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Management Ange Postecoglou

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skywalker68 said:
Our squad is nowhere near Chelsea, villa are better organised.
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Have you watched Villa much the last 2 seasons?

Did you see the 2 goals they conceded vs Everton? Ipswich?

You realise they conceded exactly the same amount of goals as us last season right?

In what way, specifically are they more organised and what metric are you using to measure that?

So far this season they have played relatively easy fixtures against Leicester, Everton, Wolves, Ipswich and a struggling West Ham. They got spanked 2-0 by Woolwich and couldn't muster a goal against, what we are being told in here, is the worst Man U side that has ever existed.
 
FOK said:
Surely the Europa is much more achievable?

It doesn’t have city arse Chelsea Liverpool villa etc in it
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I think to win the Europa you have to be able to defend well and have a bit of managerial savvy , which sadly rules us out.
But in the domestic cups if we get lucky home draws and they play weakened teams ,we might get lucky:
 
erlee said:
Angeball - never liked it -entertainment or not. Give me solid steady football any day over kamikazee crazy football
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Like Mourinho, Nuno and Conte?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any available managers that could improve the team apart from maybe Tuchel? That's if he's not waiting on the Man Utd job.
 
The thing for me is, Spurs under Ange is just giving 90s vibes again, and it scares me. Attacking football but so defensively naive and no resilience at all. Something we did have under Harry, Poch, Jose, and Conte despite the moans.

Those dark days where we used to be midtable. We would see games like yesterday all the time, where no lead was ever safe. We would see calamitous defending every week. We've got progressively worse since Poch lost the plot about 18 months before he was sacked. Mourinho and Conte briefly stabilised us and we returned to CL football before the wheels came off. But so many other clubs have got their act together now it will be hard to get back up there if we are not careful. You simply have to be a bit more pragmatic in the league these days. Look at Woolwich, the likes of Villa, Liverpool. They are robust. City are actually quite frail at the moment, but they have such attacking riches it doesn't matter.

We do not have the attacking riches to be able to play teams like Woolwich off the park. To win games in this league consistently you need to be defensively outstanding first and foremost. Get that right, and then let your attackers win the points.

Based on the last 35 games, we look like we are truly a midtable side.

No way Levy keeps Ange if we finish 9th or 10th. I doubt he will survive if we finish 8th. For all the talk of projects by the fans, he isn't going to want to see us winning and losing 15 games a season which we are on course for.

Some Spurs fans, and I don't blame them for this, are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think Ange, a bloke who has never managed anywhere other than backwater leagues, is going to come in and rip the PL up by playing this type of football.

The comparison with Bielsa couldn't be more accurate for me. It's idealistic naive football. Some days it will work well, United away. But then you will equally get days like Brighton. It simply will not bring success.

Get rid sooner rather than later please. This experiment is done, and the longer we give it, the more time we waste. His game management is a sackable offence alone.

It's not all bad with Ange. I like the way he is integrating the younger players, and I like how he has the team playing football in terms of style at times (not defensively), but simply won't win enough football games with this guy, he simply is not elite and we need elite, and that's the long and short of it.
 
FOK said:
Surely the Europa is much more achievable?

It doesn’t have city arse Chelsea Liverpool villa etc in it
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I'm not sure anything can be won as we are. Looking at the Brighton game and I'm not the only one because a few folk said it...at 0-2 and the pundits saying how rare it was teams come back I feel like Brighton 'knew'. We don't change so there was a chance. Had this been Liverpool or Woolwich or us under Pochettino ( prime) Brighton huff and puff for a few post second half mins then lie down and bite the pillow. Anges use of comms has firmly set the a narrative thats become unhelpful. We don't kill games we just keep doing the same thing, whatever the game state, and everyone is fully aware. Even that wretched United team came within inches of getting back in the game. I don't think that wins anything.
 
Aphex said:
The thing for me is, Spurs under Ange is just giving 90s vibes again, and it scares me. Attacking football but so defensively naive and no resilience at all. Something we did have under Harry, Poch, Jose, and Conte despite the moans.

