Antwerp v Spurs (Thursday 29th October @ 17.55)

[ryuzakiluke100]

We've thrown a bunch of talented players together for this one, but they haven't really played together. The performance was bad not because they are bad individual players, but the teamwork and organisation weren't there.

I think the lesson is that we can't rotate so many players, we need to keep a few key experienced players/leaders, particularly in the 'spine' and we didn't have enough of those out there tonight. No Toby/Dier, Hojbjerg/Sissoko, Kane/Son. These are guys we need to rest, but not all at the same time.

Jose must acknowledge that the team he put out hasn't played a lot together, and so might not gel instantly, but despite his 'blame me' line, everything else he said after the game sounded more like 'blame the players'. He needs to be careful as he has form in publically criticising his players and it rarely seems to pay off. There's a long season ahead and we need the whole squad together.

I don't believe anyone would expect all these individuals to click. It's more about the lack of desire to at least doing the basic thing right.

Davies had all the blame for his mess up, but in the bigger picture, it's lack of support that is the issue. Just help provide passing options. Pass it safely. We could have held out for 0-0. In short if you can't win it, at least trying to not lose it.

 

[Bazali]

So which players has he decided are not up to the job .... in your opinion ... based on tonight.

I didn’t see the game or anything so I’m genuinely interested in what you saw on the pitch that you think he saw as well.

As I said I didn’t see the first half but Winks Aurier Sanchez the usual culprits and from what I can gather Dele did himself no favours first half and Davies shitshow for their goal was unbelievable

 

[Cravenspurs]

I would love to see again that side which tore into the very heart of West Ham and ripped it apart within the first 20 minutes. The passion, the speed, the movement was a joy to behold but then someone pulled the switch and the light hasn't really come back on since. Is it perhaps the disappointment of only drawing that game which still lingers maybe ??.
Let's hope we massacre Brighton and get back on track this weekend.

The West Ham and SH games are examples of teams that are willing to play football, which opens up the quick ball beyond the backline.

I didn't watch today's game yet, but we also didn't have Son and Kane in that team. They are just of a different ilk and you don't have SH or WH first half if you don't have Kane and Son. I would gather we played another side that was willing to defend and we struggled to pick them apart.

We can't look like the WH or SH games week in and week out when the opposition sets up defensively. We have to learn how to break teams down and I think this does show how our depth is really all media hype.

Listing to the newest episode of TFCP, I loved hearing the talk about this being our best squad yet. I am hesitant to say such things because we are paper-thin in the midfield, lack a steady CB pairing, and have no creativity outside of Kane. That last line item can change if Lo Celso can remain healthy and get on form, but at this point, I am not counting on that.

 

[StripiestPilot]

9 changes is definitely too many for an away fixture but there was still enough quality on the pitch to win the game.

It was just a complacent performance, too many players who thought they didn‘t need to work hard to win. Nobody ever won a game of football by being lazy. Hard to believe some of them still don’t understand that.

 

[mikes01666]

You're literally just saying stuff hoping that repetition will get you through.....

It's called sticking to your opinions when you know others don't know better - no matter how much they witter on.

 

[Harrykane9]

Wouldn't read too much into tonight. Looked like 11 players thrown together. I understand why 9 changes was made. The squad depth is there but your squad is only as good as the players who are hungry to get into the first 11. We have that many options I'm sure a fair few know they are squad players or not even that and a real lack of motivation can occur. A few also are searching for match fitness which is clear.

 

[Nuts]

Just one of those evenings. The alchemy didn't work. We didn't work. Shit happens. It's small fry compared to how crap I felt after the Newcastle or WH results. It's our first loss since the start of the season.

Wake the f up lads and vent your fury on Brighton with a 5 goal classic.

 

[Airfixx]

9 changes is definitely too many for an away fixture but there was still enough quality on the pitch to win the game.

It was just a complacent performance, too many players who thought they didn‘t need to work hard to win. Nobody ever won a game of football by being lazy. Hard to believe some of them still don’t understand that.

