BOUNCEBACKAGEDDON: Tottenham Hotspur vs Nottingham Forest (Wed 24th September)

[Yorkshire_Spurs]

If a team comes and sits deep 442 the shit out of them.

Whether that is starting 4231 and instructing, say one of the three to play directly alongside the striker and the other 2 drop to the wings, rather than starting the game 442.

4231 doesn't seem to break down the teams that set up well. Chelsea can do it, but they have much better players at their disposal.

City play 2 up top. It works.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

If a team comes and sits deep 442 the shit out of them.

Whether that is starting 4231 and instructing, say one of the three to play directly alongside the striker and the other 2 drop to the wings, rather than starting the game 442.

4231 doesn't seem to break down the teams that set up well. Chelsea can do it, but they have much better players at their disposal.

City play 2 up top. It works.

If the only goal is more strikers, then go 4-3-3 and use 3 strikers. It's just a matter of having guys going into the box on the attack and making life difficult for the defence with off-the-ball movement. Pochettino has a history of using his LW for that, and Chadli/Kane seem to be getting it.

 

[1882]

Jesus wept, look at Soldado hitting the post there at the end...

Has anyone thought he might have been AIMING for the post...?
...in which case, you try it in front of 30,000+ people!! The man's a genius!!

 

[Yorkshire_Spurs]

If the only goal is more strikers, then go 4-3-3 and use 3 strikers. It's just a matter of having guys going into the box on the attack and making life difficult for the defence with off-the-ball movement. Pochettino has a history of using his LW for that, and Chadli/Kane seem to be getting it.

Something like this...?

-----------------Lloris
Naughton Kaboul Vertonghen Rose
-----Capoue Eriksen Stambouli
-----Lamela Soldado Adebayor

Gives you options. Lamela could drop off for 442.

Eriksen could push forward with Lamela and Adey with Soldado up to for 4231.

 

[Mick Cooper]

I do not understand for the life of me why Townsend (and others, such as Rose) persist in this idiotic idea that running into a corner and crossing the ball is a good way to get the ball to the striker. It isn't. It's the dumbest idea possible, and against WBA and Forest it was killing out attack. The ball needs to go forward through the middle, either on the deck, or chipped over the top. Every time we do that, our strikers are much more dangerous as they have something to work with. It's also what Pochettino's been banging on about the whole time in his "philosophy." I suspect going forward, those who figure that out get to start, and those who don't will wind up being sold.

errm sorry old chap - but WALOB.
Banging high balls into a striker dwarfed by giants is wasteful
but well placed crosses from a winger who drags defenders out wide, opens gaps in the penalty area for a good striker, or late arriving midfielders to profit from.
To dismiss it and say that everything has to be played to feet through the middle is an asinine way of looking at attacking a team. A one dimensional strategy of that nature would be massively easy to defeat.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

If the only goal is more strikers, then go 4-3-3 and use 3 strikers. It's just a matter of having guys going into the box on the attack and making life difficult for the defence with off-the-ball movement. Pochettino ha`s a history of using his LW for that, and Chadli seems to be getting it.

Something like this...?

-----------------Lloris
Naughton Kaboul Vertonghen Rose
-----Capoue Eriksen Stambouli
-----Lamela Soldado Adebayor

Gives you options. Lamela could drop off for 442.

Eriksen could push forward with Lamela and Adey with Soldado up to for 4231.

Perhaps, I'd rather Chadli though as Adebayor is terrible at staying in position. I don't think moving him from striker to LW would stop him from completely refusing to play in position.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

errm sorry old chap - but WALOB.
Banging high balls into a striker dwarfed by giants is wasteful
but well placed crosses from a winger who drags defenders out wide, opens gaps in the penalty area for a good striker, or late arriving midfielders to profit from.
To dismiss it and say that everything has to be played to feet through the middle is an asinine way of looking at attacking a team. A one dimensional strategy of that nature would be massively easy to defeat.

The least successful shot in football is a header coming from a cross. The second least successful any other kind of header. The third is a shot from a cross. It does not pay off. The best chances, by a long way, come off throughballs through the middle. We should be focusing on trying to do that as soon as we win the ball. Look at Lamela's assist to Kane, or to Soldado against Limerssol, or look at how Dortmund play. Fast passes to the strikers feet, though the middle. It won't come off every time, but it's a much higher risk/reward than crossing. Under all circumstances. It's not that crossing won't happen at all, but relying on it to create stuff is a very low success strategy. We've seen that in how Spurs have performed in the last couple of games, as well. We've done a bunch of crosses. None came off. We've attempted many fewer balls through the middle, but even excluding Soldado's fixing of Townsend's error, we've been more successful (Kane's goal).

 

[Nick "Trevor" Sharp]

So... did we bounce back, or not?

 

[Juicy Sushi]

So... did we bounce back, or not?

Yes, but the eleven guys who started the game did not.

