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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
I love all the guys saying, "We need a real manager!" Like any manager forced to end a game with a CB tandem of Archie Gray and Yves Bissouma would just have things all sorted out. I mean, sure, let's play Liverpool with Dragusin and Gray and sit back and try to soak up pressure for 90 minutes. That sounds like a great idea. Can you realistically see any manager of status being in charge where we've got no CBs (for the second year in a row, no less!!) not suffering? It's preposterous.

Sure, maybe we could make some systematic changes, and maybe we only would've lost by a goal or two against Liverpool. But losing your top two CBs heading into the holidays for the second year in a row is devastating, and no club would be immune. This is the same club where Jose and Conte lost games in Europe, which were inexcusable losses, for basically the same reasons. Remember losing to a club while the manager was in jail!? Or when Conte lost 3-0 to a bunch of farmers? The reality is that our managers are working under a different constraint here.

This is like the scene in Wall-E where the ship's captain realizes that the issue wasn't the other captains but the autopilot all along.
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Love that metaphor tbh :ange-lol:
 
Conte
P,56 W,32 D,9 L,15 F,112 A,64 Pts, 105

Ange
P,56 W,27 D,8 L,21 F113, A,87 Pts, 89

I'm sure this has been posted already, but this is pretty damning and shows he just not that good.

And this isn't a conte appreciation post either. But just a direct comparison to his predecessor.
 
I love all the guys saying, "We need a real manager!" Like any manager forced to end a game with a CB tandem of Archie Gray and Yves Bissouma would just have things all sorted out. I mean, sure, let's play Liverpool with Dragusin and Gray and sit back and try to soak up pressure for 90 minutes. That sounds like a great idea. Can you realistically see any manager of status being in charge where we've got no CBs (for the second year in a row, no less!!) not suffering? It's preposterous.

Sure, maybe we could make some systematic changes, and maybe we only would've lost by a goal or two against Liverpool. But losing your top two CBs heading into the holidays for the second year in a row is devastating, and no club would be immune. This is the same club where Jose and Conte lost games in Europe, which were inexcusable losses, for basically the same reasons. Remember losing to a club while the manager was in jail!? Or when Conte lost 3-0 to a bunch of farmers? The reality is that our managers are working under a different constraint here.

This is like the scene in Wall-E where the ship's captain realizes that the issue wasn't the other captains but the autopilot all along.
3.png
We have been fucking dogshit before we lost our centre backs and our goalkeeper, why are people acting like we were on fucking fire before the injuries? We have been shit for 2 seasons barring a 10 game run.
 
I love all the guys saying, "We need a real manager!" Like any manager forced to end a game with a CB tandem of Archie Gray and Yves Bissouma would just have things all sorted out. I mean, sure, let's play Liverpool with Dragusin and Gray and sit back and try to soak up pressure for 90 minutes. That sounds like a great idea. Can you realistically see any manager of status being in charge where we've got no CBs (for the second year in a row, no less!!) not suffering? It's preposterous.

Sure, maybe we could make some systematic changes, and maybe we only would've lost by a goal or two against Liverpool. But losing your top two CBs heading into the holidays for the second year in a row is devastating, and no club would be immune. This is the same club where Jose and Conte lost games in Europe, which were inexcusable losses, for basically the same reasons. Remember losing to a club while the manager was in jail!? Or when Conte lost 3-0 to a bunch of farmers? The reality is that our managers are working under a different constraint here.

This is like the scene in Wall-E where the ship's captain realizes that the issue wasn't the other captains but the autopilot all along.
3.png
Why are we just talking about Liverpool who are the best team in Europe right now.

If Ange didn't throw both our injured CB's in who both had what, one day training, both would likely be fit now.

Also you can still play a highish line and press well enough without throwing both your fullback's forward at every opportunity and also give them a bit of protection by having your midfield sit in a bit.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
 
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This is the same club where Jose and Conte lost games in Europe, which were inexcusable losses, for basically the same reasons. Remember losing to a club while the manager was in jail!? Or when Conte lost 3-0 to a bunch of farmers? The reality is that our managers are working under a different constraint here.
Next to nobody is implying that a new manager would make us invincible. Close to everyone is in agreement that these owners have put a ceiling on what we can achieve. The question is, is that ceiling 11th whilst lets be honest being the laughing stock of the league? It isn't and we know it isn't.

