Manager Ange Postecoglou

[Airfixx]

Mate, the thing is we don't get to make that call.

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Kinda misses the point.... I was addressing the accusations of playing the hindsight 'card'.

We can bitch about it and that is far enough.

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I'm not sure why one should brush aside calm and reasonable critique as merely "bitching".

but I think we need to look at the season in totality.

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Before I comment, perhaps you can suggest how it should e considered in the context of the season as a whole...?

it is very possible that we play a full strength team last night and still get bundled out.

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Of course it is possible that we could still have lost....... But a stronger starting XI would have increased our odds of winning and when I read Ange's explanation of his fielding a fully fledged B-team it's pretty weak (IMO).

I get that people are venting and that's ok but for now we need to keep some perspective.

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There's nothing 'venty' about the post you replied to. Quite the opposite; it's pointing out that the sentiment of some alligns with that of calmer times that were NOT blessed with the gift of hindsight.

 

[spPadre24]

Jeez the wind changes direction hard in here, seems he his being held to a standard that even the most evangelical Angeophile would find hard to stand for, the first team looks dynamite in the League and the second team looks ordinary in the Carabao Cup 1 all losing on penalties. Maybe there shouldn't be a 2nd team but risking Bissouma, Maddison, Romero for every game is risky.

My own pro Ange take is he has told everyone where the club stands at the moment warts and all, got a team that can challenge if they keep all their stars on the field and one that will struggle if injuries and international duties weigh them down. I could never have imagined losing on pens in the Carabao Cup to a premier league team would cause this amount of angst, for sure a lesson on how passionate and volatile this season is going to be

 

[Airfixx]

Jeez the wind changes direction hard in here, seems he his being held to a standard that even the most evangelical Angeophile would find hard to stand for, the first team looks dynamite in the League and the second team looks ordinary in the Carabao Cup 1 all losing on penalties. Maybe there shouldn't be a 2nd team but risking Bissouma, Maddison, Romero for every game is risky.

My own pro Ange take is he has told everyone where the club stands at the moment warts and all, got a team that can challenge if they keep all their stars on the field and one that will struggle if injuries and international duties weigh them down. I could never have imagined losing on pens in the Carabao Cup to a premier league team would cause this amount of angst, for sure a lesson on how passionate and volatile this season is going to be

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Insisting on portraying everything as knee-jerky "angst" or bitching is extremely patronising given the way people are expressing their disappointment.

"got a team that can challenge if they keep all their stars on the field"

Can I ask; what specifically does challenge mean in that context.....? ....And when?

It's become quite a vague concept in recent weeks; used to mean different things & targets depending on who's saying it?

..........I ask because we've just exited the competion we were most likely to "challenge" (for a trophy) in the first game.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Before I comment, perhaps you can suggest how it should e considered in the context of the season as a whole...?

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Well, as an example lets say we win the FA Cup,, will people care about last night's loss then?

Or we win the league (unlikely but stranger things have happened)?

I guess my thinking is that each of us has a marker as to what an acceptable season looks like. For me it was a top 6-8 finish and a cup run. Or a top 4 finish if we don't go deep in either cup. The caveat to all of that being a style of football that is at least watchable. For others, that marker will be different.

There is a lot of football yet to be played and I think the overreaction by some (not directed at you) after one result is extraordinary. I get the criticism over team selection but the reaction to some of Ange's post match comments has been laughable. He is fully aware of his squad limitations and doesn't want to expose his best team to every match. Let's say he rotates a few for this game and a few for the Burnley game and we lose on the weekend too, well how palatable would that have been? Our best 13-14 players are good, the rest are pretty average. Add the fact that a lot of them have had very little game time and it puts a new manager in a tight position. We simply do not have a squad at this time that can compete on all fronts. So what is Ange to do? He needs to prioritise and frankly the Carabou Cup should have been and was the lowest of his priorities.

Like I said, I understand the criticism and even I would have liked the manager to play a somewhat stronger team. But I fully understand why he did not do that.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Insisting on portraying everything as knee-jerky "angst" or bitching is extremely patronising given the way people are expressing their disappointment.

"got a team that can challenge if they keep all their stars on the field"

Can I ask; what specifically does challenge mean in that context.....? ....And when?

It's become quite a vague concept in recent weeks; used to mean different things & targets depending on who's saying it?

..........I ask because we've just exited the competion we were most likely to "challenge" (for a trophy) in the first game.

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Possibly Ange thinks the best team we can put out is able to challenge for a better trophy than that? I am only guessing at this of course but I assume he will go much harder at the FA Cup and getting us back into Europe.

