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Management Relegation

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Do you think we'll stay up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 184 40.1%

  • No

    Votes: 275 59.9%
  • Total voters
    459
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COYSinnit said:
This squad, on the wages we’re paying, shouldn’t be anywhere near a relegation fight - regardless of the manager. The lack of professional integrity is mind-blowing.

So how many managers have to go before people start que'stioning the players/squad?
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Fair to question then but when you look at teams like Brentford and Sunderland and see their managers get the absolute most out of them you have to ask yourself why a coach cannot at least do what those clubs are doing because there is no way either club have better squads or resources than us.
 
Shadydan said:
Fair to question then but when you look at teams like Brentford and Sunderland and see their managers get the absolute most out of them you have to ask yourself why a coach cannot at least do what those clubs are doing because there is no way either club have better squads or resources than us.
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It's a weird one. Guess it's some combination of:

- lopsided squad building: too many kids, lacking key profiles, not enough proven attacking quality
- bad manager fit: Ange too idealistic, job too big for Frank
- injuries: absolutely insane. take 11-12 players out of most squads and they'd look like a joke

The first 2 are a result of bad leadership higher-up: Lange being incompetent and the club not getting the manager picks right.

So...yeah the whole club is a mess. Brentford and Sunderland at the very least have managers who can get full buy-in from the players, squads that aren't reliant on raw 19 year olds in key positions, and have CMs that can pass the ball forward.
 
COYSinnit said:
This squad, on the wages we’re paying, shouldn’t be anywhere near a relegation fight - regardless of the manager. The lack of professional integrity is mind-blowing.

So how many managers have to go before people start que'stioning the players/squad?
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I agree but there are two extra stresses the club has compared to others.

1 we went from the most all guns blazing attacking manager to the most negative cowardly manager in the league and expect it to work. That is a disaster.

2 past two seasons we have had by far the worse injures of any team.Not sure why but playing each week with 10-12 absent players is killing us.
 
Richard Splash said:
But West Ham have shown that in abundance in the last 5 games whilst we have found a remarkable ability to concede goals and throw points away.

What games are you confident we win between now and the end of the season because I think there’s only 8 we can get anything from - we will lose to Woolwich, Chelsea, Liverpool, Villa, I’m sure of it. Wolves are a bogey side, Sunderland are strong at home. The other 6 we’ve a chance in but I’m not confident we will win any of them - and form tells us we won’t win more than 2 between now and the end of the season
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You’re basically arguing certainty in a situation that, by definition, isn’t certain.

Yes, West Han have had a better five game spell. That’s exactly the point, form changes. Ours can change as well, especially with a new manager and reset in mentality. Acting like the current dip is locked in until May just ignores how football actually works.

And why the fixation on the last five games?
Do we have five games left? No. We’ve got twelve, which is a much longer window for form to swing again. If West Ham’s last twelve matched the same upward trajectory as their last five, fair enough, I’d take the point. But they don’t. And let’s be honest, the run of fixtures they’ve just had has helped that good spell along.

Here’s the bigger flaw in your logic:
if you genuinely believe the results are already predetermined and we’ll barely win another game… what’s the point in even watching? You’ll watch because it isn’t certain. Because momentum swings, odd results happen, and relegation fights turn on a couple of games.

I’m not claiming a miracle run. I’m saying declaring it finished when there are still points to play for, a new manager bounce possible, and proof we can take points when it clicks is just unnecessary doom-mongering.

In a relegation scrap, having a route to points is a positive. Writing the ending in February isn’t realism, it’s pessimism dressed up as analysis.

There’s not much more I can add now anyway. At this point it’s simply wait and see. If you want to keep treating something uncertain as definite, crack on.
 
Richard Splash said:
I think we are working on different wave lengths - I’m confident they win this weekend and we don’t and the gap becomes 2 or 3 points - that will be 10 or 11 points they will have made on us in 7 weeks. People are not factoring in momentum at all for some reason
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See other post. You’re still doing the same thing, turning short-term swings into certainty and calling it momentum.

Even if they win and we don’t, that’s one result, not destiny. Seven weeks in a 38-game season is a snapshot, not the ending.
 
Beni said:
See other post. You’re still doing the same thing, turning short-term swings into certainty and calling it momentum.