Those dark days where we used to be midtable. We would see games like yesterday all the time, where no lead was ever safe. We would see calamitous defending every week. We've got progressively worse since Poch lost the plot about 18 months before he was sacked. Mourinho and Conte briefly stabilised us and we returned to CL football before the wheels came off. But so many other clubs have got their act together now it will be hard to get back up there if we are not careful. You simply have to be a bit more pragmatic in the league these days. Look at Woolwich, the likes of Villa, Liverpool. They are robust. City are actually quite frail at the moment, but they have such attacking riches it doesn't matter.

We do not have the attacking riches to be able to play teams like Woolwich off the park. To win games in this league consistently you need to be defensively outstanding first and foremost. Get that right, and then let your attackers win the points.

Based on the last 35 games, we look like we are truly a midtable side.

No way Levy keeps Ange if we finish 9th or 10th. I doubt he will survive if we finish 8th. For all the talk of projects by the fans, he isn't going to want to see us winning and losing 15 games a season which we are on course for.

Some Spurs fans, and I don't blame them for this, are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think Ange, a bloke who has never managed anywhere other than backwater leagues, is going to come in and rip the PL up by playing this type of football.

The comparison with Bielsa couldn't be more accurate for me. It's idealistic naive football. Some days it will work well, United away. But then you will equally get days like Brighton. It simply will not bring success.

Get rid sooner rather than later please. This experiment is done, and the longer we give it, the more time we waste. His game management is a sackable offence alone.

It's not all bad with Ange. I like the way he is integrating the younger players, and I like how he has the team playing football in terms of style at times (not defensively), but simply won't win enough football games with this guy, he simply is not elite and we need elite, and that's the long and short of it.
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In what ways were we defensively naive vs Brighton?

Far as I could tell our defensive shape was sound but individual errors cost us.

If anything he was naive in his subs but i didn't see a huge amount wrong with our defensive positions or setup.
 
dudu said:
Have you watched Villa much the last 2 seasons?

Did you see the 2 goals they conceded vs Everton? Ipswich?

You realise they conceded exactly the same amount of goals as us last season right?

In what way, specifically are they more organised and what metric are you using to measure that?

So far this season they have played relatively easy fixtures against Leicester, Everton, Wolves, Ipswich and a struggling West Ham. They got spanked 2-0 by Woolwich and couldn't muster a goal against, what we are being told in here, is the worst Man U side that has ever existed.
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OK
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
I'm not sure anything can be won as we are. Looking at the Brighton game and I'm not the only one because a few folk said it...at 0-2 and the pundits saying how rare it was teams come back I feel like Brighton 'knew'. We don't change so there was a chance. Had this been Liverpool or Woolwich or us under Pochettino ( prime) Brighton huff and puff for a few post second half mins then lie down and bite the pillow. Anges use of comms has firmly set the a narrative thats become unhelpful. We don't kill games we just keep doing the same thing, whatever the game state, and everyone is fully aware. Even that wretched United team cane within inches of getting back in tge game. I don't think that wins anything.
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We killed the United game, Everton game, Brentford games this season did we not?
 
Bielsa comparisons are fair. If he doesn't adapt or be more proactive going forward we will continue to lose games like this. We will hammer some teams along the way too but thats the very definition of an average side which we very much are.

As much as I cant stand him Klopp adapted and addressed the problems he had at Liverpool in the first year or two. When he really started getting Liverpool to click they were able to change from the 'heavy metal' pressing into a more controlled team when they were more defensively sound and they always had two midfielders like Henderson and Winjaldum to cover and break up counters and control safe possession when needed. He bought the players that they required and adapted to the premier league.
I cannot see Ange doing something like this.

We were pretty much to a man crying out for a world class no 6 all summer in here (as we know we will never have a double pivot) and we bought two teenagers and sold Hojberg and Skipp. We continue to push both fbs up the pitch even against rubbish sides when we shouldn't need to.
I would love Ange to succeed and think he should finish this season at least and reassess then but if he is not going to change it up when he needs to theres only one way this goes.
We will never win a title playing this way with him and as soon as we come up against a clever side in the cups they are favourites too so I can't see where the success will come from atm.
 
dudu said:
I asked you 4 questions based on your assessment of Villa and how well organised they are and your answer is OK?

