Possibly, I worry the damage is done now though.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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The excessive injuries and the regular mistakes are a key side effect of Ange's methods, it's obvious. It's similar in the way that Mourinho and to an extent Conte's counter attacking tactics put huge pressure on the CBs, causing more mistakes.
But he does not care for that.
Nor does he care for keeping more clean sheets (he has specifically admitted it)
Nor does he care for more focused look on dead-ball situations.
Nor does he care for actually giving instructions and feedback from touchlines (cause he says that "you can't take your teacher to exam")
But things he cares about (from recent interviews) - entertainment.
Well neutrals might be entertained, but this is results business and we should have manager that is willing to do ANYTHING to win. And instill same approach to our players. Right now we have some idealistic wannabe philosopher there with piss-poor results.
Nope. It's a sign that the multiple use arena is fully operational and they don't need to care about the football team anymore.
I'm telling you, there's more chance the word Hotspur gets dropped from the stadium name now than anything big and positive for the team.
Drop Hotspur and the link to the team and you widen your non football audience.
Watch it happen.
And watch the pro enic cunts defend it as clever.
All of it. You're asking to perform Olympic level sprints with no notice.
Let's be serious, we're not in those cups. Not in any more of a sense that we're "in the league" for anything more than numbers.
That's fine. Levy is the biggest problem. We know that.
But it doesn't absolve the useless prick ruining the football team on a day to day basis.
Thank you for your explanation.
The term 'narrow defeat' has the possibility of being interpreted in different ways. The 'bare fact' of us losing by one goal might suggest, to anyone who wasn't there, that it was a narrow defeat, but anyone who was there knows that, apart from the first 15 minutes, when we blew them aside, they were much the better team and it wasn't a narrow defeat at all - in fact our 3rd goal disguised the gulf between us & them.
At half time I predicted them to win 4-2 - that's how it felt - and it felt inevitable that they would win. It was no surprise when 'It happened again' as their cunting supporters kept singing.
Your explanation starts by agreeing that Chelsea were the better team, but then, in paragraph 2, you seem to sort of double down on it being a close game, which it wasn't - that part of you is still talking bollocks. I agree you haven't 'said' it - but you've definitely implied it strongly - and it's utter shit (despite the scoreline, which was flattering to us).
oh come the fuck on, mate.
You cannot seriously compare 38 yo who has been a manager 5 years to a 60 yo surely?
It is like saying that it would be a same thing signing a 19 yo player who has scored 10 goals as signing a striker who is 34 and has done the same. With first you could reasonably expect him to keep progressing and learning the trade. 2nd one is close to retiring and hanging up the boots.
P.S So far Kompany has crashed out of German cup and has 3 wins + 2 defeats in CL which is not good enough for them. Yes, they lead the Bundesliga, but that was absolutely expected - last season was a freak event and before that they had like 10 titles in a row.
who can stay fit under this style/football regime? its chaotic and goes 100mph
leave ange ball to ange -so he can implement this shit in Scotland with Ayr, Stenhousemuir or KIlmarnock
Now I can say it with zero doubt in my mind. I was pessimistic and worried before but the penny has dropped - SACK ANGE NOW. He is absolutely finished and will be gone soon anyway, right now we could still do something with the season if we actually switch to system that suits our players.
First of all - it has been going downhill since the 11th game last season.
Ange whole spell PPG - 1,63
Ange spell since 11th round - 1,4
Last 19 games (half season) rolling ppg - 1,37
Last 10 games ppg -1,3
Second point - he knows he is soon to be sacked from his biggest career chance in his career. And in order to save his skin he was very willing to sacrifice TWO first choice CBs in a game that came too soon. That is pathetic cowardness and hinders long term outlook. Also 100% countradicts what he is mumbling in presser (about not trying to save his skin).
Third point - he has absolutely lost the touch with reality, possibly thinking he is twice the coach he really is. He blames "two stupid mistakes" that cost penalties, but does not grasp what leads to this. We were under IMMENSE PRESSURE from the start of 2nd half. Everyone were running their hearts out cause opposition manager once again totally overplayed our one for the 2nd half. It was total desperation throughout the 2nd half. Of course in such situation brainfarts will come. It is built into such system on such level.
