A dose of reality

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Sort by date Sort by reaction score

harry7

How much money have we lost due to Stadium Closure, lack of Champs League, refund of TV revenue (COVID), Mourinho
  • 134m fy2020 (difference between 2019 profit). Given improvements in other areas (sponsorship & NFL), the GAP is likely as high as 180m for expected vs reality.
  • 150m fy2021 (estimated by Levy in Nov20 ). This is likely to be higher with the 2nd Covid lockdown, Mourinho failure and prolonged closure of the stadium.
In summary, we are probably close to 400m behind where we would have forecast in 2019.​

Why is the club obsessed with Top 4
Unfortunately, under the current FIFA/UEFA setup (which everyone so desperately didn't want to change) Champions league is a clubs 2nd main source of revenue (behind EPL tv income). There is no (financial) incentive to win domestic cup and domestic league.
  • 2019 for example
  • Champions league final - 108m
  • Champions league last 16 = 63m
  • Domestic competitions (inc a semi final) = 3.1m
Why can't Levy or Joe gift the club $$$
Financial fair play rules do not allow this. Squad improvements can be made only with club revenue. Yes, City did bend the rules - but that's an entirely different argument.

We could issue more share capital too them. Or they could make a loan - but that would have to be paid back.

Sell all this crap lazy players - get new ones!
Every club is in the same boat. There is very little money to be spent. We have to sell players before we can buy them. How much do you expect WInks, Sissoko, Lamela, Aurier to fetch in the current market? 50m tops I would expect....Now you have to find 4 improvements with a 50m budget.

Why didn't we get CONTE - He's a winner
Unless he is happy with a good portion of the existing squad, it ain't going to happen.

Is there any hope?????
  • Stadium reopening
  • Stadium naming rights
  • NFL revenues
  • Sessegnon, Skipp, Scarlett, Devine, Parrott growing into good players for the future
  • With low expectations, the race for top 4 in 2022 should be quite exciting to watch
 
It's only Spurs getting hamstrung by COVID. Other clubs without CL football couldn't spend to improve their squad. Poor them.

Mourinho just walked into Spurs, and held Levy hostage and got himself the job. Nothing Levy the victim could have done.

ENIC had been allowing us to spend handsomely like when we made no signing for 18 months, right?

It's not even a well kept secret to commoner that if the owner want, they can set up proxy and loan money to club legally. Abramovich had been doing it since his takeover.
 
It should also be noted

Financial Fair Play limits a football club’s losses to a maximum of €30 million over a three-year monitoring period.

2019 : 68m profit
2020 : 63m Loss
2021 : 150m loss (estimated)

145m loss over 3 year period - We will ordinarily be in breach of financial fair play. Due to COVID UEFA decided that in the 2021 monitoring period only two years, the 2018–19 and 2019–20 seasons, will be covered.

In addition, the 2022 monitoring period will cover four years, 2018–19, 2019–20, 2020–21, and 2021–22 with the 2020–21 and 2021–22 seasons assessed as a single period and counted by the average.

So, we have a gap we will need to fill this financial year. Can anyone think of anything we can do to raise about 120m quid? If only we had something we could sell.........
 
harry7 said:
How much money have we lost due to Stadium Closure, lack of Champs League, refund of TV revenue (COVID), Mourinho
  • 134m fy2020 (difference between 2019 profit). Given improvements in other areas (sponsorship & NFL), the GAP is likely as high as 180m for expected vs reality.
  • 150m fy2021 (estimated by Levy in Nov20 ). This is likely to be higher with the 2nd Covid lockdown, Mourinho failure and prolonged closure of the stadium.
In summary, we are probably close to 400m behind where we would have forecast in 2019.​

Why is the club obsessed with Top 4
Unfortunately, under the current FIFA/UEFA setup (which everyone so desperately didn't want to change) Champions league is a clubs 2nd main source of revenue (behind EPL tv income). There is no (financial) incentive to win domestic cup and domestic league.
  • 2019 for example
  • Champions league final - 108m
  • Champions league last 16 = 63m
  • Domestic competitions (inc a semi final) = 3.1m
Why can't Levy or Joe gift the club $$$
Financial fair play rules do not allow this. Squad improvements can be made only with club revenue. Yes, City did bend the rules - but that's an entirely different argument.

We could issue more share capital too them. Or they could make a loan - but that would have to be paid back.