Kinda get the feeling that you said something you have no idea about.
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Look mate, you seem a decent chap, but you are very entrenched in your view that nothing is wrong ever.
So I will have to leave it there, I know what I'm seeing and it isn't great, all the best 👍
 
skywalker68 said:
Look mate, you seem a decent chap, but you are very entrenched in your view that nothing is wrong ever.
So I will have to leave it there, I know what I'm seeing and it isn't great, all the best 👍
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Thanks, mate - thought i'm entrenched in my view on Villa because I watch them a lot and see that they are really not that well organised at the back.

I don't see us being less organised than them at the back, though I do rate Emery as a coach and think he does great work.
 
Hulk said:
Bielsa comparisons are fair. If he doesn't adapt or be more proactive going forward we will continue to lose games like this. We will hammer some teams along the way too but thats the very definition of an average side which we very much are.

As much as I cant stand him Klopp adapted and addressed the problems he had at Liverpool in the first year or two. When he really started getting Liverpool to click they were able to change from the 'heavy metal' pressing into a more controlled team when they were more defensively sound and they always had two midfielders like Henderson and Winjaldum to cover and break up counters and control safe possession when needed. He bought the players that they required and adapted to the premier league.
I cannot see Ange doing something like this.

We were pretty much to a man crying out for a world class no 6 all summer in here (as we know we will never have a double pivot) and we bought two teenagers and sold Hojberg and Skipp. We continue to push both fbs up the pitch even against rubbish sides when we shouldn't need to.
I would love Ange to succeed and think he should finish this season at least and reassess then but if he is not going to change it up when he needs to theres only one way this goes.
We will never win a title playing this way with him and as soon as we come up against a clever side in the cups they are favourites too so I can't see where the success will come from atm.
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I think he is looking for fairytale football, it isn't happening but he will continue trying and, those results like Brighton will continue to happen.
It's all too chaotic, we have gone from ultra defensive to, you go forwards and shoot or score and then it's our turn it's not sustainable.
 
Aphex said:
The thing for me is, Spurs under Ange is just giving 90s vibes again, and it scares me. Attacking football but so defensively naive and no resilience at all. Something we did have under Harry, Poch, Jose, and Conte despite the moans.

Those dark days where we used to be midtable. We would see games like yesterday all the time, where no lead was ever safe. We would see calamitous defending every week. We've got progressively worse since Poch lost the plot about 18 months before he was sacked. Mourinho and Conte briefly stabilised us and we returned to CL football before the wheels came off. But so many other clubs have got their act together now it will be hard to get back up there if we are not careful. You simply have to be a bit more pragmatic in the league these days. Look at Woolwich, the likes of Villa, Liverpool. They are robust. City are actually quite frail at the moment, but they have such attacking riches it doesn't matter.

We do not have the attacking riches to be able to play teams like Woolwich off the park. To win games in this league consistently you need to be defensively outstanding first and foremost. Get that right, and then let your attackers win the points.

Based on the last 35 games, we look like we are truly a midtable side.

No way Levy keeps Ange if we finish 9th or 10th. I doubt he will survive if we finish 8th. For all the talk of projects by the fans, he isn't going to want to see us winning and losing 15 games a season which we are on course for.

Some Spurs fans, and I don't blame them for this, are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think Ange, a bloke who has never managed anywhere other than backwater leagues, is going to come in and rip the PL up by playing this type of football.

The comparison with Bielsa couldn't be more accurate for me. It's idealistic naive football. Some days it will work well, United away. But then you will equally get days like Brighton. It simply will not bring success.

Get rid sooner rather than later please. This experiment is done, and the longer we give it, the more time we waste. His game management is a sackable offence alone.