That's what pissed me off... I can handle playing shit and/or getting beat.... It happens, but too many players out there had points to prove and positions to battle for yet came up empty. This wasn't like when Poch threw the likes of Naughton, Holtby, Townsend, Carrol & Mason to the slaughter against Dortmund.... There was sufficient quality out there.

I felt Jose's subs were rash and somewhat knee-jerk too.

 

[Airfixx]

Wouldn't read too much into tonight. Looked like 11 players thrown together. I understand why 9 changes was made. The squad depth is there but your squad is only as good as the players who are hungry to get into the first 11. We have that many options I'm sure a fair few know they are squad players or not even that and a real lack of motivation can occur. A few also are searching for match fitness which is clear.

That's a twisted, bullshit mentality (on their part... If true).

 

[Airfixx]

It's called sticking to your opinions when you know others don't know better - no matter how much they witter on.

Sorry fella... Oblivious to it or not, you've just had your 'opinion' (the right to which, of course, it's your perogative to cling to if you're so inclined) systematically decimated by reality..... Still, call it wittering if it makes you feel better.

The crap you're talking in terms of rotation is frankly laughable.

 

[bunburyist]

I felt Jose's subs were rash and somewhat knee-jerk too.

There’s a bit of me that think Jose was up to something tonight. The drastic subs, the sullen social media post....I wonder that he isn’t trying to either make a point to the players or more likely, to Levy.

 

[Bill Madrid]

Hairy’s Post Match Thoughts

1. God awful. Should have been 4 or 5- nil. Hard to figure this squad out

2. This team has a hard time keeping the ball on the ground and making accurate passes. Lots of 10-15 yd passes end up in the air. Attack killers.

3. Interested to see Davies at CB. Interest waned quickley.

4. Crosses weren’t bad we’re just not getting on the end of them.

5. Bale seemed to have disappeared for stretches. Didn’t realize he was in for a while.

6. We need Lucas and Lamela’s enthusiasm and energy spread throughout the team. If only they’re talent matched.

7. The good news is this debacle should not matter in the big picture. Still should get through, and perhaps win the group.

8. Dele

1. That's weird. They were outstanding in defence
2. True
3. True, but everyone was saying he was the answer on the left side of central defence. So either we were wrong or he just had a bad game
4. True. Everyone was to blame here, Kane included
5. 100% true
6. 100%. Especially the latter
7. Absolutely
8. I didn't think he was that bad as it goes. Or Lo Celso. Or, especially, Vini. I think, in this case, Mourinho had as ba game as the rest did.

Oh, and fuck off all those blaming Winks.

 

[Paul Gascoigne]

We've thrown a bunch of talented players together for this one, but they haven't really played together. The performance was bad not because they are bad individual players, but the teamwork and organisation weren't there.

I think the lesson is that we can't rotate so many players, we need to keep a few key experienced players/leaders, particularly in the 'spine' and we didn't have enough of those out there tonight. No Toby/Dier, Hojbjerg/Sissoko, Kane/Son. These are guys we need to rest, but not all at the same time.

Jose must acknowledge that the team he put out hasn't played a lot together, and so might not gel instantly, but despite his 'blame me' line, everything else he said after the game sounded more like 'blame the players'. He needs to be careful as he has form in publically criticising his players and it rarely seems to pay off. There's a long season ahead and we need the whole squad together.

Whoa ! Talented players ? Did you watch the 1st half ? Reminded me of Iceland !

 

[Paul Gascoigne]

1. That's weird. They were outstanding in defence
2. True
3. True, but everyone was saying he was the answer on the left side of central defence. So either we were wrong or he just had a bad game
4. True. Everyone was to blame here, Kane included
5. 100% true
6. 100%. Especially the latter
7. Absolutely
8. I didn't think he was that bad as it goes. Or Lo Celso. Or, especially, Vini. I think, in this case, Mourinho had as ba game as the rest did.

