• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Management Relegation

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Do you think we'll stay up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 184 40.1%

  • No

    Votes: 275 59.9%
  • Total voters
    459
Status
Not open for further replies.
Beni said:
I actually get the doom feeling. Visually, emotionally, the mood around the club, it is very bleak. Anyone pretending otherwise is kidding themselves. When results, performances and confidence all line up in the wrong direction, of course it feels like the trap door is opening.

But this is where I separate feeling from reality.
I try to anchor on numbers and probabilities.
Because doom always feels inevitable right up until the moment it isn’t. Football’s full of sides that looked finished and then picked up two wins and suddenly everyone rewrites the story.

Your scenario is possible, sure. Lose the next two, West Ham win one, gap shrinks fast, pressure goes through the roof. But it relies on specific outcomes all lining up perfectly. It also ignores that Forest have Liverpool, Brighton next and Leeds have Villa and City. So while West Ham might pick up points, we’d still have three or four teams all in the mix. That’s a lot of moving parts for the worst case to actually materialise.

You’re right about Palace at home though. That’s a huge game. Win it and the table, mood all changes.

So yeah, I understand the darkness around it all, I’m just not at the we are definitely going down stage.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For the record I think we will stay up but I don't do numbers. I rely on my gut. It's never wrong.
 
Fattynomates said:
Have you seen them lately? Could have easily won against united and Chelsea , they don’t look like a team who is getting relegated, i think they will stay up
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sure, they’ve been competitive in a few games, had a couple of good results but moments and trends aren’t the same as actually getting the points-per-game you need. We’ve had our own moments too, where points gained or lost could easily have been different. Maybe they will stay up, but then we still have three other teams in the mix with us. To overtake us, their PPG would need around a 40% improvement while we stay static.

I’m not trying to excuse the situation we’re in, it’s rubbish and it’s worrying. I’m just adding some context and stats to help people step away from the emotion and see it in a different, more analytical way. I personally think that with a change in manager it will massively change the way we approach and deal with games to be more of an upward trajectory compared to if we were to have stuck.
 
Beni said:
Sure, they’ve been competitive in a few games, had a couple of good results but moments and trends aren’t the same as actually getting the points-per-game you need. We’ve had our own moments too, where points gained or lost could easily have been different. Maybe they will stay up, but then we still have three other teams in the mix with us. To overtake us, their PPG would need around a 40% improvement while we stay static.

I’m not trying to excuse the situation we’re in, it’s rubbish and it’s worrying. I’m just adding some context and stats to help people step away from the emotion and see it in a different, more analytical way. I personally think that with a change in manager it will massively change the way we approach and deal with games to be more of an upward trajectory compared to if we were to have stuck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think we will stay up , even with the injuries I think the squad is a lot better than Frank made it look but I also think West Ham are staying up , my money is on Forest to go down , would be quite fitting that the first manager Forest sacked is the one who gets them relegated in the end , albeit by saving West Ham
 
_mehstg said:
For the record I think we will stay up but I don't do numbers. I rely on my gut. It's never wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think Forest are the most likely team to take the 18th place at the end of the season. The amount of manager changes they've had this season reminds me a lot of Newcastle in 08/09. Multiple manager changes over the course of a season is never a good sign and Nuno should not have been sacked.

We're not out of the woods, though. The very fact that we've had to hire a crisis troubleshooter to "save us" does not bode well for the long-term. Clubs that do this often go down within the next couple of seasons unless they make the structural changes they need to stay in the Premier League.

Tudor might be able to save us in the short-term but we will have to save ourselves in the long-term.
 
Beni said:
Let me break it down.

We’ve got 12 games left. If both sides simply carry on at their current points-per-game (0.88ppg versus 1ppg) over last 12 games onto the next 12, we would finish with around 39-40 points and West Ham would be on 36.

And that already assumes we don’t improve at all while West Ham, carry on in the form they’re in. Football rarely follows neat paper predictions looking at specific games. If our fixtures aren’t guaranteed, neither are theirs. You can’t hand one side assumed wins and deny the same logic to the other.

The real measure here is PPG, not raw win totals. For West Ham to genuinely overhaul us, they’d need roughly a 40% jump in performance, while we simultaneously stay awful with zero improvement. That’s the scenario you’re relying on.

As for the manager point, Tudor has a clear pattern. He gets quick results in the short term, even if it doesn’t always sustain over longer periods. But that’s irrelevant to the brief. He hasn’t been brought in for a three-year rebuild, he is here just to deliver a lift across the next 12 matches. Replicate that short-term impact and the job’s basically done. And even if the bounce is only slight rather than dramatic, a small uptick from our current level is likely enough to keep us safe anyway.

