Summer 2015 Transfer Window DISCUSSION Thread

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He has kept some clean sheets with Köln this season (strong defensive side). The fans aren't really happy about him leaving, but they can understand it. They also desperately need money to strengthen their attack and avoid getting relegated again. Köln want 10 million for him.

If he signs for us, don't be fooled by his English. We sound fucking dumb when we are trying to talk:
 
Macch said:
Our defense has been a mess most of the season and you have to wonder if Vertongen leaving might be the best thing for both parties. I know he is loved here but he is not the same player we all fell in love with. Similar to Sandro he just seems to be missing something.

I think Dier has looked fine for a first season and Fazio is a decent third choice, but we're still missing that defensive anchor.
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Jan is almost great. But he does go forward at occasionally bad moments, and seems to be less vocal than we need in someone leading the line.

If he can solve those things, great. If not, well, nobody's perfect. If we find someone better, great again. I am not stressing too much on our CBs, with 4 decent ones likely for next year, at least.
 
Our defense is something like the 15th worst in the premier league.

Couldn't give a shit what anyone says about Jan. You're not a great defender or even a very good defender, with a record like that. The only ever present in defense is Jan.
 
Jayc1 said:
Our defense is something like the 15th worst in the premier league.

Couldn't give a shit what anyone says about Jan. You're not a great defender or even a very good defender, with a record like that. The only ever present in defense is Jan.
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Is the problem the actual defense though, or something happening further forward. Watching the games, the problems usually come from someone in front of the defense more than the defense itself.
 
Juicy Sushi said:
As far as knowing the quality of the respective youth programs goes, I judge based on the way clubs have done in the various tournaments. Most of the large clubs are not doing as well as we do. Chelsea is the major exception.

FFP does have loopholes, and Chelsea have been smart in exploiting them by buying up and stocking piling talent at various loan clubs. They generate profit through sales to cover for the signings they make. City don't really have any of that. They are investing in their Academy NOW, but didn't in the past, and this is biting them in the ass, since their first team squad is not built for the long term. They need to replace a lot of talent soon, and the players they need to move are all on very large, long-term contracts. They can't buy their way out of this, since they also have a seriously lack of home grown players.

I am not saying we can expect 2-3 first team quality players per season. But if you look at the current squad, we have at least 4 players who came out of our youth set-up, with Rose also developing under us. To that, we will likely see Onomah and Pritchard added next year, and possibly Carter-Vickers, Yedlin Walker-Peters close to ready as well. 10 players of the 25-man squad. We don't have to do that every year, but we do have a lot of young talent which most observers think will be of a very high quality coming through in the next couple of years.

Yes, that is cheaper, but it also has the benefit of players who already have time together, and in the same system as the first team, making it much easier for them to transition into our squad, and to play well.

Some other teams are also doing this, notably Soton, but most teams don't have the same numbers of players ready to fit into the squad.

As far as defining success goes, if you're going to look at European performances, then it should be fair to note that there's a solid pool of about 40 squads across Europe who are around our level or better. We can't win them all, and given the issues around Spurs in the last few years, it's not much of a surprise that we've arguably under-achieved, aside from one season.
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I think we're actually in agreement, I don't disagree with any of your points. I kind of started out by pointing out that lots of people seem convinced that we have some new, winning formula with youth sourcing and a production line about to explode us beyond where we have been and where we are now.

Whilst trying to be positive and optimistic, I can't say I'm convinced it is the 'given' that many are pinning their hopes on. It is being seen as ok because Poch is already lauded as the right choice to lead us and that it will be cheap and high risk, as opposed to expensive and therefore higher risk.

It will all be ok though if they play for the shirt and end up 6th-8th rather than invest in the right Adebayors and Modrics who are mercenary and only get us to 4th place twice??
 
Vertonghen does not command the line. He also takes to long on the ball. He has been very average again this year, and he's the best we have.
Our defence has been shite again and has only had 6 clean sheets in the EPL this season, 4 at home - two of them 0-0 draws, and only 2 away.
Lots of individual errors in defence and bad marking, positioning have cost us.
I actually remarked to some of my mates when we signed MP that I was worried about our defence improving as Southampton, despite all their world class defenders selling for millions and Scneiderlin/Wanayama had a defensive record similar to ours last year.
Last Season they only let in a few goals less than we did, 4 I think, but with 9 games to go they have let in a whopping 20 goals less than us this season.
Liverpool conceded the same as us last season, just scored more. This season they have also shored up and have let in 12 less than us with 9 games remaining.
Yet we have remained the same at the back!
Leicester have only let in 2 goals more than us & Sunderland 1. Stoke, Swansea, Spam, Palace, West Brom Hull and Villa all have conceded less.
If we let in one goal in each of our remaining games we will have equalled the GA we had last year.
 
Simmo said:
I think we're actually in agreement, I don't disagree with any of your points. I kind of started out by pointing out that lots of people seem convinced that we have some new, winning formula with youth sourcing and production line about to explode us beyond where we have been and where we are now.

Whilst trying to be positive and optimistic, I can't say I'm convinced it is the 'given' that many are pinning their hopes on. It is being seen as ok because Poch is already lauded as the right choice to read us and that it will be cheap and high risk, as opposed to expensive and therefore higher risk.