Sell all this crap lazy players - get new ones!
Every club is in the same boat. There is very little money to be spent. We have to sell players before we can buy them. How much do you expect WInks, Sissoko, Lamela, Aurier to fetch in the current market? 50m tops I would expect....Now you have to find 4 improvements with a 50m budget.

Why didn't we get CONTE - He's a winner
Unless he is happy with a good portion of the existing squad, it ain't going to happen.

Is there any hope?????
  • Stadium reopening
  • Stadium naming rights
  • NFL revenues
  • Sessegnon, Skipp, Scarlett, Devine, Parrott growing into good players for the future
  • With low expectations, the race for top 4 in 2022 should be quite exciting to watch
Click to expand...

While I appreciate the thought put into this and trying to be balanced, I'm not sure what the point is of this.

We know what the reality is. That's why the majority of people are unhappy.

  • Yes, we were financially impacted, but many other clubs were before and are now in an even more precarious financial situation that us.
  • As already pointed out, many owners "loan" money to the club and meet FFP regulations.
  • Our transfer policies have been horrendous, going from no spend to high spend and most of them not looking good by any stretch of the imagination.
  • It's not that we didn't get Conte that's the problem, it's the fact that we even pursued him when it completely contradicted Levy's message to the fans, and seemingly bungled our entire manager search.
  • Your first three reasons for hope are great for ENIC but not for our quality of football, I'm optimistic about our youth but this is another area we have bungled in the past, and I couldn't give a fuck about a top 4 race unless it includes us which I would put large sums of money on us not accomplishing next year.
 
harry7 said:
It should also be noted

Financial Fair Play limits a football club’s losses to a maximum of €30 million over a three-year monitoring period.

2019 : 68m profit
2020 : 63m Loss
2021 : 150m loss (estimated)

145m loss over 3 year period - We will ordinarily be in breach of financial fair play. Due to COVID UEFA decided that in the 2021 monitoring period only two years, the 2018–19 and 2019–20 seasons, will be covered.

In addition, the 2022 monitoring period will cover four years, 2018–19, 2019–20, 2020–21, and 2021–22 with the 2020–21 and 2021–22 seasons assessed as a single period and counted by the average.

So, we have a gap we will need to fill this financial year. Can anyone think of anything we can do to raise about 120m quid? If only we had something we could sell.........
Click to expand...

Good thing that FFP has no real teeth.
 
FightingIllini said:
Guys, infrastructure expenditures are exempt from FFP. The incentives there being obvious.
Click to expand...
Correct. The stadium / training facility weren't financed from our Football revenues. They were financed via a loan.

Spurs borrowed £637m from Goldman Sachs, Bank of America Merrill Lynch and HSBC for the £1bn project and the money was due to be repaid by April 2022. But through US investors Levy has converted roughly £525m of the debt into a bond scheme, with staggered maturities of between 15 and 30 years.

This means that the club will need to pay back an average of £37 million-a-year until 2042. However, the club’s matchday revenue projected increase from £45.3 million at White Hart Lane to more than £100 million at the new stadium.



https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...league-team-news-injury-updates-and-more-live
 
I have no hope for us anymore either in terms of competing for the CL places again. ENIC are going to let us backslide in to the mid table as more and more events at full capacity will be held at "the stadium" (let's be serious it's not going to be ours in 3 years) I wouldn't be surprised if we go back to mediocrity and selling our best players.

ENIC have reached their goal, and that was to build a multiuse venue to boost their own income stream. We were just the ride that they used to get there in the long run.

I now understand that article about ENIC from years ago when they were talking about how football was one of the best forms of business, and you know what. They were right.

RIP Tottenham Hotspur and WHL.

Welcome to Levy FC and "the venue".

There's your dose of reality.
 
ILSpur said:
Good thing that FFP has no real teeth.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about don't you remember all those punishments that City faced when they were found guilty?

How could we manage having all punishments overturned and the fines returned to us. Would be a crippling blow to any club dealing with those kind of harsh sanctions.

Obviously it is FFP holding us back and not Levy/ENIC at all.
 
Interesting post . I can understand that the stadium closure caused great financial strain but would the club count not having CL revenue as a loss if we couldn’t even make it into the competition? I’m clearly not in the financial field but isn’t it more of a bonus?