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

Possibly Ange thinks the best team we can put out is able to challenge for a better trophy than that?

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But that’s realistically 50% of our chance of winning something this year up in smoke before the end of August so, yeah, I do understand the disappointment of not the total histrionics.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

Insisting on portraying everything as knee-jerky "angst" or bitching is extremely patronising given the way people are expressing their disappointment.

"got a team that can challenge if they keep all their stars on the field"

Can I ask; what specifically does challenge mean in that context.....? ....And when?

It's become quite a vague concept in recent weeks; used to mean different things & targets depending on who's saying it?

..........I ask because we've just exited the competion we were most likely to "challenge" (for a trophy) in the first game.

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It means you're in a re-build to ultimately challenge for an EPL title and a place in the ECL. To do that a full squad is needed. Right now there isn't an ELEVEN, let alone a squad.

The fact that a trophy hasn't been had in 15 or so years is..... irrelevant in the context of a re-build.

 

[Brooklyn]

I choose to believe that Ange has a medium to long term vision of building a dynamic and cohesive team that will challenge for every competition they are in. Even fielding a team of mostly second-choice players, away, against a team of mostly first-choice players, we lost only on penalties (with second choice keeper).

We still haven't lost a match in regular time. Our first choice team looks silky smooth and tough as nails. Transfer window still open.

COYS

 

[Airfixx]

Well, as an example lets say we win the FA Cup,, will people care about last night's loss then?

Or we win the league (unlikely but stranger things have happened)?

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Which would we have stood the best chance of winning?

(Answer: The league cup)

I guess my thinking is that each of us has a marker as to what an acceptable season looks like. For me it was a top 6-8 finish and a cup run. Or a top 4 finish if we don't go deep in either cup. The cavet to all of that being a style of football that is at least watchable. For others, that marker will be different.

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Indeed that much is true and if anyone is re-framing their targets with the gift of hindsight then - for the purposes of this convo - balls to that/them.

There is a lot of football yet to be played and I think the overreaction by some (not directed at you) after one result is extraordinary. I get the criticism over team selection but the reaction to some of Ange's post match comments has been laughable. He is fully aware of his squad limitations and doesn't want to expose his best team to every match. Let's say he rotates a few for this game and a few for the Burnley game and we lose on the weekend too, well how palatable would that have been? Our best 13-14 players are good, the rest are pretty average. Add the fact that a lot of them have had very little game time and it puts a new manager in a tight position. We simply do not have a squad at this time that can compete on all fronts. So what is Ange to do? He needs to prioritise and frankly the Carabou Cup should have been and was the lowest of his priorities.

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Mate; we haven't even got Europe to contend with. In that respect he's got it easy.

The thing that eats me here is that a fair few of these players that are being said to be not worthy have actually showed themselves to be able to function within a coherent version our team (system)... We even finished the B'mouth game with a MF of Skipp, PEH & GLC (and Davies) so the ability to rotate in the right manner is there....... Yet we didn't even start with one of our 3 captains on the pitch nor any players who we could lean on to assert control (possesion or tempo - i.e. Maddison or Bissouma)... It felt like we put a lot on young VDVs shoulders too FWIW.

I could go on (Perisic being more impactful against tiring legs etc.), but whatever; I feel the man-for-man minutia of it all kinda waters down the point anyway.

 

[Airfixx]

It means you're in a re-build to ultimately challenge for an EPL title and a place in the ECL.

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In the space of one season; nay one trf window?

To do that a full squad is needed. Right now there isn't an ELEVEN, let alone a squad.

The fact that a trophy hasn't been had in 15 or so years is..... irrelevant in the context of a re-build.

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....All the while being in a cup competition is an excess hindrance to that process within the first 3 weeks of the season?

Considering we don't have Europe to juggle; could we not wait til fixture congestion arises before we start to legislate too heavily for it?

(Besides the person I initially asked said that we HAVE a team that could "challenge" if they can be kept on the pitch.)

 

[StripiestPilot]

I understand why Ange would pick the team he did, he wanted to see how these squad players could handle his style of football in a serious match. He’s paid a heavy price for it but now he has an answer.

There aren’t enough proper footballers in this squad. You can put 2 or 3 of the reserves in and get away with it but that’s it. Any more than that, especially away from home, and we will lose to absolutely anyone. As fans we already knew this but Ange is still trying to learn about the players. Let’s just hope that him and Levy react to what we saw.

 

[spPadre24]

Insisting on portraying everything as knee-jerky "angst" or bitching is extremely patronising given the way people are expressing their disappointment.

