An Historic Day

[Totti]

Just a shame that since 2008 you got Man City becoming a force - it added another obstacle for us to get over when it comes to winning a trophy.

We absolutely should have won a trophy since, especially looking at teams that have won trophies since and the squads weve had.

But I find it hard to blame owners for not being able to beat Portsmouth in a semi final, losing in numerous semi finals over and over again. I can understand blaming them for not investing to see us compete in multiple competitions with depth but in one off games in Cup games is simply down to management and players involved.

What a fucking day though.

 

[Spursidol]

Modern day success is only sustainable with money though. If people can stomach it or not that's a different thing completely.

Outright Winning Carabao Cup = £100k

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Outright Winning the FA Cup = £3.6m

Emirates FA Cup prize fund

The Emirates FA Cup prize fund listed round-by-round for season 2019-20

www.thefa.com

Winning a group game in the Champions League = €2.7m

Winning a knockout game in the Champions League = €10.5m (£8.8m)

Winners of 2019/20 Champions League could receive over 80 million euros in prize money

The winners of next season's Champions League could receive more than 80 million euros in prize money.Teams will be financially rewarded for...

www.marca.com

When it comes tomattracting players, the money is vital to doing so, its the nature of the beast. As fans we all want silverware but the guys who have shares in the ownership of the club and want money in order to invest further? All I'll say is winning 1 knockout round in the Champions League gets the coffers a staggering EIGHT THOUSAND, EIGHT HUNDRED PERCENT MORE than winning the Carabao Cup.

Money helps buy top players, we have protised having the money so that we can grow as a club. It's not glamorous or beautiful but it helps to get us big enough to have beautiful moments Jerry. It's growth and if growth continues 4th becomes 2nd, finalists become winners but of course it's not a natural trajectory always, there's always obstacles like emerging rivals, players wanting to leave, injuries a lack of form, not getting the right players in, morale etc. How we do it is the epitome of the saying it's not a sprint it's a marathon but sadly it's the right way to go about it even if I do believe we should have taken a few more risks here and there matey.

Just to add to that.

The players want/demand and are paid by all clubs very large sums of money. First team players at Spurs (eg Ndombele) are reputed to be on £200k pw (£10m pa) or more whilst even young players can be on significant sums - Tanganga's new contract is rumoured to be worth £15k pa (£750k). So the average player contract probably edging towards £80k pw (£4m pa) either now or next season after this summer's transfer activity. And that will continue to grow as Spurs close the gap between our wage structure and the other top clubs in PL.

All that should immediately demonstrate that the players might like silverware, but will only stay if Spurs are regularly successful in PL and CL (eg top 4 and out of the CL group stages - winning either would be very nice and welcomed by players and fans alike - but not essential) as its that level which pays the wages they would like to be accustomed to.

 

[1882]

12 years ago today, folks, 24 February 2008, Tottenham Hotspur won their last trophy.
A solitary Carling Cup.

In the previous 8 years with Levy at the wheel we won.........Sweet fuck-all

Surely this proves that either our owners don't give a damn about winning stuff, or, if they do, they're making a complete pigs arse of the job.

Such a momentus occassion surely deserves a poll.

For all the cult members, I'll include a third option too.

And a 4th.

You say "solitary Carling Cup"
....but just HOW many Cups were we expected to win in ONE day?

I'd say winning a 'solitary Cup' in one day constitutes a good days' work!!!




But yes, I see your point!

 

[1882]

The club need to make money....

Finishing 4th is more financially rewarding than winning the League Cup, and about the same (give or take) than winning the FA Cup...

Unless we're planning on winning the LEAGUE any time soon...

It's not the fault of the club... it's the way prize money (and 'importance') is placed on certain competitions....

The domestic Cups are for the Fans...

CL Qualification is for the Boardroom and the bank account!!

 

[AlabamaSpur]

The club need to make money....

Finishing 4th is more financially rewarding than winning the League Cup, and about the same (give or take) than winning the FA Cup...

Unless we're planning on winning the LEAGUE any time soon...

It's not the fault of the club... it's the way prize money (and 'importance') is placed on certain competitions....

The domestic Cups are for the Fans...

CL Qualification is for the Boardroom and the bank account!!

Fans don't like it but this is the truth.

 

[Spursidol]

Worth reminding people that since Levy came to the club, the whole of football has been distorted by the Russian Oligarch pouring money 'stolen' from the Russian people into Chelsea and the mega oil riches pouring money into ManCity (despite the limited number of fans it has).

Both owners have their reasons for doing so - the first to create a significant public presence outside Russia so as to create a reason not to go back to Russia (slightly hamstrung by his recent lack of UK visa) whilst the 2nd wants similar publicity to overcome the owner's country's appalling human rights record. Neither owner cares for football or its rules or the harm to football created by the flood of money distorting the game and ability of other clubs to compete to buy players and pay them wages.

So with both clubs able to 'buy' their way to 2 of the top 4 places in PL, its tough for other clubs to compete.