It will all be ok though if they play for the shirt and end up 6th-8th rather than invest in the right Adebayors and Modrics who are mercenary and only get us to 4th place twice??
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It depends on what you want. If you want to be entertained by the football you see, and don't care about the finishing position, sure. If you want titles, Cups and the like, probably not. I think we'll see the team built up over the next couple of years with an Academy-based core, some smart signings (Wimmer/Eriksen/etc) and a couple of very large money moves for essential pieces (a Schneiderlin or Depay).

Will it be enough to move us forward? I don't know, but I think the odds are higher than the massive churn of transfer signings which the Redknapp and AVB era teams used to try and find a competitive mix. It also seems to reflect Levy's own personal preferences, which is a topic a lot of people forget about with the team.
 
Juicy Sushi said:
Is the problem the actual defense though, or something happening further forward. Watching the games, the problems usually come from someone in front of the defense more than the defense itself.
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Dier v Newcastle, Fazio v Chlesea, Vertonghen mis kick v Swansea, Walker heading back to Lloris ( nearly a goal) these are off the top of my head, but I am very sure there are many more.
Oh yeah Vertonghen wimping v Sturridge and giving ball straight to Markovic, Rose giving away a stupid Penalty.
Vertonghen passing the ball straight to Welbeck when trying to tackle Giroud, Rose flat and hopelessly out of position, Ozil scores.....
 
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Benjamin said:
We've conceded so many goals, I wouldn't be surprised if we get two new CB's.
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It's not just the CBs, Mason and Bentaleb for all the love they get, and mostly deserve, have not been good enough shielding the back 4.

I think we all envisioned Mason being our box-to-box while Bentaleb was our shield, but it looks like we're still missing our true DM.
 
DeeGee said:
Dier v Newcastle, Fazio v Chlesea, Vertonghen mis kick v Swansea, Walker heading back to Lloris ( nearly a goal) these are off the top of my head, but I am very sure there are many more.
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There are, but a lot of them also come from our press failing higher up, like the first Utd goal last weekend. Neville tried to blame Dier for not moving over to cover, but the whole mess started when Andros was slow to press, and then half the team reacted by stepping up, and the others didn't which made the space available for Carrick.

I agree that we've made a lot of errors this year, and that's been our biggest problem. I am not sure though, that all of them are from the back line screwing up, rather than forwards and midfielders pressing incorrectly or being out of position, or making horrible passes.
 
Macch said:
It's not just the CBs, Mason and Bentaleb for all the love they get, and mostly deserve, have not been good enough shielding the back 4.

I think we all envisioned Mason being our box-to-box while Bentaleb was our shield, but it looks like we're still missing our true DM.
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We've been much, much better with a 3 man midfield of Dembele, Mason and Bentaleb. It moves Eriksen to the left, which is not ideal, but it's still been our best formation all season.

I think a pairing of Mason and Bentaleb alone just isn't enough, this year. Maybe in future they will be much better, but they aren't right now.
 
Juicy Sushi said:
Don't think it was a failure not to sign him. I think it was Soton knowing full well which of the players they had actually mattered to their team.

They couldn't afford to let him go. All of the people they sold could be replaced. He couldn't. I think we can still afford him, but in the "pay any price" sense.

Depay isn't a "starting winger" so much as a "growing superstar" and isn't going anywhere for less than 30 million. He's not going to be cheap. If we're spending 30 million on someone, I'd rather it be Schneiderlin.
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Also, can you imagine if the Woolwich scum signed him instead of us? He's exactly the kind of player they've needed for the last 5 years. Us signing him would be great, preventing him from signing for them wild be fantastic.
 
Juicy Sushi said:
There are, but a lot of them also come from our press failing higher up, like the first Utd goal last weekend. Neville tried to blame Dier for not moving over to cover, but the whole mess started when Andros was slow to press, and then half the team reacted by stepping up, and the others didn't which made the space available for Carrick.

I agree that we've made a lot of errors this year, and that's been our biggest problem. I am not sure though, that all of them are from the back line screwing up, rather than forwards and midfielders pressing incorrectly or being out of position, or making horrible passes.
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I agree with AT. Would rather have Lamela than him. Although Lamela tends to drift in, I prefer him to AT. At least he offers something in the way of passing and defence. AT may provide width, but he does nothing with it. If he crosses it's aimless with no awareness of his team mates positions. He does not look up and misses passes, and his one turn has been sussed out. He is really overrated. How he deserves an England call up I don't know. Downing and Jarvis must be screwing.
He also cannot shoot for shit.
Chadli has also been a shadow of himself since is loss. He was improving but seems to just be going through the motions atm.
I think it's a combination of errors, defending as a team and consistent organisation.
I watch the back 4 and there is nobody taking control. We need an organiser there. Dier talks a bit, but I suspect he doesn't want to tread on toes only being there a while.
Concentration and organisation of the back 2/4 are key especially playing with a high line.
Not enough tackles made by full backs and the two in front of midfield.
In fact Mason does ok but, and I may get some stick here, Nabil has to start making more. Mason is on par with Schneiderlin and Wanayama for tackles per game.
Also, like you said, Townsend has to start making as many tackles per game as Lamela when we haven't got the ball as does Chadli - as his tackling is non existent.
 
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