You lose 100m then you get 100m. try and work out the net of that sum.
So Ange inherited a team that finished 8th then took them to 5th, whilst Howe took his team that finished in 4th, spent 106m and then finished 7th.
FYP
Mate.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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You lose 100m then you get 100m. try and work out the net of that sum.
So Ange inherited a team that finished 8th then took them to 5th, whilst Howe took his team that finished in 4th, spent 106m and then finished 7th.
FYP
Mate.
The point is really simple. Ange had assets when he took over, Howe didn’t. Ange had a 100m player who was sold to give him 100m net to play with. He had Son who got him 16 goals 10 assists in the league last season. Romero who starts for Argentina. Etc. Howe took over a much, MUCH weaker side. It’s not even a comparable situation.
Finishing 4th was a pie in the sky over accomplishment for Howe. It was insanely ahead of schedule for them as a club. You don’t get to use it as a stick to beat him with. They had an injury crisis and, unlike us, their squaddies are barely Prem quality at all.
He’s finishing above a guy who inherited relegation battlers, got them over achieving, had an injury crisis + Europe and therefore dropped a bit. Squad wise our depth and quality throughout the team is so far above Newcastle. From their lineup the other day you take Guimaraes, Gordon, Isak and that’s it. Ange has way more to play with. He has a backline of top level internationals vs a backline of a bottom 4 club.
Most of Howe’s spend last summer went on a player who got a gambling ban FFS. Finishing ahead of the absolute state that was the N’castle team for most of last season isn’t even close to an accomplishment.
bus-conductor
3 points to add to Ange vs Howe debate:
1. We could also consider which style of play has a higher ceiling, rather than just who has done better with their resources so far. Imo Ange's style of play has a higher ceiling, it's just a case of getting it to click.
2. Ange needs more time before sample size is big enough for direct comparison to be made. Last season both clubs suffered a sustained injury crisis.
3. Net spend doesn't just reflect the quality of players transferred, but also the negotiating abilities of executives at the club. Imo we overpaid for Johnson and Solanke but got VdV for a bargain. Perhaps instead of using net spend comparisons between Ange and Howe, it makes more sense to use the current market values of the players transferred/ the squad as a whole.
Fair post, and I don't want to repeat myself but-
Ange's style of play is inherently more risky but has a higher ceiling than Howe's as his teams have more control over games. Ange's style needs elite players, Howe is slightly more pragmatic and certainly better suited to a mediocre squad.
This is what makes our poor transfer window even more frustrating.
3 points to add to Ange vs Howe debate:
1. We could also consider which style of play has a higher ceiling, rather than just who has done better with their resources so far. Imo Ange's style of play has a higher ceiling, it's just a case of getting it to click.
2. Ange needs more time before sample size is big enough for direct comparison to be made. Last season both clubs suffered a sustained injury crisis.
3. Net spend doesn't just reflect the quality of players transferred, but also the negotiating abilities of executives at the club. Imo we overpaid for Johnson and Solanke but got VdV for a bargain. Perhaps instead of using net spend comparisons between Ange and Howe, it makes more sense to use the current market values of the players transferred/ the squad as a whole.
It's all a nonsense straw man argument anyway. I didn't say which manager was better, or one is good one is shit, I merely pointed out that in finishing above people like Howe/Newcastle and Poch/Chelsea last season, at least demonstrated Ange isn't "out of his depth" in this league. That was it.
I think I insulted
Deuterz
's "how dare I suggest an Aussie could to better than an Englishman" honour and he felt duty bound to climb the hill and die on it.
It's all a nonsense straw man argument anyway. I didn't say which manager was better, or one is good one is shit, I merely pointed out that in finishing above people like Howe/Newcastle and Poch/Chelsea last season, at least demonstrated Ange isn't "out of his depth" in this league. That was it.
I think I insulted
He finished above a coach who got sacked for underperformance and above a coach who had the squad depth of a relegation threatened team and an injury crisis. Whose big summer signing got banned for the season.
Newcastle were disappointing last season for various reasons. Neither of these coaches had a good season at either club.
Ange had a better season than Howe. Or is 7th higher than 5th if you divide 100m by PPG and x it by Australian?