The fact we have grown from being lower PL table fodder in the Sugar years before ENIC to being regularly in the top 6 and even top 4 in recent years is pretty much a miracle - and this alongside building a new stadium and training ground costing a billion (with about 50% already paid for and the balance to be paid over the next 20 odd years).

With this new stadium we can now look at Woolwich and Chelsea at the same financial level of revenues and get much closer to Liverpool. And that means over the next couple of years being able to build squads which match our top 4 ambitions, with some years doing better and winning silverware.

Can we award John Thomas the Dianne Abbott award for financial understanding - her repeated 'goofs' of getting financial questions wrong by a factor of 10 or more sums up John Thomas faability to understand what it takes to put together winning squads. And pay the multi hundred million pound wages they require these days !

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Just a shame that since 2008 you got Man City becoming a force - it added another obstacle for us to get over when it comes to winning a trophy.

We absolutely should have won a trophy since, especially looking at teams that have won trophies since and the squads weve had.

But I find it hard to blame owners for not being able to beat Portsmouth in a semi final, losing in numerous semi finals over and over again. I can understand blaming them for not investing to see us compete in multiple competitions with depth but in one off games in Cup games is simply down to management and players involved.

What a fucking day though.

You know what scares me (and the bad luck argument can be justified to a degree) it's fine saying ah but City 2008.... However what's to stop the next sports washing juggernaut coming along to unseat Levy's new post stadium plan. Let's say a team in black and white stripes. Levy and ENIC have stood at an open door on at least two occasions and did not push. That's not how you become successful in life at anything, yes diligence and planning matter, but sometimes you have to gamble. Whatever happens from here I don't believe Levy is the man to take us the next step, he lacks the vision and guts. In many ways the appointment of a known quantity in Mourinho is him reverting to type. The Pochettino hire was a rare bit of visionary thinking on his part.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

The club need to make money....

Finishing 4th is more financially rewarding than winning the League Cup, and about the same (give or take) than winning the FA Cup...

Unless we're planning on winning the LEAGUE any time soon...

It's not the fault of the club... it's the way prize money (and 'importance') is placed on certain competitions....

The domestic Cups are for the Fans...

CL Qualification is for the Boardroom and the bank account!!

The harsh reality of it is that without money you can only stay at the top for only so long. If we want longevity in our potential success, we need to think about the money to give us that platform. If not and people want to see us priotising domestic cup success over long term spells punching at the top then they should also accept that would come with plenty of years where we can't compete with the other big 5-6 in and around us.

The Champions League accounts for about 1/3rd of our revenue. Without it we are closer to breaking even than we are recording world record profits. In fact we'd probably be looking at around £10m-£20m as the bottom line to have and do what we please with. It's just the nature of the beast mate.

 

[John Thomas]

You know what scares me (and the bad luck argument can be justified to a degree) it's fine saying ah but City 2008.... However what's to stop the next sports washing juggernaut coming along to unseat Levy's new post stadium plan. Let's say a team in black and white stripes. Levy and ENIC have stood at an open door on at least two occasions and did not push. That's not how you become successful in life at anything, yes diligence and planning matter, but sometimes you have to gamble. Whatever happens from here I don't believe Levy is the man to take us the next step, he lacks the vision and guts. In many ways the appointment of a known quantity in Mourinho is him reverting to type. The Pochettino hire was a rare bit of visionary thinking on his part.

Post of the Thread right here

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

You know what scares me (and the bad luck argument can be justified to a degree) it's fine saying ah but City 2008.... However what's to stop the next sports washing juggernaut coming along to unseat Levy's new post stadium plan. Let's say a team in black and white stripes. Levy and ENIC have stood at an open door on at least two occasions and did not push. That's not how you become successful in life at anything, yes diligence and planning matter, but sometimes you have to gamble. Whatever happens from here I don't believe Levy is the man to take us the next step, he lacks the vision and guts. In many ways the appointment of a known quantity in Mourinho is him reverting to type. The Pochettino hire was a rare bit of visionary thinking on his part.

Sometimes it's not just about having vision and guts though, sometimes it's deeper than that.

We have just agreed a new loan repayment with the banks that spreads out pay back date from a couple of years time through to another 25-30 years. How can we be sure that the conditions of this new agreement doesn't have finer details involved such as money/ cash in the bank or X amount of profits always being reached to act as safeguards for the repayment? The deal we got was far better than the one Woolwich, a team with far better finances at the time of building their stadium so without knowing how our deal was struck, how can we be sure that it's merely vision and guts that prevents us taking such steps and risks to move forward?

Banks will look for, and rightly so certain assurances based on activity before brokering deals. Is it therefore a lack of guts and vision or are we simply hamstrung based on circumstances we had to adhere to in order to take the club to the next steps we all strive to see us take and get to?

 

[Linesman]

Cant hang on to our best players anymore, amazing Harry has stayed the course.

 

[Leviathan]

I get fans want trophies, but it’s not as if most clubs win trophies. Only a small number of clubs actually win trophies, and with some notable exceptions, it’s only the the big-spending clubs that win anything.

Only 6 teams have won the league cup since 2008:
ManU, Birmingham, Liverpool, Swansea, Chelsea and Man City.