Even if they win and we don’t, that’s one result, not destiny. Seven weeks in a 38-game season is a snapshot, not the ending.
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Momentum and belief are everything.

I don’t think we will go down because Forest are the ones actually fucked. But we can go down. More likely than at any point in the last 40-odd years.

We are decimated by injuries and poor results dating back well over two years if you want to play the cumulative fixtures game, rather than short term.

Ultimately it’s game by game, until it isn’t.

If the club didn’t think it was a possibility, Frank would still be in charge.
 
Timberwolf said:
It's a weird one. Guess it's some combination of:

- lopsided squad building: too many kids, lacking key profiles, not enough proven attacking quality
- bad manager fit: Ange too idealistic, job too big for Frank
- injuries: absolutely insane. take 11-12 players out of most squads and they'd look like a joke

The first 2 are a result of bad leadership higher-up: Lange being incompetent and the club not getting the manager picks right.

So...yeah the whole club is a mess. Brentford and Sunderland at the very least have managers who can get full buy-in from the players, squads that aren't reliant on raw 19 year olds in key positions, and have CMs that can pass the ball forward.
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We have only had a mad injury crisis from December onwards, before it was moderate

I'm fully looking at our ex coach for the position we are in this season, he didn't even get anywhere near the best out of our players.
 
Shadydan said:
We have only had a mad injury crisis from December onwards, before it was moderate

I'm fully looking at our ex coach for the position we are in this season, he didn't even get anywhere near the best out of our players.
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Yeah I agree, but even in the first 4 months he still had no Kulu, Maddison, Solanke, and Kulu Muani missed a fair bit too.

The lack of proven/creative attackers definitely impacted Frank throughout, but fuck me he's done about as poorly as possible regardless.
 
Murphy said:
Momentum and belief are everything.

I don’t think we will go down because Forest are the ones actually fucked. But we can go down. More likely than at any point in the last 40-odd years.

We are decimated by injuries and poor results dating back well over two years if you want to play the cumulative fixtures game, rather than short term.

Ultimately it’s game by game, until it isn’t.

If the club didn’t think it was a possibility, Frank would still be in charge.
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I don’t disagree with any of that. It’s the closest this has felt since the 90s, and even then it wasn’t this tight. The injuries are worrying and we absolutely can’t afford any more. I’m hoping Romero comes back refreshed and we get a few others fit for the key run-in from March, because that could make a big difference.

I agree, momentum matters, no question, but there are still enough games left to shift it. A new manager, fresh ideas, and a more positive approach to actually trying to win games should help us build that and get over the line. As for who goes down out of the other sides in the mix, I honestly don’t care, as long as it isn’t us.
 
2 questions:

-What's the 'magic' number of points we should be looking at before we can say we are out of the woods? I get matchematically we need to be 100% sure first but is there a ballpark points figure?
-What is Tudor's backroom staff looking like? Has he brought any of his own?
 
So, if the worst was to happen, where does the blame lie?

Board?
Frank?
Players?
Tudor?
Us? (I'm sure some cunt in the media will blame the fans)
 
Gif Rhys-Jones said:
2 questions:

-What's the 'magic' number of points we should be looking at before we can say we are out of the woods? I get matchematically we need to be 100% sure first but is there a ballpark points figure?
-What is Tudor's backroom staff looking like? Has he brought any of his own?
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I'd say 4 wins OR 3 wins and 3 draws (12 points) should see us safe, but of corse I want more than that.

Yeah he has brought in 3 of his own I believe. Which needed to happen in my opinion. A manager / head coach needs his own backroom staff there to help back him up and install his ideas on the team.

I actually have a good feeling about it. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong if it goes tits up haha
 
LukeyRix said:
I'd say 4 wins OR 3 wins and 3 draws (12 points) should see us safe, but of corse I want more than that.

Yeah he has brought in 3 of his own I believe. Which needed to happen in my opinion. A manager / head coach needs his own backroom staff there to help back him up and install his ideas on the team.

I actually have a good feeling about it. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong if it goes tits up haha
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Thanks for that, so we're looking at about 40 / 41 points.

Glad Tudor has brought people wiht him. Crucial IMO.
 
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