He's said this a lot (and fair dues for doing so) but it rings pretty thin when the results and performances leave so much to be desired. I'd rather he took more decisive action and benched players not performing (Romero, Maddison) to shake things up a bit.
Shame we don't have the same "luxury" on the wings where (arguably) our biggest problems are.
He had a better season if you think Spurs and Newcastle are the same. Which we aren’t, as squad value clearly shows. I’d love to see where Ange finishes with Burn, Murphy, Krafth, Dubravka and Longstaff in an XI. Go on, make me laugh again by throwing out names of full internationals for top countries and pretending they’re comparable.
6 point gap in the end. Considering Howe contended with European football, got to two quarter finals and had to deal with the shell of a relegation threatened squad .. I’d say good job.
Didgeridoos out anyway though I guess.
Discussion aside, be good to see less of these gormless ad hominems about didgeridoos, boomerang-chucking, etc.
If you don't know anything about Australian culture (esp indigenous traditions), keep your stupid comments to yourself.
How do we know that? It's been the same for week after week after week....no sign of any flexibility.....because he can't!!!
Touchy.....!
Risking the usual Woke Brigade crap, yes. I'm a first-gen Aussie who works with a lot of indigenous students and staff. I don't like what I'm seeing on the footy pitch either, but this sort of stuff really irks me.
Mugs game spending time on the Internet if I'm ticked off by dumb comments, to be fair
Ange Postecoglou: Coach Watch - Coaches' Voice
Ange Postecoglou was named Tottenham manager in June 2023. We assess his tactical approach with Australia and in two brilliant years at Celtic
www.coachesvoice.com
Well we Brits also get it so I know where you're coming from....but this TFC...nothing is sacred.Risking the usual Woke Brigade crap, yes. I'm a first-gen Aussie who works with a lot of indigenous students and staff. I don't like what I'm seeing on the footy pitch either, but this sort of stuff really irks me.
Mugs game spending time on the Internet if I'm ticked off by dumb comments, to be fair
Celtic....hahahaha....Ange Postecoglou: Coach Watch - Coaches' Voice
Ange Postecoglou was named Tottenham manager in June 2023. We assess his tactical approach with Australia and in two brilliant years at Celtic
You said he doesn't know how to play anything else..he clearly does
Anyway Celtic is sitting second in the Champions League table behind Kane's Bayern.
I watched the game a few times now between yesterday and today.
It was upsetting to struggle so much against Coventry but I’m not as mad about Anges plan other than it’s obvious how weak we are in attack- I don’t think Werner and Johnson are good enough to be allowed free, un-coached roles on the outside.
Other than that we just generally lack enough talent to break down a packed box, and we aren’t appearing to receive plan B instruction on what to do about it.
Dragusin was great. Spence was great. Bergvall promising. Gray very solid. Solanke even looked good I thought. Our wingers and discombobulated CAM play let us down consistently. Johnson had the goal but really didn’t seem to do much before Maddison and Kulusevski got into the game- it’s clear he is at his best with creators around to provide him balls to run onto.
The Coventry wingers looked pretty good I thought- certainly much better than Werner and Johnson. If we had just bought them instead of shelling out for Werner’s wages I bet we’d be doing much better overall this season.
We’re going through a rough time guys. Keep the faith that we’ll at least start scoring more goals.
It was upsetting to struggle so much against Coventry but I’m not as mad about Anges plan other than it’s obvious how weak we are in attack- I don’t think Werner and Johnson are good enough to be allowed free, un-coached roles on the outside.
Other than that we just generally lack enough talent to break down a packed box, and we aren’t appearing to receive plan B instruction on what to do about it.
Dragusin was great. Spence was great. Bergvall promising. Gray very solid. Solanke even looked good I thought. Our wingers and discombobulated CAM play let us down consistently. Johnson had the goal but really didn’t seem to do much before Maddison and Kulusevski got into the game- it’s clear he is at his best with creators around to provide him balls to run onto.
The Coventry wingers looked pretty good I thought- certainly much better than Werner and Johnson. If we had just bought them instead of shelling out for Werner’s wages I bet we’d be doing much better overall this season.
We’re going through a rough time guys. Keep the faith that we’ll at least start scoring more goals.