• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Manager Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%

  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%
  • Total voters
    113
Hotspurpaul said:
😆.......you do realise whenever they did qualify for it, they never actually won it?....in fact being knocked out by Olympiakos one year!....in fact they've only won ONE european trophy in their history.
But you keep noshing them off if it helps your cause!!....😆😆
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How is that relevant at all?

Woolwich were better than us last season and also better than their past teams that couldn’t win the Europa.
 
dudu said:
I mean, context is everything, bro, and also, in this sport, so is winning.

When was the last trophy we won? Add in how many inferior teams we have lost to in cup competitions over the years since our last trophy? I think winning the Europa League is a far bigger when you look at the whole picture, and also just a more tangible achievement than getting to a CL final. It's in the history books. We didn't get anything for beating Ajax.

For you better team = better achievement but Poch failed at every attempt to win something with that far superior team.

Also, bringing up the conference league is a straw man - and I think you know it.

I'm never going to be convinced that getting to a final and losing it a better achievement for the club than winning one. I can kind of see where you are coming from, if we had won 10 trophies in the last 20 years and not crashed out of the Europa, and conference league plenty during that time to lesser competition. But we hadn't. We were perennial losers, unable to cross the finish line for too long.

That night meant more to me and countless Spurs fans than cowardly losing a CL final.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That’s fine if Europa means more to you. It seems like there are people on both sides of the argument.

But bringing up Conference League is not strawman at all. The Champions League is the superior competition, followed by Europa, followed by conference league. My argument is that winning a competition isn’t automatically better than not winning a competition. The strength of the competition matters.

You seem to have an opinion that the drop off from CL to Europa is not notable enough but the drop off from Europa to Conference is significant and winning the conference becomes irrelevant. Personally, I disagree.

Winning the CL or PL is the pinnacle of the sport for most clubs at our level. FA Cup, LC, Europa are nice achievements but not the same level. The only team in the Europa we didn’t dwarf in finances are the dysfunctional Manchester United.

I don’t care about going down in history because we finished 5th in the PL the previous year to qualify for Europa instead of 4th to qualify for the CL. To me, I want to see the club reach the pinnacle of the sport. And the closest we came to that was the CL final.
 
Will be interesting to see how Forest get on at Burnley.

If they lose, and then don't win against Real Betis next weds (which is away, and hard to win) then I think things could get really toxic at the City Ground vs Sunderland in their next home game if they go behind.
 
bonaspur23 said:
Ok you clearly value trophies differently than I do.

I would 100% rather finish 2nd on 95 points than win a League Cup where we get a bunch of lucky draws.

That team last year was a fucking disgrace compared to most of the poch teams. They just got luckier.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I generally agree with you, though last season, I would have taken the season we had vs (say) finishing fourth and winning nothing just to win a major trophy.

The key point with Ange though is that we were sliding, and he was very unlikely to repeat the "shite in league, win a cup" trick, and in any event, having got the monkey off the back, such a season would have less value for the club this year.
 
OziBeerMan said:
As I said, glad you’re an expert.
You have no idea mate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
not an expert. Have seen enough to know that South Americans are very good at football and hard to beat over two legs as history tells us. So, better to play a tournament where it is easier to qualify... maybe that is why Australia do qualify now playing in the Asian group whereas previously after 1974 until 2006 they did not. WC results also tell the story. Every nation wants to qualify man, there's sponsorship, tv all sorts of money to be made. But carry on, it's about getting practice and your man really is the bestest.
What the real result is that he is gone and his fans will now follow Forest. Everyone's a winner :thumbup:
 
bonaspur23 said:
That’s fine if Europa means more to you. It seems like there are people on both sides of the argument.

But bringing up Conference League is not strawman at all. The Champions League is the superior competition, followed by Europa, followed by conference league. My argument is that winning a competition isn’t automatically better than not winning a competition. The strength of the competition matters.

You seem to have an opinion that the drop off from CL to Europa is not notable enough but the drop off from Europa to Conference is significant and winning the conference becomes irrelevant. Personally, I disagree.

Winning the CL or PL is the pinnacle of the sport for most clubs at our level. FA Cup, LC, Europa are nice achievements but not the same level. The only team in the Europa we didn’t dwarf in finances are the dysfunctional Manchester United.

I don’t care about going down in history because we finished 5th in the PL the previous year to qualify for Europa instead of 4th to qualify for the CL. To me, I want to see the club reach the pinnacle of the sport. And the closest we came to that was the CL final.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No one is saying one comp isn't superior to the other, nor that they don't want to reach the pinnacle of the sport. But losing a final is not reaching any kind of pinnacle - neither was finishing 2nd place in the league to Chelsea the year we did.