It is done for good and there is absolutely no coming back from it.
First of all - it has been going downhill since the 11th game last season.
Ange whole spell PPG - 1,63
Ange spell since 11th round - 1,4
Last 19 games (half season) rolling ppg - 1,37
Last 10 games ppg -1,3
Second point - he knows he is soon to be sacked from his biggest career chance in his career. And in order to save his skin he was very willing to sacrifice TWO first choice CBs in a game that came too soon. That is pathetic cowardness and hinders long term outlook. Also 100% countradicts what he is mumbling in presser (about not trying to save his skin).
Third point - he has absolutely lost the touch with reality, possibly thinking he is twice the coach he really is. He blames "two stupid mistakes" that cost penalties, but does not grasp what leads to this. We were under IMMENSE PRESSURE from the start of 2nd half. Everyone were running their hearts out cause opposition manager once again totally overplayed our one for the 2nd half. It was total desperation throughout the 2nd half. Of course in such situation brainfarts will come. It is built into such system on such level.
It is done for good and there is absolutely no coming back from it.
he is persisting..
he tried that last season with mixed success..he DOUBLED DOWN this season.
He even risked the 2 CBs for one last hurrrah with chavs?
Now that the CBs crashed burnt - so has his season. Risky - everything is damn chaotic with ange and his anger ball.
I know that the comparison was far from perfect, as I acknowledged in my initial post.I made couple of empirically unverifiable assumptions, all flattering Ange and overstating the case that can be made for him. I'm aware that it's a futile thought experiment as Ange will probably never manage a club close to that level. The point I was making was at the very end. Maybe you missed it. The post was far from a praise for Ange, or the job he has been doing here.
But as a more general point, a distinction can be made between managers as floor raisers and ceiling raisers. Floor raisers are the ones who excel at uplifting teams from the ground. They create compact, hard-nosed, neat and tidy teams where the whole is bigger than the sum of its parts. They're not necessarily park the bus merchants who get a joy out of making the game as hideous as possible. They can play an appealing brand of football under specific circumstances. But their goal is to make the most out of their limited resources. Guys like Nuno and Moyes made a career out of this. It's certainly a skill.
Ceiling raisers, by contrast, tend to excel at situations where they have an abundance of resources at their disposal. They have no problem building up attacking, free-flowing, dominant teams that comfortably overpower their opposition. They make serial winners. This is a skill as well. Not everybody is up to it. Some fail miserably when trying to take that step upwards.
Now, these two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Ancelotti was a floor raiser managing Everton. Year later, he went back to being a ceiling raiser with Madrid. Some managers make that transition quite smoothly. Some, like Nuno and Moyes I mentioned above, can't make it. They had to go back to where they're most comfortable at.
Coming to Ange, I see him close to a ceiling raiser. That's what he did with Celtic. That's what he may be capable of doing with top teams. We may never know. My point is that, even if Ange turns out to be a ceiling raiser, it's irrelevant for us. The way this club operates necessitates a floor raiser. In other words, what Pochettino did in his tenure. It doesn't have to be him, but it has to be someone cast in the same mold.
Being a good floor raiser is not a prerequisite for being a good ceiling raiser. A good ceiling raiser is not guaranteed to be a good floor raiser just because he did well at a 'higher' level. These are two different situations. With different expectations, requirements and circumstances. They're not directly comparable. How well or poorly a manager performs in one of those roles is not indicative of how he will do in the other.
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I mean, if you're adamant about being positive you could justify any loss with the old "if only we'd scored more and conceded less" argument...
On some level, the system does play into the players and their flaws.
For example: Our passing boxes are quite large compared to other teams that are high possession. This makes it easier for other teams to break our passing patterns and that causes the players to hesitate when passing the ball. Which either leads to passing backwards to the backline and recycling possession, or to a mistake which give the ball away.
Exactly, I am sure you could list plenty of other near misses for other teams. The difference is they don't list them as accolades
His pace should be a "break glass in case of emergency" asset, not a feature of our set up.
Ange rushed back both centre backs yesterday in a desperate attempt to save his own skin, now who knows how long extra they will be unavailable for, and we're down to Dragusin and Gray for the other two games this week. Maybe he'll rush Davies back next???
