ok I get it, we lost some games and we are an attacking focused team. That wasn’t the conversation that you just hijacked
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Manager Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Spot On!
Everyone can see it, been mentioned in the media it's a poorly coached team.
Matt"says the same thing 1882million times" accusing others of "cluttering up threads" is irony so strong it can be felt inside the Super Massive Black Hole at the centre of the galaxy
Brilliant post
I think the system is a reasonable one. The problem is that it appears to be so defining that at many times it defies reality. Ange has this thing that if a player takes the "easy way out" once, it then becomes heroin and they never say no to it again.
The problem with this outlook is that he is dealing with elite players. You need to trust players to make in game decisions at times. The bigger problem is that the "easy way out" is often the best if not the only reasonable decision that should be made.
We never stop learning until we die or lose our minds. Ange changing some things because of the last two years of experiences is hardly an admission of failure and defeat.
That he comes across as thinking that way bothers me. I don't trust people in serious situations that think they know it all, and are closed to reasonable input they may or may not agree with. In fairness to him that is just my perception from things he's said, and I may be wrong.
What isn't wrong is results. They dont lie. Maybe Ange is right and the game is wrong. All I know is that if results dont improve the guy that's right will be replaced by the wrong guy for the wrong game.
The problem with this outlook is that he is dealing with elite players. You need to trust players to make in game decisions at times. The bigger problem is that the "easy way out" is often the best if not the only reasonable decision that should be made.
We never stop learning until we die or lose our minds. Ange changing some things because of the last two years of experiences is hardly an admission of failure and defeat.
That he comes across as thinking that way bothers me. I don't trust people in serious situations that think they know it all, and are closed to reasonable input they may or may not agree with. In fairness to him that is just my perception from things he's said, and I may be wrong.
What isn't wrong is results. They dont lie. Maybe Ange is right and the game is wrong. All I know is that if results dont improve the guy that's right will be replaced by the wrong guy for the wrong game.
The excuses being made for Ange and the reluctance from the board to sack him are mind-boggling to me. This is not “keeping faith in the project” this is simply lowering the acceptable standards for this club. Much better managers than Ange got sacked for doing better than he has. There are already murmurs about United sacking a second manager this season and they are only 2 points behind us in the league.
Ange’s football (after the 10 game new manager bounce), has only ever worked against teams that bend over and let you win. United, City, West Ham, etc. After seeing how we fared against Woolwich, Liverpool, Chelsea, Palace, Rangers, Galatasaray, Fulham and countless others there is zero chance we can win a cup playing this way. ZERO.
The whole point of restructuring our football department was to deliver a longer-term consistency that didn’t rely on a single manager being in place. There is nothing wrong with deciding after 18 months that Ange is not the right guy for us. The results aren’t acceptable, the performances aren’t acceptable, the injuries he's caused aren’t acceptable, the use of the squad isn’t acceptable. We don’t need to see anymore.
I fully understand that our chairman and directors are embarrassed to sack yet another manager but is it worth getting relegated out of embarrassment? Is it worth throwing away a chance at the FA Cup and Europa League out of embarrassment?
Ange’s football (after the 10 game new manager bounce), has only ever worked against teams that bend over and let you win. United, City, West Ham, etc. After seeing how we fared against Woolwich, Liverpool, Chelsea, Palace, Rangers, Galatasaray, Fulham and countless others there is zero chance we can win a cup playing this way. ZERO.
The whole point of restructuring our football department was to deliver a longer-term consistency that didn’t rely on a single manager being in place. There is nothing wrong with deciding after 18 months that Ange is not the right guy for us. The results aren’t acceptable, the performances aren’t acceptable, the injuries he's caused aren’t acceptable, the use of the squad isn’t acceptable. We don’t need to see anymore.
I fully understand that our chairman and directors are embarrassed to sack yet another manager but is it worth getting relegated out of embarrassment? Is it worth throwing away a chance at the FA Cup and Europa League out of embarrassment?
Fair enough
I've mostly had apathy with this club since 1991 with the odd moments of joy. It is what it is.
Results have been shit since game 11 last season. The handful of thrashings of tired/disorganised/crisis/relegation teams that his "system" enables have masked a truly dire 14 months for Spurs.
Personally, I think Ange was a panic hire by the club—a calculated gamble by Levy, who cleverly leaned into the whole ‘Angeball’ and ‘We’ve got our Spurs back’ narrative to buy himself some goodwill after the Nuno debacle and those first ten games really helped to sell this further. Combine that with Ange’s knack for talking a good game, and suddenly you’ve got this protective bubble around him, shielding him from criticism longer than most managers would get in his position.