I have zero issue with the stadium being designed and used for other events when matches are not being played. The more revenue it generates the better. It’s an amazing stadium for football, thus there is nothing wrong with having the extra income. If it was a garbage design for football like West Ham’s Olympic running track then I would understand the hate. I assume that the vast majority of the animosity towards the multi sports complex idea is directed at ENIC for multiple reasons, including (but not limited to) the lack of investment of CL bonus money back into the squad...we still don’t have a backup striker and it has been years.
 
T.K. Massive said:
I have no hope for us anymore either in terms of competing for the CL places again. ENIC are going to let us backslide in to the mid table as more and more events at full capacity will be held at "the stadium" (let's be serious it's not going to be ours in 3 years) I wouldn't be surprised if we go back to mediocrity and selling our best players.

ENIC have reached their goal, and that was to build a multiuse venue to boost their own income stream. We were just the ride that they used to get there in the long run.

I now understand that article about ENIC from years ago when they were talking about how football was one of the best forms of business, and you know what. They were right.

RIP Tottenham Hotspur and WHL.

Welcome to Levy FC and "the venue".

There's your dose of reality.
Click to expand...

I get your point; but if all they care about is money - then the football results are important.

  1. We get about 120m a year in Sponsorship and endorsements.
  2. Champions league offers between 60-100m depending on progress.
  3. 100m a year from stadium revenue.
Now, if our results slide - we will likely reduce income from (1) and lose (2) entirely. I doubt results would impact (3) given that we have the longest ticket waiting list in the EPL.

However, is it financially prudent to spend 50-100m per season on players to increase your chances of (2)? We've spend 260m on players over the past 2 seasons; with only 70m of income from sales...and our squad has gone backwards in terms of quality.

It's clear any incoming coach has to work with what we already have; or sell to buy.
 
MontrealBagels said:
Interesting post . I can understand that the stadium closure caused great financial strain but would the club count not having CL revenue as a loss if we couldn’t even make it into the competition? I’m clearly not in the financial field but isn’t it more of a bonus?
Click to expand...


Not a loss on the balance sheet - but certainly a loss in terms of expectation vs reality.

We cannot expect to sign elite players; and indeed retain our existing elite players without this income. It's up to our youth now to punch above their weight and get us back in the top 4.
 
harry7 said:
How much money have we lost due to Stadium Closure, lack of Champs League, refund of TV revenue (COVID), Mourinho
  • 134m fy2020 (difference between 2019 profit). Given improvements in other areas (sponsorship & NFL), the GAP is likely as high as 180m for expected vs reality.
  • 150m fy2021 (estimated by Levy in Nov20 ). This is likely to be higher with the 2nd Covid lockdown, Mourinho failure and prolonged closure of the stadium.
In summary, we are probably close to 400m behind where we would have forecast in 2019.​

Why is the club obsessed with Top 4
Unfortunately, under the current FIFA/UEFA setup (which everyone so desperately didn't want to change) Champions league is a clubs 2nd main source of revenue (behind EPL tv income). There is no (financial) incentive to win domestic cup and domestic league.
  • 2019 for example
  • Champions league final - 108m
  • Champions league last 16 = 63m
  • Domestic competitions (inc a semi final) = 3.1m
Why can't Levy or Joe gift the club $$$
Financial fair play rules do not allow this. Squad improvements can be made only with club revenue. Yes, City did bend the rules - but that's an entirely different argument.

We could issue more share capital too them. Or they could make a loan - but that would have to be paid back.

Sell all this crap lazy players - get new ones!
Every club is in the same boat. There is very little money to be spent. We have to sell players before we can buy them. How much do you expect WInks, Sissoko, Lamela, Aurier to fetch in the current market? 50m tops I would expect....Now you have to find 4 improvements with a 50m budget.

Why didn't we get CONTE - He's a winner
Unless he is happy with a good portion of the existing squad, it ain't going to happen.

Is there any hope?????
  • Stadium reopening
  • Stadium naming rights
  • NFL revenues
  • Sessegnon, Skipp, Scarlett, Devine, Parrott growing into good players for the future
  • With low expectations, the race for top 4 in 2022 should be quite exciting to watch
Click to expand...
Fuck off with your Dollars.
 
harry7 said:
Every club is in the same boat. There is very little money to be spent.
Click to expand...
Absolute bullshit - stop repeating these shameless ENIC lies

Villa just signed a 30m player - LMFAO

And the reason we don’t have naming rights yet is due to one man’s cunting greed and inability to deliver

ENIC OUT

LEVY OUT
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom