Anthony Georgiou

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Tanganga has played all his youth games at CB, both RCB and LCB, bar a handful at RB and I think a couple at LB (although I have seen WindyCOYS WindyCOYS say never at LB so I could be mistaken).

So with that in mind, to get a youngster play in a new position to him @ LB against Watford ( especially with what I think was a dodgy yellow card after 20 minutes so had to play 70 minutes with that hanging over him) was pretty good - Watford were undoubtedly targeting him yet he hung in there well. A very composed performance. And might I suggest that Watford's left forward was probably their fastest and best player coming into the match - so not conceding was a pretty good result.

In his other 2 games he's played CB/RB, and whilst I think Mourhino's idea was that he play RB as a defender and not get up the pitch, Tanganga's willingness and ability to get up the flank and put in decent crossses was a real bonus, the one catching the eye was in the 93rd minute when most other players looked a little fatigued.

Poch had trained Foyth to be a CB and then switched to training him as a RB, so I would guess Foyth had a lot more individual training to play at RB than Tanganga has had, and Tanganga cannot have had much time at all being prepared for the LB role, a couple of days at absolute maximum.

So I'd suggest the narrative should be that Tanganga had 2 good games against Liverpool and Boro, and took one for the team in agreeing to play LB as nobody else was available to play there.

Of course Tanganga is not the finished article and will make mistakes, but so far he's earned a lot of credit in the bank.

But if I take your point and think of Watford being Tanganga's first game where he is being played in a new position (LB) then comparing that to Foyth's actual first PL game at CB, a position he had been coached in by Poch for a couple of years) …... conceding 2 penalties is not helpful to Foyth's cause, so suggest you don't put that idea forward again !.

So as I say, I think Tanganga could be the one playing first team football whilst Foyth is loaned out - not sure both could play at Spurs in the 2nd half of the season - maybe to a lower PL side or any other decent side to get more minutes on the clock.

And BTW there are a couple of other youth CB's coming through, behind both Tanganga and Foyth, who should be loaned out - lengthy post in the youth thread a couple of days ago if you are interested,
You seemed to have mistaken my post as a critical dig at Tanganga's performance against Watford, it absolutely is not. I want to see Tanganaga played (more importantly given the opportunity) to play at CB ahead of Toby & Jan!! I want both Toby and Jan to be dropped and our other CB's compete and develop their game with as many mins as possible this season. (With Toby's new contract just sorted I appreciate this is fanciful notion).

I floated the idea of viewing that Watford game as his first because no matter how you cut that performance he was simply outplayed for the first 3/4's of that game, he lost every one of his duels and they constantly got past us by beating him. For context, I have no major cause for concern from this performance and agree 100% with the defence you have put up in his favour.

But, if you will allow me to still play on the idea of a potential narrative being built you point towards Foyth's first performance and his two conceded penalties, but you offer no such defence of him as you did Tanganga. I clearly remember one of those pens wasn't his fault but it was down to Trippier being shit that completely exposed Foyth. The other one I can't remember the circumstance which leads to it. I never seen Foyth completely outplayed as Tangaga was against Watford. I repeat this isn't me having a pop at Tanganga, I agree with your defence of him, but he was outplayed and this hasn't happened to Foyth. So I'm saying he deserves the same respect and defence for his errors (unless of course, you think he's shit, which anyone is free to have that opinion).

I'm not having a pop at you personally, but if a player is constantly beaten and as a result chances are created for the opposition then that's kinda the same as conceding a pen, their pen came as a direct result of him getting beat and the ball cut back to unmarked Deulofeu to shoot and hit the arm of Vertonghen, as we know Gazza saved the pen, Lloris didn't save Foyth's conceded pen, this alone changes the conversation had Deney scored. They really should have scored another when Doucoure put the ball the wrong side of the post, again as a result of Tanganga getting beat. The point I'm struggling to make is if that was his first game he might be getting slaughtered by some quarters (not you) of the fan base, which then sticks like shit for ages.

It's also fair to assume at this point that Jose is far more likely to stick with Tangagna now as he is "his man". Foyth is "Poch's man". I know this sound a tad petty but if you look to how Jose dealt with Rashford "not Jose's man", whilst sticking with McTominay "Jose's man" there's possibly some logic to him fostering a team in his own image rather than that of the other guy. I think this happens a fair bit and certainly has done under Jose's other teams but not necessarily with academy players. This isn't a dig at Jose, he is trying to select players for his "gang" so to speak, foster a do things like this and you're in, he'll be looking for examples of players to cut which also has the same effect. Poch did exactly the same in his own way too, meaning those left standing are "his" just like an army boot camp selection process, those left standing feel they are the chosen ones.

I've gone off tangent here a tad, suffice to say that Foyth has shown in his appearances just as much as Tangagnga has and were it not for keepers making saves then the conversation is too to dissimilar for either. Maybe Tanganga gets away with it because the pen was conceded by Jan, who knows.

So, to be clear we have some incredibly talented prospects all at CB, all of which I think should be given significant mins ahead of Toby and Jan this year. They are Sanchez (our best performing CB this season), Tanganga, Foyth and Eyoma (who was arguably was ahead of Tanganga in the academy on performances). I know it want happen but this I feel will put us in good stead for many years to come, and the only downside is one or two fail to take their opportunity (like CCV, although there's another player that could be thrown back into the mix) and we end up selling or loaning out. (Sorry if this is similar or crosses over to the post/thread you alluded to that's in the youth thread, I'm struggling to read all the threads posted since Christmas but will try and get to it soon).
 
You seemed to have mistaken my post as a critical dig at Tanganga's performance against Watford, it absolutely is not. I want to see Tanganaga played (more importantly given the opportunity) to play at CB ahead of Toby & Jan!! I want both Toby and Jan to be dropped and our other CB's compete and develop their game with as many mins as possible this season. (With Toby's new contract just sorted I appreciate this is fanciful notion).

I floated the idea of viewing that Watford game as his first because no matter how you cut that performance he was simply outplayed for the first 3/4's of that game, he lost every one of his duels and they constantly got past us by beating him. For context, I have no major cause for concern from this performance and agree 100% with the defence you have put up in his favour.

But, if you will allow me to still play on the idea of a potential narrative being built you point towards Foyth's first performance and his two conceded penalties, but you offer no such defence of him as you did Tanganga. I clearly remember one of those pens wasn't his fault but it was down to Trippier being shit that completely exposed Foyth. The other one I can't remember the circumstance which leads to it. I never seen Foyth completely outplayed as Tangaga was against Watford. I repeat this isn't me having a pop at Tanganga, I agree with your defence of him, but he was outplayed and this hasn't happened to Foyth. So I'm saying he deserves the same respect and defence for his errors (unless of course, you think he's shit, which anyone is free to have that opinion).

I'm not having a pop at you personally, but if a player is constantly beaten and as a result chances are created for the opposition then that's kinda the same as conceding a pen, their pen came as a direct result of him getting beat and the ball cut back to unmarked Deulofeu to shoot and hit the arm of Vertonghen, as we know Gazza saved the pen, Lloris didn't save Foyth's conceded pen, this alone changes the conversation had Deney scored. They really should have scored another when Doucoure put the ball the wrong side of the post, again as a result of Tanganga getting beat. The point I'm struggling to make is if that was his first game he might be getting slaughtered by some quarters (not you) of the fan base, which then sticks like shit for ages.

It's also fair to assume at this point that Jose is far more likely to stick with Tangagna now as he is "his man". Foyth is "Poch's man". I know this sound a tad petty but if you look to how Jose dealt with Rashford "not Jose's man", whilst sticking with McTominay "Jose's man" there's possibly some logic to him fostering a team in his own image rather than that of the other guy. I think this happens a fair bit and certainly has done under Jose's other teams but not necessarily with academy players. This isn't a dig at Jose, he is trying to select players for his "gang" so to speak, foster a do things like this and you're in, he'll be looking for examples of players to cut which also has the same effect. Poch did exactly the same in his own way too, meaning those left standing are "his" just like an army boot camp selection process, those left standing feel they are the chosen ones.

I've gone off tangent here a tad, suffice to say that Foyth has shown in his appearances just as much as Tangagnga has and were it not for keepers making saves then the conversation is too to dissimilar for either. Maybe Tanganga gets away with it because the pen was conceded by Jan, who knows.

So, to be clear we have some incredibly talented prospects all at CB, all of which I think should be given significant mins ahead of Toby and Jan this year. They are Sanchez (our best performing CB this season), Tanganga, Foyth and Eyoma (who was arguably was ahead of Tanganga in the academy on performances). I know it want happen but this I feel will put us in good stead for many years to come, and the only downside is one or two fail to take their opportunity (like CCV, although there's another player that could be thrown back into the mix) and we end up selling or loaning out. (Sorry if this is similar or crosses over to the post/thread you alluded to that's in the youth thread, I'm struggling to read all the threads posted since Christmas but will try and get to it soon).

I think you would agree that there is quite a lot of luck in football.

Tanganga had a zero risk debut - firstly zero risk because nobody expected him to play and secondly zero risk because any fan thinking about it in advance of the game would think that Tanganga could easily get slaughtered by the form team in PL with the form forwards.

Whilst he certainly made mistakes (and indeed I think that Toby/Jan could easily have made similar mistakes despite their greater experience) he came out of that game looking very good, and equally against Boro even though the opposition were not as intimidating he looked pretty comfortable, whilst the Watford game playing at LB, as I said he took one fir the team.

Maybe Foyth had less luck as 2 penalties were awarded against him in his first game, and to some extent that sticks and people are looking fir him to make errors. But whilst he has made some errors in other games, overall he's not made a real pigs ear of it, and I think your comparison with someone likes Stones is a fair one.

Whilst I'd like a team full of youth, having experienced that with 'arry's EL/UEFA Cup teams I know its a better idea to have a mix of youth and experience in a team for many reasons, the pertinent one here being that its better for the youth to be guided through the game and learn from the experienced CB.