 

[Mick Cooper]

The least successful shot in football is a header coming from a cross. The second least successful any other kind of header. The third is a shot from a cross. It does not pay off. The best chances, by a long way, come off throughballs through the middle. We should be focusing on trying to do that as soon as we win the ball. Look at Lamela's assist to Kane, or to Soldado against Limerssol, or look at how Dortmund play. Fast passes to the strikers feet, though the middle. It won't come off every time, but it's a much higher risk/reward than crossing. Under all circumstances. It's not that crossing won't happen at all, but relying on it to create stuff is a very low success strategy. We've seen that in how Spurs have performed in the last couple of games, as well. We've done a bunch of crosses. None came off. We've attempted many fewer balls through the middle, but even excluding Soldado's fixing of Townsend's error, we've been more successful (Kane's goal).

its still bollocks, no matter how many times you say it
sorry. Bad theory

 

[Juicy Sushi]

its still bollocks, no matter how many times you say it
sorry. Bad theory

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't find crossing to be a worthwhile idea.

 

[Mick Cooper]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't find crossing to be a worthwhile idea.

we will that - I have watched far too much football, with far too many goals scored from well executed wing play, and the whole idea of putting right footers on the left wing and vice versa simply crowds everything into a narrow and congested channel where its a struggle to play through.
I agree that shit wing play from poor crosses is a waste of time, but we have two strikers who profit from wing play, Ade from headed crosses (although after sunday that's in doubt) and Soldado who is known to thrive on a supply line (on the deck) of that nature. Soldado is being made to look a useless cunt by having a shit source of supply - then he gets hammered for going out to the wings for the ball, as he never sees it from this inverted winger shit.

 

[Yorkshire_Spurs]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't find crossing to be a worthwhile idea.

I get that perhaps they are not effective.

But there is nothing wrong with mixing it up a little.

Attack through the middle then when they are compact to defend this go down the wings.

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

we will that - I have watched far too much football, with far too many goals scored from well executed wing play, and the whole idea of putting right footers on the left wing and vice versa simply crowds everything into a narrow and congested channel where its a struggle to play through.
I agree that shit wing play from poor crosses is a waste of time, but we have two strikers who profit from wing play, Ade from headed crosses (although after sunday that's in doubt) and Soldado who is known to thrive on a supply line (on the deck) of that nature. Soldado is being made to look a useless cunt by having a shit source of supply - then he gets hammered for going out to the wings for the ball, as he never sees it from this inverted winger shit.

They do better when the supply is coming from throughballs, rather than crosses. Townsend, Lennon and Paulinho apparently don't know what those are, however, or feel they're somebody else's problem.

 

[Mick Cooper]

They do better when the supply is coming from throughballs, rather than crosses. Townsend, Lennon and Paulinho apparently don't know what those are, however, or feel they're somebody else's problem.

because they are being played on the wrong wings
its not difficult to grasp

 

[Juicy Sushi]

because they are being played on the wrong wings
its not difficult to grasp

It's not a wing issue, it's a player issue. Andros Townsend does not do anything other than shot or cross, regardless of his position on the pitch. Lennon does not play throughballs either, and Paulinho, well, I'm not sure anyone knows exactly what he does, other than play like a 5-year old.

 

[theflaccidcock]

The Forest fans were doing the fucking gas chamber hissing nonsense. Death is seriously too good for them. I was up for a really good cup game last night but as soon as that started I just wanted them all to drown in a vat of their own pikey midlands vomit. We'll be seeing a lot of them on Jeremy Kyle and The Worlds Craziest Police Chases soon I would imagine. What a bunch of cunts. I hope their collective heads explode.

Hello, Forest fan in peace here. I came onto the forum as I'm friends with a Spurs fan who recommended the podcast. I went to the game last night and just wanted to reply to this post as no Forest fans were making any 'gas chamber hissing'. You probably mistook a chant that went along the lines of: 'can you hear the Tottenham sing? I can't hear a fucking thing SHHHHHHHH'. The shush sound had nothing to do with gas chambers, it was just mocking your fans for being so quiet.

 

[Mick Cooper]

It's not a wing issue, it's a player issue. Andros Townsend does not do anything other than shot or cross, regardless of his position on the pitch. Lennon does not play throughballs either, and Paulinho, well, I'm not sure anyone knows exactly what he does, other than play like a 5-year old.

you introduced Paulinho into the argument, its lost on me given the subject.
I now have no idea of what you are trying to say TBH. I think we both agreed to disagree though.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

you introduced Paulinho into the argument, its lost on me given the subject.
I now have no idea of what you are trying to say TBH. I think we both agreed to disagree though.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree with buying of virtual pints all 'round.

 

[DeadlyDemon]

A bit of a frustrating night on all parts. First and foremost the performance which wasn't good enough until we went behind, didn't look like scoring until Mason's blinder. For whatever reason it seemed to deflate Forest's players and fans.

Also a frustrating atmosphere. It shouldn't solely be down to 1882 to try and create a positive atmosphere. Credit to those that did sing but block 35 were outnumbered by the noisy Forest fans and it was telling in the end.
If you get the rest of the Park Lane/corner of the Shelf singing then we may well have given them a decent atmosphere but for the most part it was fighting a losing battle, Forest completely drowned out our little vocal support.
Admittedly this one was quite last minute but even a good number in block 35 had little interest in creating an atmosphere last night.

Disappointing.
On a positive note we're in to the next round and have lower league opposition at home again so a decent chance of progressing to the next round.