A Philosophical Objection to VAR

[r-u-s-x]

Read what you posted

'' It's working as originally intended, clear and obvious and matters of fact ''

I was correcting

. If it has to be used then only for clear and obvious errors which is what i thought was the original intention.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Seems to me that VAR is incompatible with the essence of footie. IMHO, goal line technology was right, but enough. Footie is a game of immediacy and passion. When you are at a game, what you live for is when your side scores. All hell erupts, it’s bloody marvellous. VAR steals that from you. Apart from the goal line, footie does not have to be a game of inches.

Other than the US (?) there are issues with it everywhere - my opinion is formed from various podcasts but Spain / Germany / Italy still dislike it - it takes away more than it gives. Its not just teething issues and its not just the way the EPL have decided to do it.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It was better when football had the same rules for every competition. I can't even remember when it started to go the wrong way. VAR in a league cup match, but not in european qualifiers ? I think one of the reasons why football was so fascinating and attracted such a big audience world wide was that no matter what match you watched it was played under the same rules. Now you have to look up the rules before you start watching a match ....

I kind of agree and have used that argument myself but have no objection to goal line technology and those championing VAR believe it could be as streamlined.... I do not.

 

[Turfie]

I kind of agree and have used that argument myself but have no objection to goal line technology and those championing VAR believe it could be as streamlined.... I do not.

of course not... Just look how they call it in england: video assistant referee. In germany they call it: videobeweis ( Video evidence) I will not list up all the different rules because that would take too much time Maybe one day the UEFA orFIFA will come up with a system on which all countries can agree on. But I think before that happens it is more likely that I will pay with € for my beer in the new stadium

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

I honestly was in favour of it initially, but the way it's being used to scrutinise every aspect of every goal has destroyed the elation of celebrating and now I just feel trepidation when we score.

That’s the crux of it. VAR changes the spectacle of the game.

It can still add excitement, such as the disallowed City goal in the CL last season, but we shouldn’t be celebrating things like that.

 

[Rocket]

That’s the crux of it. VAR changes the spectacle of the game.

It can still add excitement, such as the disallowed City goal in the CL last season, but we shouldn’t be celebrating things like that.

Also, that novelty is wearing off now too. The disallowed one against Sheff. U. was castigated by a lot of Spurs fans in the stadium at the time. The goal should obviously have stood. A number of fans did celebrate the chalking off, but a number (including me) didn't. Just didn't feel right. I think there may even have been some Spurs fans joining in the "Fuck VAR" chant after the game eventually restarted.

 

[FightingIllini]

It takes away more than it adds to the game

This, at the end of the day, is all there is to it. And it's not even close.

VAR is the death of football.

 

[shempz]

The illusion of precision.

Exactly...using VAR for offside is still open to human error. e.g. Firmino was given marginally offside earlier in the season by VAR. However, I'd contend that whoever was using VAR got it wrong, and did not draw the lines correctly - I think it was the line from the defender's knee (Mings?) to the ground was not long enough because VAR does not have a fully 3D model/view of the pitch, and the VAR person made a mistake.

 

[Rocket]

The idea that the camera can freeze-frame on the exact moment of contact with the ball is also the illusion of precision.

But we could do this all day. Ultimately I really appreciate the title of this thread because while VAR is a total mess in many technical ways, what we are dealing with here is not a manufacturing defect, we are dealing with something that is philosophically wrong. It is the wrong answer to the wrong question and will be a poison on the game for as long as it is inflicted.

It is also DEFINITELY a manufacturing defect. Not only is it a very poor idea, it is also procedurally broken.

in other words and to sum up I’d like to say

Fuck VAR

 

[Tomo]

I think a big issue with VAR is when it is used and interpretation. I thought the penalty against Wolves was harsh but equally I though Adama could have been done for a push on the back of Mendy for the 2nd Wolves goal.

VAR treats football like a science but so much of football is personal interpretation of incidents in relation to the rules. Video replays can’t always solve that and any decision particularly if it is cancelling a goal is always going to be controversial.

At minimum the advantage always has to be given to the goal scoring team, clear and obvious need to be the order of the day and I include offsides in that.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

I agree with this.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Inconclusive...

 

[bus-conductor]

Fucking hell. For years all I've heard is people whining about shit offside decisions and conspiracy theories about refs inconsistency ruining football

"all we want is consistency "

We get a system that has pretty much eradicated the incorrect offside decision and now it's

"football isn't supposed to be about consistency"

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

Premier League is using VAR wrong for offside reviews, suggests Ifab

Lukas Brud has insisted the use of the Video Assistant Referee should be reserved for ‘clear and obvious’ errors and not numerous replays for marginal decisions

www.independent.co.uk

IFAB calling out the Prem for using VAR wrong now.

lol

 

[ArcspacE]

I agree with this.

Doesn’t work with offsides though

 

[bus-conductor]

it hasnt eradicated it. weve seen two this week that were wrong. (one of which was in our favour)

the only way to eradicate it is to be able to capture the image at the precise moment the ball is played.
its still an opinion, that the player is offside. just a better informed one.

I said "pretty much". Either way, it's virtually eradicated it, and a vastly more informed one that what went before it, which was one guy with a flag supposedly looking in two opposing places at once and guessing.

 

[bus-conductor]

Except it hasn't. VAR is still subject to human error for offside decisions - and has actually made a few errors and been subject to guesswork on the offside 'line'.

Except it has, as I said, "pretty much" eradicated it. It is vastly - and I mean fucking vastly - superior to what went before, and the software will continue to improve.

 

[FightingIllini]

VAR isn't the problem.

Forgive me my hubris on this, but truly, American sports fans are speaking to you all from the future with respect to replay in sports.

VAR is, and always will be, the problem. It's only going to get worse. And that's just from the perspective of creating clarity and reliability, where it has been an abject failure in all American sports in exactly the way it has done in the PL. But stops and starts and delays and breaks are a natural part of all of those games, to varying degrees. The costs are so much higher in football.

It is creeping death, and it will never get better.

 

[Bazali]

it hasnt eradicated it. weve seen two this week that were wrong. (one of which was in our favour)

the only way to eradicate it is to be able to capture the image at the precise moment the ball is played.
its still an opinion, that the player is offside. just a better informed one.

Or 3D Var

 

[CaptainWow]

The ‘clear and obvious’ part of it is what I support. It’s very difficult of course, because the obvious errors need to be identified in a matter of seconds to avoid games constantly halting. Red and yellow cards should be fine for VAR (again, if it’s immediately obvious). Corners should be a ten or twenty second decision.

The big thing for me would be for VAR to be ok with not being decisive. It’s ok to admit that some decisions are ambiguous, and therefore not something VAR can decide.

For me, Dele’s beautiful goal against United could easily have been ruled out. It was human choice that decided if it was or wasn’t a goal. If it gets to that point it should simply be considered inconclusive.

There’s always going to be disputed decisions in sport. Technology like this should be used to identify the obvious errors that anyone watching would agree with, like Kane’s offside against Brighton.

You're right. One of the biggest problems is that the people running VAR want it to be perfect. Or at least appear to be perfect. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to help make things better without ruining the flow of the game.