Yes, the season’s been poor. Nobody sensible is denying that. But the leap from “bad season”to “they’re definitely catching us” doesn’t come from the maths. It only works if West Ham improve sharply and we don’t improve at all, and that avoids also the other teams in the mix like Forest, Leeds, Palace and Brighton.

So instead of listing past results like they predict the future, look at the trajectory and the PPG. Once you do, the doom narrative looks a lot less convincing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well let's just hope it works out the way you're predicting and that we better West Ham/Forest/Palace/Brighton/Leeds results over the next 12.
 
Beni said:
Let me break it down.

We’ve got 12 games left. If both sides simply carry on at their current points-per-game (0.88ppg versus 1ppg) over last 12 games onto the next 12, we would finish with around 39-40 points and West Ham would be on 36.

And that already assumes we don’t improve at all while West Ham, carry on in the form they’re in. Football rarely follows neat paper predictions looking at specific games. If our fixtures aren’t guaranteed, neither are theirs. You can’t hand one side assumed wins and deny the same logic to the other.

The real measure here is PPG, not raw win totals. For West Ham to genuinely overhaul us, they’d need roughly a 40% jump in performance, while we simultaneously stay awful with zero improvement. That’s the scenario you’re relying on.

As for the manager point, Tudor has a clear pattern. He gets quick results in the short term, even if it doesn’t always sustain over longer periods. But that’s irrelevant to the brief. He hasn’t been brought in for a three-year rebuild, he is here just to deliver a lift across the next 12 matches. Replicate that short-term impact and the job’s basically done. And even if the bounce is only slight rather than dramatic, a small uptick from our current level is likely enough to keep us safe anyway.

Yes, the season’s been poor. Nobody sensible is denying that. But the leap from “bad season”to “they’re definitely catching us” doesn’t come from the maths. It only works if West Ham improve sharply and we don’t improve at all, and that avoids also the other teams in the mix like Forest, Leeds, Palace and Brighton.

So instead of listing past results like they predict the future, look at the trajectory and the PPG. Once you do, the doom narrative looks a lot less convincing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I’m enjoying this post Beni!

Injuries and mentality are our problem though. In the short term we could drop into the bottom three given injuries and fixtures. Do the players then have it in them to pull us out of it? We can’t look at the fixtures as a whole, they have to be looked in isolation every week.
 
Kid Chameleon said:
I think Forest are the most likely team to take the 18th place at the end of the season. The amount of manager changes they've had this season reminds me a lot of Newcastle in 08/09. Multiple manager changes over the course of a season is never a good sign and Nuno should not have been sacked.

We're not out of the woods, though. The very fact that we've had to hire a crisis troubleshooter to "save us" does not bode well for the long-term. Clubs that do this often go down within the next couple of seasons unless they make the structural changes they need to stay in the Premier League.

Tudor might be able to save us in the short-term but we will have to save ourselves in the long-term.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think Brighton could be another one to keep an eye on. They've won one league game since start of December and that was home to Burnley.
 
Brian Fantana said:
I’m enjoying this post Beni!

Injuries and mentality are our problem though. In the short term we could drop into the bottom three given injuries and fixtures. Do the players then have it in them to pull us out of it? We can’t look at the fixtures as a whole, they have to be looked in isolation every week.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thanks :)

I’d like to think Tudor’s approach can shift the mentality from being on the floor to actually wanting to play and enjoy football again. Injuries have been brutal, no question, but the risk of more is the same for our rivals. A bit of bad luck for them i.e. key players out, then suddenly our depth matters in comparison. Do Forest, West Ham, Leeds really have the squad to cover if one of their main men drops like we have had to? Probably not.

Injuries and mentality remain our weak points, of course. With a different manager, we can’t rely on the past as a guide, so every week now is a fresh test, and the team we see could be completely different from what we’ve been used to. Our form and results could change too. For example, Woolwich might be a loss, but perhaps a free hit. Get a win or even just a positive performance, against the odds and that could springboard the next game on possibilities.
 
Beni said:
Thanks :)

I’d like to think Tudor’s approach can shift the mentality from being on the floor to actually wanting to play and enjoy football again. Injuries have been brutal, no question, but the risk of more is the same for our rivals. A bit of bad luck for them i.e. key players out, then suddenly our depth matters in comparison. Do Forest, West Ham, Leeds really have the squad to cover if one of their main men drops like we have had to? Probably not.