I mean, sure, let's play Liverpool with Dragusin and Gray and sit back and try to soak up pressure for 90 minutes. That sounds like a great idea.

Nobody's saying that either. There has to be a middle ground being sitting on the edge of your box for 90 minutes and the structureless mess that we have.

The big issue last Sunday was not the result. I didn't hear a Spurs fan expect anything other than a defeat against Liverpool. And there is a world where I think a lot of fans would be very forgiving, due to the fact that we had that as a centre back pairing.

The fact of the matter is, and the reason people were so irate.... is that we didn't concede 6 because of those centre backs.

Liverpool brought the best centre back in the world, with a good, experienced partner to our stadium. Not once were they left isolated against our whole attack, the way our centre backs were with theirs multiple times.

Our midfield is as easily bypassed as any in the league. We are on the end of more 3v2's or 4v3's in transition in one game than a good team should be in one month.

Now would Romero and VDV deal with those situations better? Yes. But there's a reason why Romero and VDV being back won't suddenly magic us into being a stable team.. Because we've had them available for most of 2024, and look at how our results over this year stack up.
 
I'm not even sure if this accusation of enjoying a "managerial-merry-go-round" is factually correct. Have we employed more managers in, let's say, the last 20 years compared to some other clubs that are often mentioned as benchmarks of success?

Clubs like Bayern (13), Real Madrid (16) and Ajax (13) have actually had more full-time managers than us (10) in the same time period. If we're guilty of changing managers too much, then these supposedly enviable clubs are doing even worse.

Like it or hate it, this managerial-merry-go-round is universal. It's not something we as a club are particularly guilty of resorting to. In fact, we're probably on the more conservative side in terms of sticking with our managers in the face of adversity.

The average lifetime of a manager is around 18 months. Don't expect them to get years and years, hundreds of millions of pounds worth of signings before you think you can start evaluating them. No one is afforded this sort of a luxury, for good reasons.
I looked at some other clubs, clubs that are usually appreciated by football fans with the way they operate. Here are the number of full-time managers they've each had in the last 20 years:

Dortmund: 11
Barcelona:10
Inter: 13

Each of these clubs had a fair share of "trigger happy" sackings of their own. None of Gasperini, Ranieri, Benitez, De Boer, Bosz, Koeman and Rose enjoyed much time or patience from their respective boards . None of them even made it to the aforementioned 18 month threshold. In fact, most didn't even get a full season. Inter sacked Gasperini after 5 matches, De Boer after 14 matches, and Ranieri after 35 matches. Dortmund sacked Bosz after 24 matches. The list goes on.

The picture is clear to me. We're not trigger happy at all, whatever that means. These clubs would have never tolerated what we have been tolerating since last November. Even though I still prefer him to an interim, if Ange indeed gets the sack soon, it won't be because Levy/board made a rash decision. Far from it.
 
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I love all the guys saying, "We need a real manager!" Like any manager forced to end a game with a CB tandem of Archie Gray and Yves Bissouma would just have things all sorted out. I mean, sure, let's play Liverpool with Dragusin and Gray and sit back and try to soak up pressure for 90 minutes. That sounds like a great idea. Can you realistically see any manager of status being in charge where we've got no CBs (for the second year in a row, no less!!) not suffering? It's preposterous.

Sure, maybe we could make some systematic changes, and maybe we only would've lost by a goal or two against Liverpool. But losing your top two CBs heading into the holidays for the second year in a row is devastating, and no club would be immune. This is the same club where Jose and Conte lost games in Europe, which were inexcusable losses, for basically the same reasons. Remember losing to a club while the manager was in jail!? Or when Conte lost 3-0 to a bunch of farmers? The reality is that our managers are working under a different constraint here.

This is like the scene in Wall-E where the ship's captain realizes that the issue wasn't the other captains but the autopilot all along.
3.png
Totally overlooks the decisions and choices by current under qualified manager that put us in this position. Utter delusion.
 
I looked at some other clubs, clubs that are usually appreciated by football fans with the way they operate. Here are the number of full-time managers they've had in the last 20 years:

Dortmund: 11
Barcelona:10
Inter: 13

Each of these clubs had a fair share of "trigger happy" sackings of their own. None of Gasperini, Ranieri, Benitez, De Boer, Bosz, Koeman and Rose enjoyed much time or patience from their respective boards . None of them even made it to the aforementioned 18 month threshold. In fact, most didn't even get a full season. Inter sacked Gasperini after 5 matches, De Boer after 14 matches, and Ranieri after 35 matches. Dortmund sacked Bosz after 24 matches. The list goes on.