Only 5 teams have won the FA Cup since 2008: Chelsea, Man City, Woolwich, Wigan and ManU.

4 teams have won the Premier League since 2008: Chelsea, ManU, City and Leicester. (5 if you count Liverpool this year)

That’s only 9 different clubs that have won a trophy in the last 12 years.

Would Wigan, Swansea and Birmingham fans give up the trophy they won in recent years to play in a CL final, or even qualify for the CL? I’m guessing they would. Spurs have come a long way since 2008 and will eventually start winning trophies but to focus on the current trophy drought as a marker of success is shortsighted, IMO.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

What a cunt of a thread.

Only the second thread I have ever put on ignore.

Embarrassing.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

I get fans want trophies, but it’s not as if most clubs win trophies. Only a small number of clubs actually win trophies, and with some notable exceptions, it’s only the the big-spending clubs that win anything.

Only 6 teams have won the league cup since 2008:
ManU, Birmingham, Liverpool, Swansea, Chelsea and Man City.

Only 5 teams have won the FA Cup since 2008: Chelsea, Man City, Woolwich, Wigan and ManU.

4 teams have won the Premier League since 2008: Chelsea, ManU, City and Leicester. (5 if you count Liverpool this year)

Would Wigan, Swansea and Birmingham fans give up the trophy they won in recent years to play in a CL final, or even qualify for the CL? I’m guessing they would. Spurs have come a long way since 2008 and will eventually start winning trophies but to focus on the current trophy drought as a marker of success is shortsighted, IMO.

It's not just the experience of playing in the CL and the CL final, it's the ability to be constistently better and sustainable with it all at the same time.

Imagine how Swansea & Birmingham would look as a football club mow with the extra revenue the CL brings. Compare that to the £100k prize money the Carabao Cup brings with it present day.

Silverware is the big thing we all remember but a football club isn't just a football club, it's a business that pays people's wages, invests in assets, gets scrutinised by accountants and faces the prospects of administration or liquidation like any other business that doesn't operate with financial quality does.

To put it into context Birminghams prize asset, Jude Bellingham is being touted for a PL move at around he £20m mark according to some reports. That's less than two rounds of knockout football in the CL gets you. Your biggest talent in decades is worth two rounds of CL football basically. It's a huge feather in a teams cap to be playing at this level. If it wasn't, teams with a slim to no chance of winning it would surely just finish 3rd in their groups and focus on the UEFA Cup instead wouldn't they?

 

[John Thomas]

What a cunt of a thread.

Only the second thread I have ever put on ignore.

Embarrassing.

SpiderSpurs are you taking me up on my £100 charity bet that Mourinho wont match or better Poch's miracle of taking an ENIC team to a CL final?

You pissed over my claims that Poch worked a miracle, and went on to claim that Jose will achieve more with Spurs than the magic man

You keep running away. I took you up on your bet offer,
Are you backing your big mouth or you backing down?

 

[Doom Funk]

People talking about us prioritising top 4 over a cup when we have made an absolute pigs ear of trying to get top 4 this year with the decisions we have made

 

[1882]

I get fans want trophies, but it’s not as if most clubs win trophies. Only a small number of clubs actually win trophies, and with some notable exceptions, it’s only the the big-spending clubs that win anything.

Only 6 teams have won the league cup since 2008:
ManU, Birmingham, Liverpool, Swansea, Chelsea and Man City.

Only 5 teams have won the FA Cup since 2008: Chelsea, Man City, Woolwich, Wigan and ManU.

4 teams have won the Premier League since 2008: Chelsea, ManU, City and Leicester. (5 if you count Liverpool this year)

That’s only 9 different clubs that have won a trophy in the last 12 years.

Would Wigan, Swansea and Birmingham fans give up the trophy they won in recent years to play in a CL final, or even qualify for the CL? I’m guessing they would. Spurs have come a long way since 2008 and will eventually start winning trophies but to focus on the current trophy drought as a marker of success is shortsighted, IMO.

The fact Leicester (League) Wigan, Swansea, Birmingham (Cups) have done it, shows it CAN be done, but yes, at what cost?

Man City are about to be exposed for the OBSCENE amounts of money they have thrown at gaining success...

Man Utd and Liverpool have spent vast amounts... you COULD argue that ArseAnal, with their new ground to pay for, did it the most 'legitimate' way... and it SEEMS as if we're following their example/business model.

Pay for the ground with CL Qualification money... the only thing missing is the occasional Cup along the way!!

 

[sammyspurs]

Stadium didn’t open one year ago yet and how everyone has forgotten its main purpose is pretty shocking really.

Also quite funny the number of people who still think new owners could come in and act like Roman did 17 years ago.
Good luck with that.

 

[Cranston]

No idea.

But they need to buy some players this Summer. For the first time, I think it will give us a very clear indication of where ENIC’s priorities lie.

If they stump up for a couple of cheap, young ‘potential’ players then they’re simply polishing an asset.

 

[hiatus]

John I think you've convinced everyone that not winning trophies is bad but I doubt you're going to convince anyone else that the blame lies entirely on ownership.