Oh, and fuck off all those blaming Winks.

Outstanding defence ? Time for Specsavers!

 

[The Outsider]

The problem was in the heads - turned up expecting to win and were never competitive - the difference between the level of intensity against Burnley and today was staggering ... LoCelso and Bergwijn a massive step down from Hojbjerg and Ndombele, this left the fringe players Dele, Bale, Vinicius chasing shadows.

Didn't agree with the wholesale changes at half-time, let the eleven players who got us 1-0 down dig us out, of course Jose wants the win but maybe playing the long game would have been better.

All in all the result shouldn't matter, we will likely still win the group or at worst come second ... either way we will still qualify ... this was a lesson in complacency, sadly a lesson we don't seem to learn ...

 

[Lozza]

I don't believe anyone would expect all these individuals to click. It's more about the lack of desire to at least doing the basic thing right.

Davies had all the blame for his mess up, but in the bigger picture, it's lack of support that is the issue. Just help provide passing options. Pass it safely. We could have held out for 0-0. In short if you can't win it, at least trying to not lose it.

To dare is to do, or not...

 

[ryuzakiluke100]

To dare is to do, or not...

Not even dare to turn up, to do the basic thing

 

[Bill Madrid]

So here's my take. Jose said that it was a risky line up. He was right, it's easy to say with hindsight (and let's not forget, when the line-up was announced, people were unanimously positive, apart from maybe Hugo in goal). It was clear in the first half that it didn't gel. I doubt that anyone knows why exactly, and I imagine Jose will be asking himself a shitload of questions. He strikes me as a man who is intensely self-critical. Whatever.

So then, after a poor first half, he makes four changes (maybe in retrospect, that was too many? Who knows). And yes, we looked a very different team in the second half. My problem with that was that I thought Lo Celso and Vini looked liked our better players in the first 45. Whatever, clearly Jose had a plan, a shape in mind, and it sort of worked, we looked a lot better in the first part of the second half, but that sort of petered out as well. Which is what I don't get. You can blame the usuals - Winks (who I thought had a decent game, although I doubt anyone will agree), Sánchez, Davies, Aurier, pick your scapegoat), but the fact is that Kane and Son were every bit as poor as Bale, Dele and the aforementioned had been. Lamela won the ball enthusiasically and then lost it, Lucas too...

So I would say, asd I've said before, the responsiblity lies across the board, no one escapes. Thankfully, it's not a season-defining defeat, but one we certainly have to learn from sharpish

 

[Bill Madrid]

Outstanding defence ? Time for Specsavers!

What, Antwerp's back three? They were fantastic. De Laet was a man possessed, he was head and shouders the man of the match. What game were you watching?

 

[Deckard]

So here's my take. Jose said that it was a risky line up. He was right, it's easy to say with hindsight (and let's not forget, when the line-up was announced, people were unanimously positive, apart from maybe Hugo in goal). It was clear in the first half that it didn't gel. I doubt that anyone knows why exactly, and I imagine Jose will be asking himself a shitload of questions. He strikes me as a man who is intensely self-critical. Whatever.

So then, after a poor first half, he makes four changes (maybe in retrospect, that was too many? Who knows). And yes, we looked a very different team in the second half. My problem with that was that I thought Lo Celso and Vini looked liked our better players in the first 45. Whatever, clearly Jose had a plan, a shape in mind, and it sort of worked, we looked a lot better in the first part of the second half, but the it sort of petered out as well. Which is what I don't get. You cam blame the usuals - Winks (who I thought had a decent game, althoughI doubt anyone will agree), Sánchez, Davies, Aurier, pick your scapegoat), but hthe fact is that Kane and Son were every bit as poor as Bale, Dele and the forementioned had been. Lamela won the ball enthusiasically and then lost it, Lucas too...

So I would say, asd I've said before, the responsiblitity lies across the board, no one escapes. Thankfully, it's not a season-defining defeat, but one we certainly have to learn from sharpish

Great post. I agree with everything you are saying