the aim will have been to concede less first, then build on that, Kind of a complete opposite to what we had under Ange , where attack was the form of defence.

I'm still worried with having to rely on Richie, Tel and Odobert - I get the later 2 are still very raw and young but Richie for me is always 1 game away from being on the sidelines, but Give Frank until January to see which of Tel or Odobert he wants to keep and send the other out on Loan and bring in someone who can play on the left Like Kudus does on the right.

Interesting to see how Solanke does as well , but as much as I love the Pigeon if we could get any kind of an offer for him in January and bring in a replacement I'd be doing it.
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We have lacked a good striker since Harry left...we need to lash out some dosh at Xmas....now Levy has gone, it'll be interesting to see what happens...
Must admit I'm a bit nervous....
 
Shadydan said:
After the 5 match trend this season we are overperforming on our xpts by 3.0 meaning we 'ought to be' on 7 points as opposed to 10, means we're allowing our opponents easy chances in dangerous areas whilst we're not creating enough ourselves.

Guessing this is because we've lost the XG battle with our opps in 3/5 matches and the Bournemouth match skewes the data massively because we couldn't get near our goal whilst they kept breaching our defence.

G1RAIBOXkAAJ_nm
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xG has nothing to do with "ought to be". It is a stat. It's not all encompassing. It doesn't tell you who deserves to win anything barring huge discrepancies.

xG completely ignores finishing and goalkeeping/shot blocking, 2 huge parts of the game. It also has a lot of weaknesses over small sample sizes. The 2 biggest being rebounds and big chances that don't result in a shot.

Let's look at rebounds. Let's say Bergvall takes a .2 xG shot. It goes in. Game finishes 1-1 where xG is 1.00 for us and 1.3 for the opposition. xG says we were slightly outplayed. xPoints is 1.1 for this.

Now let's say Bergvall's shot is saved but it falls right to Brennan Johnson (who else) for an easy tap in of 0.8 xg. Now the same exact game finishes 1-1 on 1.8 xG for us and 1.3 for the opposition. It's the exact same game and the ones that only look at xG will think we were the better team and deserved to win. xPoints is 1.76 for this. And now the opponent will have less xPoints because their goalkeeper was good enough to save the initial shot. It's ridiculous.

Point being, expected points does not mean you should be on that many points. It is an indicator you may be due for regression but not a certainty.
 
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bonaspur23 said:
xG has nothing to do with "ought to be". It is a stat. It's not all encompassing. It doesn't tell you who deserves to win anything barring huge discrepancies.

xG completely ignores finishing and goalkeeping/shot blocking, 2 huge parts of the game. It also has a lot of weaknesses over small sample sizes. The 2 biggest being rebounds and big chances that don't result in a shot.

Let's look at rebounds. Let's say Bergvall takes a .2 xG shot. It goes in. Game finishes 1-1 where xG is 1.00 for us and 1.3 for the opposition. xG says we were slightly outplayed. xPoints is 1.1 for this.

Now let's say Bergvall's shot is saved but it falls right to Brennan Johnson (who else) for an easy tap in of 0.8 xg. Now the same exact game finishes 1-1 on 1.8 xG for us and 1.3 for the opposition. It's the exact same game and the ones that only look at xG will think we were the better team and deserved to win. xPoints is 1.76 for this. And now the opponent will have less xPoints because their goalkeeper was good enough to save the initial shot. It's ridiculous.

Point being, expected points does not mean you should be on that many points. It is an indicator you may be due for regression but not a certainty.
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Is this a maths thread?
 
bonaspur23 said:
xG has nothing to do with "ought to be". It is a stat. It's not all encompassing. It doesn't tell you who deserves to win anything barring huge discrepancies.

xG completely ignores finishing and goalkeeping, 2 huge parts of the game. It also has a lot of weaknesses over small sample sizes. The 2 biggest being rebounds and big chances that don't result in a shot.

Let's look at rebounds. Let's say Bergvall takes a .2 xG shot. It goes in. Game finishes 1-1 where xG is 1.00 for us and 1.3 for the opposition. xG says we were slightly outplayed.

Now let's say Bergvall's shot is saved but it falls right to Brennan Johnson (who else) for an easy tap in of 0.8 xg. Now the same exact game finishes 1-1 on 1.8 xG for us and 1.3 for the opposition. It's the exact same game and the ones that only look at xG will think we were the better team and deserved to win.

Point being, expected points does not mean you should be on that many points. It is an indicator you may be due for regression but not a certainty.
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Hence why I put 'ought to be' in quotation marks fella, I wasn't being literal ;)

Yeah we are aware how xg works, you don't need to tell me but you've basically explained how it works over an isolated match, if those very same or similar actions happen over a selection of matches leading to a similar outcome then that's called a trend. IMO A 5 game streak is big enough to tell me where we are currently trending hence why I posted the chart and added my own caveat's to it.
 
Kiro Kompiro said:
Nonsense. Postecoglou took over after the club had finished 8th and was a shambles. Conte had peak Son and Kane for his 4th place, the two best players this club has had in the last decade, and completely revamped the playing philosophy and starting eleven. To get 5th in his first season in the EPL, given that context was excellent. The second season, not so much. The Europa.... well :angecup:
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This is rewriting the history books. We had a decent squad already we’re 3/4th when conte blew a fuse. We only finished 8th bcos of that numpty scallini being in charge then mason. I’m sure if conte had finished the season we would have finished top 5 easy. Soon as he left the rails came off our season. Ange then took over and had how much spent in that first season?
 
Shadydan said:
After the 5 match trend this season we are overperforming on our xpts by 3.0 meaning we 'ought to be' on 7 points as opposed to 10, means we're allowing our opponents easy chances in dangerous areas whilst we're not creating enough ourselves.

Guessing this is because we've lost the XG battle with our opps in 3/5 matches and the Bournemouth match skewes the data massively because we couldn't get near our goal whilst they kept breaching our defence.

G1RAIBOXkAAJ_nm
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I agree- we have been slightly lucky so far this season. I think Frank can improve this by avoiding using a 4-3-3 with Benta and Palhinha together in the CM3 though- has been a real dud formation/combination for us so far. A 4-2-3-1 with Benta/Pahla in the double pivot and Xavi at the 10 (not Bergvall) could probably work though. I hope he avoids using Benta much in general- Sarr and Bergvall are both much more offensively positive options at this point, and are every bit as solid defensively.
 
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