It's not all bad with Ange. I like the way he is integrating the younger players, and I like how he has the team playing football in terms of style at times (not defensively), but simply won't win enough football games with this guy, he simply is not elite and we need elite, and that's the long and short of it.
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This is such a good point, sleepwalking into midtable mediocrity under an out of his depth manager is truly scary, especially given the vast disparity in infrastructure and wealth between then and now.

I think what makes it even scarier is the stadium means there will always be revenue and profit to be had along with all the other side businesses to mean that finishing in mid table with the odd sustained race for top 4 every 4/5 years will be enough to keep the money rolling in which would have been unthinkable given the progress under Jol, Harry and then Poch.

No serious players will want to join, serious players already here will want to leave, all the while excuses will seemingly be made ad nauseam about how the "project" needs just a couple more windows of untested teenagers and mid table players for the corner to finally be turned.
 
Aphex said:
The thing for me is, Spurs under Ange is just giving 90s vibes again, and it scares me. Attacking football but so defensively naive and no resilience at all. Something we did have under Harry, Poch, Jose, and Conte despite the moans.

Those dark days where we used to be midtable. We would see games like yesterday all the time, where no lead was ever safe. We would see calamitous defending every week. We've got progressively worse since Poch lost the plot about 18 months before he was sacked. Mourinho and Conte briefly stabilised us and we returned to CL football before the wheels came off. But so many other clubs have got their act together now it will be hard to get back up there if we are not careful. You simply have to be a bit more pragmatic in the league these days. Look at Woolwich, the likes of Villa, Liverpool. They are robust. City are actually quite frail at the moment, but they have such attacking riches it doesn't matter.

We do not have the attacking riches to be able to play teams like Woolwich off the park. To win games in this league consistently you need to be defensively outstanding first and foremost. Get that right, and then let your attackers win the points.

Based on the last 35 games, we look like we are truly a midtable side.

No way Levy keeps Ange if we finish 9th or 10th. I doubt he will survive if we finish 8th. For all the talk of projects by the fans, he isn't going to want to see us winning and losing 15 games a season which we are on course for.

Some Spurs fans, and I don't blame them for this, are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think Ange, a bloke who has never managed anywhere other than backwater leagues, is going to come in and rip the PL up by playing this type of football.

The comparison with Bielsa couldn't be more accurate for me. It's idealistic naive football. Some days it will work well, United away. But then you will equally get days like Brighton. It simply will not bring success.

Get rid sooner rather than later please. This experiment is done, and the longer we give it, the more time we waste. His game management is a sackable offence alone.

It's not all bad with Ange. I like the way he is integrating the younger players, and I like how he has the team playing football in terms of style at times (not defensively), but simply won't win enough football games with this guy, he simply is not elite and we need elite, and that's the long and short of it.
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footballs always been about balance, unless you are the very best team in the world...even the great barca 10-15 years ago and city now have not dominated as they should have because teams have swallowed their pride and played them the only way they can to get a result. mourinho had etoo at FB to get the job done against barca back in the day, the great madrid swallowed their pride last year to get the job done against city as they knew they would get bashed up going toe to toe. theirs as much glory in winning games like that as there is destroying a team 5-0, if anything its more of an achievement as it shows nous.

city and barca dominated domestically, barca had the best team ever and for messi,xavi and iniesta to only win 4 CL is a poor return considering how good they were. city to win 1 with pep over 7-8 years whatever it is is also a very poor return.
 
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Thing is i dont understand is the thinking its this style of football or back to Nuno, Mourinho and Conte bore fests. There is a chasm between Ange, Ardiles, Bielsa football and boring everyone to death. We mostly played great attacking football under Redknapp and Poch (until the last few months) . Those of us old enough were lucky to watch Burkinshaws 80s team who combined great football with trophies. More recently in the prem managers like Klopp played attacking, winning football but all those mentioned never neglected the defensive side and all knew you cant just win matches one way. Sometimes you have to switch to game management or just grind out a result on occasions.

You cant just keep losing games, 8 from 14 in the league now and just carry on, business as usual. I know we're all willing it to turn but at some point you just realise this is it. We have 4 very winnable games after the break and i think we need minimum 10 pts to show there may be some consistancy and possible progress.
 
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