Youre talking about us like we have won trophy after trophy in our recent history.
 
dudu said:
No one is saying one comp isn't superior to the other, nor that they don't want to reach the pinnacle of the sport. But losing a final is not reaching any kind of pinnacle - neither was finishing 2nd place in the league to Chelsea the year we did.

Youre talking about us like we have won trophy after trophy in our recent history.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Losing the final is one game away from the pinnacle and closer than winning the Europa. Our 2 legged wins that year against Dortmund, City, and Ajax were all more impressive than any Europa win. The only argument is Dortmund and Frankfurt were probably comparable.

I watch football for the enjoyment and to make my life happier. I got far more enjoyment from the 86 point season and CL final run than I did from last season.

I didn’t sit down and watch the full 90 minutes of a league match after February last year. The performances were pathetic. Why waste 90 minutes of my time watching shit football and putting myself in a bad mood? I watched the Europa league matches because they had a purpose but they weren’t that enjoyable outside of winning the final, which was still some terrible football.

If all spurs seasons were like last season, I would lose my love for them over time. It was fucking torture to me every week until the Europa final, which didn’t make up for it to me.

I just think the trophy vs no trophy argument in a complete vacuum is flawed. If Wrexham wins the Championship this season, and then finishes 2nd in the PL next season, no one in their damn mind is saying that winning the Championship is the bigger accomplishment.
 
dudu said:
No one is saying one comp isn't superior to the other, nor that they don't want to reach the pinnacle of the sport. But losing a final is not reaching any kind of pinnacle - neither was finishing 2nd place in the league to Chelsea the year we did.

Youre talking about us like we have won trophy after trophy in our recent history.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm looking this up as I type, but I was interested to know the league position when we won cups in prior years. I'll start AFTER the 61 double.

62 FA Cup - 3rd
63 Cup Winners Cup - 2nd
67 FA Cup - 3rd
71 League Cup - 3rd
72 Uefa Cup - 6th
73 League Cup - 8th
81 FA Cup - 10th
82 FA Cup - 4th
84 Uefa Cup - 8th
91 FA Cup - 10th
99 League Cup - 11th
08 League Cup - 11th
25 Europa League - 17th


4 top 3 finishes with a cup.
6 if you inclue top 6.
Lowest prior to last season was 11th on 46 points (08)


I may be in the minority, but I can't be alone in feeling that winning a very 2nd rate cup in a season where we lost 22 games in the league and resorted to parking the bus to get over the line wasn't as great as some make it out to be.
Is it nice to get the monkey off our back, yes?
Was it one of the greatest nights I've had as a Spurs fan?
No. I felt much, much more when we beat the PL Champions Chelsea in the league cup final after smashing Arse 5-1 and even that was a "meh" PL season.

There was no magic last season. We played a series of teams in the Europa League that would struggle/not stand a chance in the PL.
The team we beat in the final are huge. In name only now.
 
CJJ said:
I don't know - a manager with some flexibility would have shut up shop/shithoused their way through it.

We kind of did that in the EL eventually. Just seemed like he was too stubborn to play any other way to get results.

Like an anti-Mourinho.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Maybe, don't see that as make or break for him though - the opponents we faced in the EL weren't a patch on Liverpool

I wouldn't have that down as a fuck up, the Chelsea home match was more glaring than that.
 
AberdeenYid said:
Can we not enjoy both the run to the final of the CL and winning the Europa? Why does one have to trump the other?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can. I just shared my opinion and the reasoning for it. I get that it is a tiring discussion though.

I don't dislike Ange at all, certainly not compared to some of the people on this board that have severe trauma from him to the point where Ange would make a nothing comment and they would spin it into the worst thing anyone has ever said. I found that super annoying. People constantly calling him a fat cunt need to sort themselves out.

But last season was such a disappointment to me, and I didn't enjoy Ange's term as manager outside of his first 10 league matches.

I have enjoyed the start to this season more than I enjoyed last season. I'd rather have consistently good results with some promise than months of trauma followed by one shining moment.
 
Last edited:
Shadydan said:
Maybe, don't see that as make or break for him though - the opponents we faced in the EL weren't a patch on Liverpool

I wouldn't have that down as a fuck up, the Chelsea home match was more glaring than that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well it's more the context of gee-ing up the fans "let them believe" and all that "I win a cup in my 2nd season", taking a 1-0 lead, making us believe we're getting to a domestic cup final, then immediately showing us all how hopeless he was at this level. There was no plan, no game management, no adjustment - just an arrogant "we'll just bloody attack them mate", as if it wasn't Liverpool, and we didn't have Spence/Davies/Danso/Grey as our defenders
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top