"got a team that can challenge if they keep all their stars on the field"

Can I ask; what specifically does challenge mean in that context.....? ....And when?

It's become quite a vague concept in recent weeks; used to mean different things & targets depending on who's saying it?

..........I ask because we've just exited the competion we were most likely to "challenge" (for a trophy) in the first game.

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Challenge in my mind means being in the Top 4 after Christmas with a CL finish tied up earlier rather than later and making the semi finals in the FA cup,

Losing in the first game of the Carabao on penalties is obviously a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of people who wanted it, It's eye opening as to what expectations are for the season.

 

[rusty]

for me many of you that are supporting the manager picks last night are avoiding the subs he made
the team started the same shape as normal, 4-3-3, yes PEH & Skipp can't turn and push forward with the ball, but it is the second 11
then at HT he takes off GLC (so maddison should come on , like for like) BUT no we go 2 CF's and no creater ? where does this come from ?
then he's next sub's do not bring a central creater,
for me he had pre-decided he didn't want to bring on maddison, yet he and GLC are like for like, so don't take GLC off take off Skipp for Sarr, if you want to change something

 

[rusty]

I understand why Ange would pick the team he did, he wanted to see how these squad players could handle his style of football in a serious match. He’s paid a heavy price for it but now he has an answer.

There aren’t enough proper footballers in this squad. You can put 2 or 3 of the reserves in and get away with it but that’s it. Any more than that, especially away from home, and we will lose to absolutely anyone. As fans we already knew this but Ange is still trying to learn about the players. Let’s just hope that him and Levy react to what we saw.

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but doesn't this show how managers are so detached from the fans "we know how poor these players are, because we have watched this game every season from the second 11" So why haven't the Manager or his coaches or the analstis watch the videos of last seasons second 11

 

[StripiestPilot]

but doesn't this show how managers are so detached from the fans "we know how poor these players are, because we have watched this game every season from the second 11" So why haven't the Manager or his coaches or the analstis watch the videos of last seasons second 11

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Last season we were playing a completely different style of football. It’s fair to want to see if these players can handle Ange-ball in a competitive match. He even gave Dane Scarlett a look despite having much better options on the bench.

 

[Zomb]

Which would we have stood the best chance of winning?

(Answer: The league cup)



Indeed that much is true and if anyone is re-framing their targets with the gift of hindsight then - for the purposes of this convo - balls to that/them.



Mate; we haven't even got Europe to contend with. In that respect he's got it easy.

The thing that eats me here is that a fair few of these players that are being said to be not worthy have actually showed themselves to be able to function within a coherent version our team (system)... We even finished the B'mouth game with a MF of Skipp, PEH & GLC (and Davies) so the ability to rotate in the right manner is there....... Yet we didn't even start with one of our 3 captains on the pitch nor any players who we could lean on to assert control (possesion or tempo - i.e. Maddison or Bissouma)... It felt like we put a lot on young VDVs shoulders too FWIW.

I could go on (Perisic being more impactful against tiring legs etc.), but whatever; I feel the man-for-man minutia of it all kinda waters down the point anyway.

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Do you have a point to make amidst this rambling diatribe? No-one is reading that pal

 

[rusty]

Last season we were playing a completely different style of football. It’s fair to want to see if these players can handle Ange-ball in a competitive match. He even gave Dane Scarlett a look despite having much better options on the bench.

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Dane Scarlett is a CF, not part of 2 up front, so where has he given him a chance ? its not a chance being played out of position ?
take richie off play Scarlett, yes I see that because that is his position, but not as 2 up front or as the playmakers as he was on for GLC

 

[GOAT]

Do you have a point to make amidst this rambling diatribe? No-one is reading that palm

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I read it.

 

[N17-Tommo]

It's hard to hide the disappointment of his actions last night.
After an unbelievable start, and with the entire club and fans on his side, he's back to earth with a bump.
After telling us he loves winning and doesn't care what competition it is, he then picks a team that had every chance of getting knocked out at the first hurdle.
All the early positivity shot down overnight.

If you want to experiment, do it gradually not all at once and risk getting knocked out of one of the two cups we are in. .
9 changes is madness and showed massive naivety.
If we had to juggle this and Europe, you could kind of understand it but with no Europe it's unacceptable.
We are only playing one game a week and had 4 days rest before our next game, so no excuses as far as I am concerned.

Love what you're doing overall Ange, but last night was a big black mark I'm afraid.

 

[Starks]

So why haven't the Manager or his coaches or the analstis watch the videos of last seasons second 11

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Because if you based your opinion on videos from last season you don't get to watch Bissouma week in week out this season.