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Manager Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%

  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%
  • Total voters
    113
manmountainbutters said:
As an interim I think we could do with a pragmatist. The main reason I want an interim is I genuinely think we have a significantly improved and decent chance of winning the EL if we do it soon. Even Ange should avoid relegation
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I think that pragmatism is key to being a success here any ways.

Not in the sense that we have to play defensive football necessarily. But it needs to be a manager that is willing to work with what he gets for the most part and who is capable to adapt his football based on the players on hand. Rather than a Conte or Ange style extremist.
 
Emala said:
Ancelotti believe in flexibility and pragmatism rather than ideology and orthodoxy. That's why he is better than GuardioIa.
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Guardiola is one of the most flexible managers around lol, open your eyes and look at the formations he uses. He's constantly tweaking and adjusting which is how he's stayed ahead of literally every other manager in the Prem over the past decade. He's also the biggest innovator in football history and has changed the game beyond all recognition.

He's also one of the most successful managers of all time. And in terms of league performance has been much more successful than Ancelotti who only has about 5-6 league titles in 20+ years of managing the top teams in European football.

Pep has won every league title he's competed in bar three, in about 16 years of managing. Just take that stat in for a second, do you realise how absurd that is? He lost one to Mou's Real, one to Conte's Chelsea in his first year at City, and one to Klopp's Liverpool. That's it.

Ancelotti has him on CLs by five to three, but he's also been managing longer. And you could argue success in the CL is more about luck anyway. We were a shit team and got to the final. But at the very least you could say their achievements roughly match one another's.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Other than the 16 odd games over that Christmas period. And the sequence of games that got us to the SF.

But whatever, if that’s what everyone wants, sack him.

We will be right back here shortly debating the narratives that have evolved around the next man’s imperfections. No matter what level they are… ie Jose and Conte.
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What would it take for you to not believe in Ange?
 
ShutUpPatrik said:
I think that there are two versions (at minimum) of elite coaches.

One type are the ones that can develop players and make a team better than the sum of its parts.

And then there are the types that are elite at managing and handling big name egos and personalities. Ancelotti being a prime example of such a coach.
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Elite Football teams are because increasingly like F1 teams IMO ( or vice versa ). ; the rules of the game are simple ; and winning seems a simple question of performance.

But behind that is a scientifically complicated process involving micro-advantages derived from all kinds of people’s inputs.

The fine.margins and arbitrary/ random things that decide the outcomes have to be factored in and accounted by a whole team of people. ; who the public never get to know.

The head - coach / Manager has to understand everything, oversee it and do the media interviews and provide the psychological motivation to the people doing the work.

And , most importantly of all ; the Team’s owner must be rich committed and ( at the relevant instances ) be lucky.

It’s not as easy or as straightforward as inexpensive as it was , say 40 or 59 years ago . When even Privateers could go F1 racing ( and win ) . And go out drinking afterwards.

Apologies if I’ve overstretched the analogy/ comparison.

PS : loads of people say that F1 is now boring , dominated by a few teams with the most resources who can afford to hire the best people and employ the best drivers ; honestly football’s going the same way ; it could be argued.
 
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Richard Arlison said:
Liverpool was disgraceful. Not a single shot on target,

The most cowardly performance since Conte era.
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I'm not arguing that it wasn't, but it seems like you're only just about catching up with most everyone else on here.

Losing at home to Ipswich was disgraceful, losing at home to Leicester was disgraceful, away to Everton was disgraceful.

By the time Liverpool and Villa came round I was already numb to it. Those sides are better than us, I can accept those defeats way more than fucking Ipswich and Leicester at home.
 
Klaus said:
Guardiola is one of the most flexible managers around lol, open your eyes and look at the formations he uses. He's constantly tweaking and adjusting which is how he's stayed ahead of literally every other manager in the Prem over the past decade.
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I am not talking about formations, i am talking about philosophy and ideology. If you look at one of the Barca games on YT from the Guardiola era you will notice that there are more similarities than differences between that team and City.

Klaus said:
He's also the biggest innovator in football history and has changed the game beyond all recognition.
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This is a myth. Most of the stuff he has done has been done before, both in terms of formations and of playing style. False nines, ball-playing defenders and goalkeepers etc existed before Guardiola.

Klaus said:
Pep has won every league title he's competed in bar three, in about 16 years of managing. Just take that stat in for a second, do you realise how absurd that is? He lost one to Mou's Real, one to Conte's Chelsea in his first year at City, and one to Klopp's Liverpool. That's it.
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Winning the Bundesliga with Bayern is as impressive as winning the Scottish league with Celtic.
 
