But we didn't know that at the time things were capitulating in the League though did we? Based on form Ange should have been sacked long before we lifted the trophy.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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Thats irrelevant lol The club justifiably so gambled because we were still in with a realistic chance of winning a trophy (we were favs for the EL all season) how are you even comparing it to now when we're nowhere near favs or even good enough to win the CL?
How's it irrelevant? Ange did absolutely nothing to deserve to stay apart from be "still in Europe", anyone could have achieved that given the relative competition, so there was no need to "gamble" and stick with him in particular.
Frank is still in Europe, chance of being top 8 and avoiding the qualifying knockout round, in a tougher competition. Surely being fair he should receive the same grace?
I don't want him to, but fair's fair right?
Anyone could have achieved that yet we hadn't won a trophy for 17 years prior and by the way had better players and lost to worse teams in previous competitions, remember being knocked out to teams like fekin Genk and Zagreb when their manager was in prison? lmao
Frank deserves fuck all because our season is over, out of all the cup competitions and we are not going to win the CL and it's obvious that players and fans have had enough of him and his football...unless you believe in magic fairies, he's done nothing to deserve anymore backing and has nothing to hold onto, not even a 5th place finish in his first season like Ange had...the two situations are entirely different in that regard.
And tbh with you who's had it tougher in Europe, Frank's toughest match was PSG, the rest have been fodder just like our EL run last season, we even struggled against Bodo who Ange beat twice, comfortably. Difference is last season we won, this season we are getting nowhere near this trophy.
Ange never sacked off the league. That's just what he said to make it out as though he wasn't culpable for the absolute dross we were serving up. Ange had zero humility or understanding of his own limitations. We were shit in the league because the quality of opposition was demonstrably a lot higher than anything else he had encountered and the SPL is about Ange's ceiling.
You keep bringing up the 'hadn't won previously' thing, does that mean you honestly think that there was something special about Ange? You honestly give him credit for some quality that isn't possessed by Poch, Conte, Mourinho, Redknapp, Jol etc?
Presumably you also, give the same credit to Graham and Ramos who also won trophies?
Villareal and Dortmund are better than any side Ange beat in the EL aside from in the final where he played a still terrible United side.
Remove the benefit of hindsight and you could say the same at this point last season then.
Winning in Europe, regardless of how shit you consider the opposition, has to either be a relevant defence of both Managers, or of neither.
Frank should be penalised more harshly for being in the "tougher" competition should he?
It’s not about pretending Ange has some mystical quality other managers didn’t. It’s about context and achievement.
Spurs had gone nearly two decades without a trophy despite having managers like Poch, Mourinho and Conte, all good managers, 2 of them elite winners ao yes, when someone actually comes in and does end that run, it’s obviously going to count for something - That’s not saying he’s better than all of them in ability, it’s acknowledging he succeeded where others didn’t.
I've heard some of the most stupidest arguments about how Ange wasn't responsible for winning this trophy wrapped up in a whole load of mental gymnastics about how the players took it upon themselves to win it but yet cannot explain why, if it was so easy, we've had better players in the past and gone out to weaker opponents previously yet these same set of players cannot even fekin galvanise themselves to beat West Ham or Burnley.
Same Villareal who sit 2nd bottom of thr CL group yet Bodo are comfortably above them?
Yeah Dortmund I will give you
Why would you remove hindsight when we know the outcome was entireley positive, that doesn't make sense??
You want to re-write history so that aligns with your argument, sorry you can't do that.
Frank should be penalised because there is absolutely nothing to get behind surely you can see that? You tell me your justification in Keeping Frank in this job? Just one thing please because no one in this anbase seems to know why hes still here, the only people keeping him in this job are Vinai and Lange who are totally inept?
When Frank actually manages to win in Europe and by that I mean a trophy then he will get his flowers, but you know full well we aren't going to win the CL so I don't see why you are trying to get behind him.
Ange was a shit league manager and Frank is even shitter - it’s as simple as that.
Thanks for the Europa Ange. Frank fuck if you floppy haired gimp.
Let’s get Poch back
Thanks for the Europa Ange. Frank fuck if you floppy haired gimp.
Let’s get Poch back
I mention Frank because he's won nothing. Ever.
And he's only in Europe because of Postecoglou's trophy.
Its been done to death but the Europa Cup was prioritized given the players available. Of course the intention was not to finish 17.
I see the Europa Cup win as an indicator of winning mentality. I'd rather that be the focus, the league finish where the shallow squad was exposed ( and TBF to Frank it is again this season).
Because we're talking about the decision making process last year prior to us winning the Cup.
If being in Europe was a valid case for keeping the manager then, then it should also be now.
I'm not totally sure you're actually reading what I'm writing, I'm not justifying keeping him, I want him to go, but by the logic we applied last year then he should be left in post until all trophy winning avenues have been exhausted surely?
Colour me amazed
You’re not really being serious? A cursory look at the knockout rounds of the Europa last season and you could make the argument we’d win it, despite all the experts on here saying we’d get humped out at the soonest opportunity.
Do you really think we’ve a chance of winning the CL? Like, any chance at all? Even a fraction of one percent?
We're talking about the frank appointment.
I'd rather the PL this season ended after fixture 1, but it didn't did it?
You can't just cherry pick the fixtures and competitions you want to have a winning mentality in, that seems entirely at odds with the term "winning mentality" as I see it.
The shocking performance in the League wasn't a result of prioritising Europa, we had blown the League long before that due to poor management, poor tactics, what seemed like zero technical training whatsoever...
In the absolute wildest of scenarios, if we went and won CL this season and Frank tried to claim that he sacked off the league in order to do it, would anyone believe him at all???
Still in 3 cups was the great mantra for a while, until Liverpool rolled us over in the League Cup Semi 2nd Leg, then we were still in 2 cups, until the following weekend where we were knocked out of the FA Cup too, the argument for keeping Ange at this point last season was as flimsy as it is for Frank, he just happened to be in an easier Euro competition.
But that's an assessment of the opposition we were facing isn't it, not managerial capability, so how was still being in Europa a valid argument for keeping Ange? We could surely have replaced him and still won it right?
You’d have thought so, but this season has proved things can always be worse. Plus, there is something to be said for momentum and continuity, but only if you think it’ll lead to something.
Momentum and continuity now will only lead to a low finish in the table and no European trophy.
You’re not daft, you know all this.