The picture is clear to me. We're not trigger happy at all, whatever that means. These clubs would have never tolerated what we have been tolerating since last November. Even though I still prefer him to an interim, if Ange indeed gets the sack soon, it won't be because Levy/board made a rash decision. Far from it.
No other club has gone with interim managers as much as we have. We have gone 71 games with interim managers. We have sacked the manager in September and not appointed his replacement until the following summer under Levy. No other club in the world would do this the only other club to go an extended period of time under an interim is United and the Glazers have run them terribly.
 
I love all the guys saying, "We need a real manager!" Like any manager forced to end a game with a CB tandem of Archie Gray and Yves Bissouma would just have things all sorted out. I mean, sure, let's play Liverpool with Dragusin and Gray and sit back and try to soak up pressure for 90 minutes. That sounds like a great idea. Can you realistically see any manager of status being in charge where we've got no CBs (for the second year in a row, no less!!) not suffering? It's preposterous.

Sure, maybe we could make some systematic changes, and maybe we only would've lost by a goal or two against Liverpool. But losing your top two CBs heading into the holidays for the second year in a row is devastating, and no club would be immune. This is the same club where Jose and Conte lost games in Europe, which were inexcusable losses, for basically the same reasons. Remember losing to a club while the manager was in jail!? Or when Conte lost 3-0 to a bunch of farmers? The reality is that our managers are working under a different constraint here.

This is like the scene in Wall-E where the ship's captain realizes that the issue wasn't the other captains but the autopilot all along.
3.png
We're not scrabbling around the bottom half of the table because of Liverpool and Forest. We're down here because we've been poor since that miserable Chelsea game last season.

Our managers are constrained yes, by the standards of the big clubs fighting for the title. Our managers are not so constrained that we should look easily second best when we're up against the likes of Leicester, Palace, Ipswich, Fulham, Forest. Don't even get me started on the likes of fucking Rangers who played us off the park.
 
No other club has gone with interim managers as much as we have. We have gone 71 games with interim managers. We have sacked the manager in September and not appointed his replacement until the following summer under Levy. No other club in the world would do this the only other club to go an extended period of time under an interim is United and the Glazers have run them terribly.
A lot of other leagues have time limits for how long a interim manager can actually be interim. La Liga for example only allows an interim for like 3 games, then there needs to be a new permanent manager in.'

These rules do not exist in the Premier League. So there's no surprise really that you find longer interim runs in England.
 
The injury situation or some invisible Antipodean force is saving Postecoglou, although I am unsure any team (look at City) could cope in such circumstances

Quite how or why we have picked up so many injuries is something that is surely under analysis.

The worst thing about us, fit squad or not, is the ease at which we concede. No defence in any which way you choose to apply the term.
 
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That went right over my head. :) There is a lot of how managers and players move around in football that is down to agencies and business relationships. Just now you've got a front office and manager with ties to City Group. It's one more reason Postecoglou isn't going anywhere. Two things will save him. First, he was in the media and did motivational speaking in Australia and he's good at selling himself and his system. He put a lot of effort up front into telling fans what they wanted to hear and creating an image. That reserve of good will is still working for him. But the second thing is the people in the front office who should be overseeing his work and evaluating him are often from the same network of connections. I think he is as close to "fire proof" as any Spurs manager has ever been.
Ange won't get a job for a top half PL side after he's left spurs.
He'll disappear to some random league next. Maybe he'll give the New Zealand National League a go. Incepted in 2021 so no history or pressure.
 
Correct
We're not scrabbling around the bottom half of the table because of Liverpool and Forest. We're down here because we've been poor since that miserable Chelsea game last season.

Our managers are constrained yes, by the standards of the big clubs fighting for the title. Our managers are not so constrained that we should look easily second best when we're up against the likes of Leicester, Palace, Ipswich, Fulham, Forest. Don't even get me started on the likes of fucking Rangers who played us off the park.

Correct, although Forest should not be such an unfavourable comparator, even allowing for their splendid season thus far.
 
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