Herclueless said:
This makes the term "elite coach" seem a bit backwards.

Are you defining an elite coach as someone who is elite at coaching, or as one that can only coach elite players?

Because the latter description doesn't really sound impressive at all, most coaches could have success if furnished with elite players.

Surely an "elite" coach is exactly what you want to turn a lesser squad into something greater?
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Well, the serial winners in recent times - Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti all did it with elite squads.
 
Matt1882 said:
More reasonable a response than I expected.

What I will say, more in addition than in disagreement...
I think after the Conte rant, instead of sulking about it and sacking him, Levy should have begged him to help change all the issues he addressed. He was bang on with every single gripe he raised.
I believe Nono was always a stop gap. I don't think we ever intended to keep him long term. I reckon we knew we could get Conte later on.
I wouldn't say AVB and Postecoglu are comparable tbh. AVB was sacked after MW 16 wit 5 losses. At MW 16 this season we'd already lost 7. We'd won 8 of those 16 - we only have 8 from 24 so far. By every metric, this season is worse than the season AVB went and we've given him 8 more league games. I really didn't rate AVB, but he was better than this guy. He lost the dressing room because he was a soulless authoritarian and limited tactically. AngeLOSS is a "likeable" bloke who probably goes soft on the players so retains some of their support.
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AVB came in as Mourinho 'lite'. I suspect Levy thought he was onto the next big thing - and quickly realised that he wasn't all that. Apparently, an excellent football theorist, but not able to lead a squad. He made it publicly known that he was let down by the club with signings - having asked for a number of players (eg. Hulk, Moutinho) and not getting any of the players he asked for.

Seems to be the recurring theme will all our coaches - a disconnect with the board and the coach on expectations around the squad - lost promises.

Ange needs an elite number 6 in the summer; and if Maddison is done; an elite playmaker. If we want established quality, that is going to cost big money. Bruno G comes to mind as ticking these boxes - but don't see how we'd get him from Newcastle.
 
Emala said:
This is a myth. Most of the stuff he has done has been done before, both in terms of formations and of playing style. False nines, ball-playing defenders and goalkeepers etc existed before Guardiola.
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Nonsense.

Go and watch any match pre Guardiola. It's a different game entirely.

Yes there were "ball playing centre backs". No, teams did not build up from the keeper on goal kicks, positioning the CBs on the goal line outside the penalty area. Until Pep did it. Now everyone does it, even kids at under-8 level are doing it. That's all Guardiola's influence.

No teams ever inverted their centre backs into midfield. Now half the league does it.

That's just two examples. But Pep is constantly innovating, changing his structure slightly every season. As Slot says, if you're not analysing Pep, what are you even doing?

Football has changed beyond all recognition since Guardiola and if you don't see that you don't know this game, frankly.
 
Herclueless said:
I'm not arguing that it wasn't, but it seems like you're only just about catching up with most everyone else on here.

Losing at home to Ipswich was disgraceful, losing at home to Leicester was disgraceful, away to Everton was disgraceful.

By the time Liverpool and Villa came round I was already numb to it. Those sides are better than us, I can accept those defeats way more than fucking Ipswich and Leicester at home.
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This. The irony of Liverpool being the last straw for people. It was merely the latest in a long line of disgraceful performances. Ipswich. Palace. Coventry. Wolves. Fulham. Leicester. Any performance last season from April onward.

If you're only just seeing how poorly coached we are I have literally zero respect for your take on the Liverpool and Villa cup exits. They were no worse than the performance away to Liverpool in the league last April when everyone was fit, so I don't know what people were expecting.
 
Klaus said:
Nonsense.

Go and watch any match pre Guardiola. It's a different game entirely.

Yes there were "ball playing centre backs". No, teams did not build up from the keeper on goal kicks, positioning the CBs on the goal line outside the penalty area. Until Pep did it. Now everyone does it, even kids at under-8 level are doing it. That's all Guardiola's influence.

No teams ever inverted their centre backs into midfield. Now half the league does it.

That's just two examples. But Pep is constantly innovating, changing his structure slightly every season. As Slot says, if you're not analysing Pep, what are you even doing?

Football has changed beyond all recognition since Guardiola and if you don't see that you don't know this game, frankly.
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Cruyff used inverted full-backs and asked centre backs to move up to midfield. And goalkeepers like Amadeo Carrizo and Grosics was occasionally involved in the build up because of their decent feet long before Guardiola was born.
 
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