But as many have pointed out, no matter how much supposed charm he brings or how romanticised his playing style is, football ultimately boils down to results. If the current trajectory continues, I just can’t see him surviving until the end of the season. Sentiment can only carry you so far—eventually, reality catches up.
But as many have pointed out, no matter how much supposed charm he brings or how romanticised his playing style is, football ultimately boils down to results. If the current trajectory continues, I just can’t see him surviving until the end of the season. Sentiment can only carry you so far—eventually, reality catches up.
I think this tweet and the original video get closer to what the conversation should be
View: https://x.com/jon_mackenzie/status/1873852037508849832?s=46&t=fbqxNuG9CT4qTaiJx8mBjg
I’m obviously open to a different coach than Ange being what we need but not a complete change in direction away from attacking football.
And as long as we accept that we are in the middle of a complete change in direction and squad build away from Son and Kane consistently getting us enough points to keep fans happy.
I don’t want a new coach who won’t give minutes to Gray, Bergvall, Moore, and Odobert etc even if that coach might get us regular 5th place finishes because I’m bored of that cycle and investing in young players who have a higher ceiling than the senior players which fit our salary and budget is a direction I agree with.
That’s why I’m still in favor of adding more seniors to this squad to see if that helps us short term whilst Ange is here, because I know he’s going to keep giving minutes to our talented young players.
Think Ange is a big if an outlier in that he doesn’t do defensive drills v static opponents or even on an empty pitch.
Italian and Spanish coaches use those type of drills as a standard to put ideas of shape out of possession into practice.
And the story of Ossie running a 11 v 0 drill on a full size pitch at Newcastle always makes me laugh.
They were losing games and playing badly so he got the first team out to run through a short game with no opponents - get a bit of confidence up.
From kick off they passed it back to the GK and managed to score an own goal. Brilliant.
We finished 5th last year. Looks like an overachievement now.
Then cleared out a bunch of veteran pros and brought in mostly kids.
Exactly, the big wins we had in 2024 are not some vindication of Ange they are just us punishing tired, lazy or shit teams with quick counter attacks. At Villa away last season and United away this season we also had a man advantage.
When was the last time we beat a team in good form? When was the last time we got three points because we outfought a tough opponent and earned the right to play? Or just snatched a goal and ground out a win? I honestly can’t remember.
His system just seems to be based on, we will out attack you.
But it only works a few times, we are so easily out thought and beaten, can't believe they are going to give him more time.
Just get someone in who, can provide a more balanced approach, solid at the back and decent in attack.
Eh?
Pocchettino took over a Spurs that had just finished 6th with 69 points. Struggled massively until a player led revolution made him start the bloke who would go on to become the greatest striker in Premier League history. That led to undoubtedly a golden period which came to an abrupt end when he was (wrongly) sacked with us plunging down the table.
Ange Postecoglou took over a team that finished 8th in the league with 60 points. A CLUB in an absolute state of despair. We were a rabble from top to bottom. Our fans loathed most of the players. And we sold the greatest striker in Premier League history a week before the season began.
I agree with your assessment that Pochettino is a better manager than Postecoglou but rewriting history doesn't help.
In a way the AngeOut crowd should love our summer business. Board is treating Ange like a caretaker manager.
Everyone just needs to be patient. If we keep with our current transfer business, just need to wait 4-5 years. These kids will eventually age and maybe be good
I mean - this is just true innit. All the rest of the shouting and froth is meaningless.
There is no doubt that the club has no interest in winning now. Everything is geared towards the future so in a way Ange is just a guinea pig being forced to play the young players who are just not ready to win now.In a way the AngeOut crowd should love our summer business. Board is treating Ange like a caretaker manager.
Everyone just needs to be patient. If we keep with our current transfer business, just need to wait 4-5 years. These kids will eventually age and maybe be good
The problem with this model is that the players who are ready (Kulusevski, Romero, VDV) will just get sick of hanging around and not playing in the champions league. So we end up selling them and just replacing them with more young talent. Its a vicious cycle where you end up like a dog chasing your own tail because you never have a team that is actually ready to win. You will always be 2/3 players short.
Plus them young players are only getting games because of massive injuries which a lot of them come down to Anges style, training. Imo gray,bergval etc wouldnt be anywhere close to some decent gametime without injuries