Injuries and mentality remain our weak points, of course. With a different manager, we can’t rely on the past as a guide, so every week now is a fresh test, and the team we see could be completely different from what we’ve been used to. Our form and results could change too. For example, Woolwich might be a loss, but perhaps a free hit. Get a win or even just a positive performance, against the odds and that could springboard the next game on possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think the players just didn’t have the respect for Frank, as soon as we saw the VDV/Spence incident the alarm bells rang for me. Hopefully they’ll see a guy with a championship and CL runners up medal and 50 caps for Croatia and know things will be different. Even Ange didn’t have that kind of history/respect too of course.

Hopefully he’s been on the phone to the players already telling them what he wants and how he sees their roles in the side and squad. I think he needs to do that individually before training tomorrow so they can hit the ground running when they come in.

The break from Frank should be enough and he only has to win a few games, but it’s not going to be straight line progression that’s for sure. Plus it’s Spurs, if we can find a way of making it as hard as possible for ourselves then that’s what we will do.
 
Beni said:
Thanks :)

I’d like to think Tudor’s approach can shift the mentality from being on the floor to actually wanting to play and enjoy football again. Injuries have been brutal, no question, but the risk of more is the same for our rivals. A bit of bad luck for them i.e. key players out, then suddenly our depth matters in comparison. Do Forest, West Ham, Leeds really have the squad to cover if one of their main men drops like we have had to? Probably not.

Injuries and mentality remain our weak points, of course. With a different manager, we can’t rely on the past as a guide, so every week now is a fresh test, and the team we see could be completely different from what we’ve been used to. Our form and results could change too. For example, Woolwich might be a loss, but perhaps a free hit. Get a win or even just a positive performance, against the odds and that could springboard the next game on possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My biggest concern atm is we have the worst form and most injuries with a temporary head coach with no EPL experience
ENIC sure need to fuck off
If they don't we definitely get relegated next season, even this season is a distinct possibility
 
Brian Fantana said:
I agree it won’t be them. Got a feeling Leeds might go. Newly promoted teams do tend to struggle towards the end of seasons if down there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Leeds isn’t an easy place to go and play , same as Sunderland’s stadiums and I think their home form will keep them up , West Ham used to have that as well until they moved to the bowl!
I know it’s a cliche but the fans really can help be the 12th man , our stadium has the potential to do that thinking back to the Goons when we beat them under Conte the place was rocking and the best game atmosphere wise I have ever been to was Man City in the CL , we need to try and make the stadium a fortress , it’s one of the things I’m hoping Poch can help achieve next season , as right now teams Must love coming to our new stadium , where as last season at the lane they hated it.
 
Fattynomates said:
Leeds isn’t an easy place to go and play , same as Sunderland’s stadiums and I think their home form will keep them up , West Ham used to have that as well until they moved to the bowl!
I know it’s a cliche but the fans really can help be the 12th man , our stadium has the potential to do that thinking back to the Goons when we beat them under Conte the place was rocking and the best game atmosphere wise I have ever been to was Man City in the CL , we need to try and make the stadium a fortress , it’s one of the things I’m hoping Poch can help achieve next season , as right now teams Must love coming to our new stadium , where as last season at the lane they hated it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Leeds have a very impressive home record. We beat them in October (we won a match!) and that was their first loss in a year or so. Night games, they are unbeaten at home in 22 matches, since Farke arrived.

Place is loud as fuck when it gets going. Never really felt comfortable there.
 
AberdeenYid said:
Leeds have a very impressive home record. We beat them in October (we won a match!) and that was their first loss in a year or so. Night games, they are unbeaten at home in 22 matches, since Farke arrived.

Place is loud as fuck when it gets going. Never really felt comfortable there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Was lucky enough to be at the Leeds game , if you told me then that come 2026
We would be worried about relegation I would have called you crazy! :contehandshead:
 
Kosher Kid said:
I hope Tudor gets enough points to keep us up and then becomes a right bastard to help us get rid of the wankers in this squad.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Will be interesting to see who he plays.

Admittedly hes got like 3 fit senior players so won't have a whole lot of choice, but since he knows it's a short term gig he won't pull his punches and can drop whoever he likes.

Regardless of who comes in after, Tudor's tenure could be useful way of gauging who in our squad is committed and up for the fight and whos head is gone.
 
Timberwolf said:
Will be interesting to see who he plays.

Admittedly hes got like 3 fit senior players so won't have a whole lot of choice, but since he knows it's a short term gig he won't pull his punches and can drop whoever he likes.

Regardless of who comes in after, Tudor's tenure could be useful way of gauging who in our squad is committed and up for the fight and whos head is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He’s in the shop window too. He’s hopefully not going to fuck about. He has a lot to lose here and a lot to gain.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top