And as I think Tanganga has the edge, if only that his attitude 'unflappability' (if there is such a word) I suspect that he is the one to stay and Foyth loaned out - the other bonus being that Tanganga will be a club trained player whereas Foyth next season will be designated as an overseas trained player.

Moving on to other youth, Eyoma was regarded by Poch as the better CB although many youth watchers were surprised by that. However after an excellent preseason 2018 Eyoma fell into the Poch 'train with the first team but play no football other than first team football ' issue whereby other than a vey few minutes, Eyoma played no football for a year. This season he's seems to have regressed a little and is getting nothing out of playing u23 football - so its urgent he gets a loan to resurrect his career as a CB/RB where he was very decent - and maybe he'll be back to contest a first team place, but not atm.

My guess is that CCV, despite being aged only 22 and with a highly credible almost 90 appearances in Championship playing for 4 (?) clubs/managers is not seen as being better than Tanganga and will be sold either now or in the summer - if only because we have a wave of good CB's coming through, its probably our strongest youth position.
 
I think you would agree that there is quite a lot of luck in football.

Tanganga had a zero risk debut - firstly zero risk because nobody expected him to play and secondly zero risk because any fan thinking about it in advance of the game would think that Tanganga could easily get slaughtered by the form team in PL with the form forwards.

Whilst he certainly made mistakes (and indeed I think that Toby/Jan could easily have made similar mistakes despite their greater experience) he came out of that game looking very good, and equally against Boro even though the opposition were not as intimidating he looked pretty comfortable, whilst the Watford game playing at LB, as I said he took one fir the team.

Maybe Foyth had less luck as 2 penalties were awarded against him in his first game, and to some extent that sticks and people are looking fir him to make errors. But whilst he has made some errors in other games, overall he's not made a real pigs ear of it, and I think your comparison with someone likes Stones is a fair one.

Whilst I'd like a team full of youth, having experienced that with 'arry's EL/UEFA Cup teams I know its a better idea to have a mix of youth and experience in a team for many reasons, the pertinent one here being that its better for the youth to be guided through the game and learn from the experienced CB.

And as I think Tanganga has the edge, if only that his attitude 'unflappability' (if there is such a word) I suspect that he is the one to stay and Foyth loaned out - the other bonus being that Tanganga will be a club trained player whereas Foyth next season will be designated as an overseas trained player.

Moving on to other youth, Eyoma was regarded by Poch as the better CB although many youth watchers were surprised by that. However after an excellent preseason 2018 Eyoma fell into the Poch 'train with the first team but play no football other than first team football ' issue whereby other than a vey few minutes, Eyoma played no football for a year. This season he's seems to have regressed a little and is getting nothing out of playing u23 football - so its urgent he gets a loan to resurrect his career as a CB/RB where he was very decent - and maybe he'll be back to contest a first team place, but not atm.

My guess is that CCV, despite being aged only 22 and with a highly credible almost 90 appearances in Championship playing for 4 (?) clubs/managers is not seen as being better than Tanganga and will be sold either now or in the summer - if only because we have a wave of good CB's coming through, its probably our strongest youth position.
Agree with most of that mate.

Shame with CCV was all over him as I am Eyoma and Tanganga, although I think I've learned from looking at academy players more by what they do on the ball, with the ball that perhaps their overall performance on the day. CCV, whenever I saw him, was either MOTM or at least a contender for it, very strong and commanding CB, played with great authority and lead the team, but I may have not focused on his ability to playout from the back, build play, take a ball to feet when being closed down as opposed to being safe and clearing the ball. The big unknown is how a player deals with the pressure of playing in front of thousands of paying punters for the first team, whenever I saw him in the first team he looked incredibly nervous (unfortunately I've barely seen anything of him whilst on loan), lovely kid though who I've had the pleasure of meeting.

I would absolutely hate to see Foyth go, even on loan (although unselfishly this kid needs to be playing football for the sake of his career).

I genuinely believe we have more than a 50% chance of this group of young CB's that can be the future of this team. Only potential worry would be the gap between today and Toby/Jan, despite my love for both of these players the sooner we move away from them the better, take the hit now.
 
They are errors from young players mate, that's all. Are you expecting an error-free game from young players?
I don’t think they are just down to youth , I wish they were.

Foyth has had one too many strange errors in my opinion, not just the penalties but remember that absurd red card he picked up towards the end of last season?

Only time will tell but I see a downside with Foyth along with potential.

Hope I am wrong and you are right.
 
Spoke to Anthony's dad today on the phone. He works for one of our customers.
I mentioned Japhet's performance yesterday and he agreed and spoke highly of both him and Skippy, who he said always put in MOTM performances when he was watching them coming up through the ranks.
Seemed like a geniunely nice bloke, but I definitely detected a little sour note that he feels his lad never got a fair crack of the whip at the club. He said any time he did get on the pitch he was thrown in at FB when he was always a winger.
 
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