Ange's tactical naivety really strikes you when you're at matches. At the Roma game I could barely believe he didn't do something about our narrow FBs (esp Gray) being doubled on by their wingers. He didn't. Cost us a win.
Why do people keep throwing Poch into this list?
Do people forget that Poch took us from the Sherwood/AVB doldrums to multiple 2nd-3rd place finishes, established us as a top 4 stalwart, had us finishing on 86 (EIGHTY SIX) points, and a CL final, all with basically a zero net spend for 5 years??
How is that in any way comparable to Ange, or Mou, or Conte?
Surely if anything the experience of Poch (or Redknapp, or Jol) is you CAN drastically improve results just by changing the manager. I'm sure there were plenty of people saying when we sacked AVB, "Oh what's the point, things will never change under this chairman, this is our level, we're cursed, yap yap yap".
Actually there weren't because it was fucking obvious AVB was a busted flush. Just like it should be obvious Ange is one too, but for some reason he has half this fanbase by the balls like no cult I've ever seen before, it's quite remarkable.
Anyway, 24 months after sacking Sherwood we're in a title race. Having spent no money. And there are plenty examples of this all throughout football, where a managerial change can spur huge improvements on the pitch. Take a look at Gerrard to Emery at Villa for one. Or Steve Bruce to Eddie Howe. Or Gary o Neil to Iraola. Or whoever the fuck was in charge of Ipswich before McKenna took them up two divisions.
Yes it went wrong eventually under Poch - 99% of managerial appointments do, in the end. Wenger and Klopp did too - does that mean the Goons and Dortmund/Liverpool were wrong to hire them in the first place?
For the record, I don't disagree that Levy is also an issue. He's a real estate developer, not a football chairman. But he's not going anywhere, so I see no point in wasting my breath. It's like yelling at clouds.
And really, which of the other chairmen in the league would you even take? They're all cunts; either oil-money despots or yank private equity wankers. Or worse—some genuine moron like Moshiri who takes the club from top 6 competitors to relegation fights. For all Levy's flaws at least he's not done that.
And it's not like we have any control over who would replace him. Look at United—they finally got rid of the Glazers and are now lumped with Jim Ratcliffe and his band of idiots. Another 200m blown in the summer and they're already sacking the DOF. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
It's funny you mention Sherwood, because the more and more we are subjected to Ange, the more and more he seems like an Aussie copy of Sherwood.
Big ideas about attacking football, absolutely no clue how to implement it at this level.
Main difference is that Sherwood was better at it, because under him we were pretty consistent in beating the sides beneath us.
Everything with Postecoglou seems to be high risk, which, to state the obvious is fraught with danger.
It is also quite clear for those who equate an excess of goals to their level of excitement, that many (or a few) buy into Postecoglou's methods.
As mentioned and exactly right, you want a player like Van Der Ven to use his exceptional pace infrequently and when that is not the case, you are risking his main asset but you are also exposing the fragility of your way of playing.
All over the pitch we are just insipid when needing to be stronger and simply too easy to play against. Way too easy.
We have an excess of injuries, which any team would struggle to manage. Let's not dismiss that because of any dislike of Postecoglou's tactics.
Part of me wants to see Postecoglou get a full 2 seasons, because the narrative if he is sacked is that he would have been fine with more time. It's always the way but how long do you wait? And the risk if you wait too long?
In January, regardless of who the manager is, we need 2/3 players.
It is also quite clear for those who equate an excess of goals to their level of excitement, that many (or a few) buy into Postecoglou's methods.
As mentioned and exactly right, you want a player like Van Der Ven to use his exceptional pace infrequently and when that is not the case, you are risking his main asset but you are also exposing the fragility of your way of playing.
All over the pitch we are just insipid when needing to be stronger and simply too easy to play against. Way too easy.
We have an excess of injuries, which any team would struggle to manage. Let's not dismiss that because of any dislike of Postecoglou's tactics.
Part of me wants to see Postecoglou get a full 2 seasons, because the narrative if he is sacked is that he would have been fine with more time. It's always the way but how long do you wait? And the risk if you wait too long?
In January, regardless of who the manager is, we need 2/3 players.