Champions League finalists Liverpool and Tottenham now worlds apart

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Liverpool spent 75M on a 27yr old CB with 3 international caps

Spurs spent 1bn on a new ground

I wonder which investment will still be valid in two years
To be be fair Sammy their stadium is pretty good and far more iconic.
They don't need a billion pound stadium but they needed a world class CB.
Personally dude l would say they got it right.
Champs of the world doesn't lie brother.
 
Spurs fans should fear four years of Mourinho’s small-minded cynicism
Desperate negativity of his approach to playing Liverpool at home is José Mourinho’s management style in microcosm

Jonathan Liew

For around half an hour on Saturday evening Liverpool looked flawed. Roared on by a capacity crowd, Tottenham slung themselves forward in waves – attacking the spaces, pinging crosses across the box, getting shots away. The substitutes Giovani Lo Celso and Érik Lamela grabbed control of the game in the middle third, often by sheer force of will alone. The irrepressible Lucas Moura scrapped and slalomed his way into threatening positions. Big chances came and went.

And then it was all over. Liverpool sauntered off the pitch, their work complete, their lead at the top of the Premier League looking more ridiculously impregnable with every passing week.

José Mourinho talked about having a “good feeling” from the game, claiming that his team deserved at least a draw and based on those last 20 minutes he had a decent case. It was almost enough to make you wonder how Tottenham might have fared had they decided to play for the full 90.

After all, the chaotic denouement was merely the final act of a game in which Spurs had been at best partial protagonists. In a way that late flurry merely illustrated the folly of their initial approach: cagey and closed, low and deep, spurning possession and inviting pressure. Their first-half possession was 27%. Son Heung-min, their best attacking player, did not have a single touch in the Liverpool half between the 30th minute and the 60th. None of which would stop Mourinho attempting to spin this basic poverty of ambition as some ingenious masterplan.



“If we tried to play the way we did in the last 20 minutes from the beginning,” he said, “I think we would collapse. Because the players are not used to playing in this style and they are not adapted. We did the maximum we could do.”

This is the founding principle of Mourinho-ball: the opposition are infinitely strong, we are infinitely weak. Already in his short Tottenham career Mourinho has told Moussa Sissoko that he lacks the discipline to play in central midfield, accused Ryan Sessegnon of lacking physicality, criticised Tanguy Ndombele for getting injured too much and claimed that Tottenham cannot play their normal game while Harry Kane is injured, even though they managed to reach a Champions League final without him.

In essence it’s a form of managerial negging: chipping away at the self-esteem of the club until it is no longer able to resist the twin lures of Mourinho’s silver-tongued genius and his lavish demands for transfer investment.

Admittedly this is a far easier sell when you are playing a Liverpool side that had 58 points in 20 games, boasting the triple threat of Sadio Mané, Roberto Firmino and Mohamed Salah. Admittedly Mourinho has had some past success in nullifying the threat of Salah. Alas, leaving him on the bench at Stamford Bridge for a year and then sending him on loan to Fiorentina is no longer a viable option. And so in the face of Liverpool’s famous front three, Mourinho offered up a jaunty bespoke solution: a double right-back, with Serge Aurier playing just ahead of the 20-year-old debutant Japhet Tanganga.

Like many of Mourinho’s wheezes these days it was both imaginative and desperately cynical, a strategy geared towards containment that ultimately worked for only as long as it took for the novelty to wear off.

Around half an hour in, Gini Wijnaldum began to push a little higher, restoring Liverpool’s numerical superiority on the left, and two clear openings came from that flank before the throw-in that produced Firmino’s goal.

Liverpool could have been out of sight by the time Lo Celso and Lamela arrived with 20 minutes to go: a £90m double substitution that is worth bearing in mind the next time Mourinho moans about the lack of resources available to him.

In a way it scarcely matters that Mourinho’s tactics almost worked or that they ultimately didn’t. The point is that Tottenham – a team that reached a Champions League final seven months ago and have spent much of the past few years playing some of the most scintillating attacking football in the club’s history – is already being recast in his image.

Excuses are beginning to supplant expectations. A culture of pessimism and restraint is taking hold, when losing 1-0 at home with 33% possession can legitimately be sold as an encouraging sign of progress. The motto of the new Tottenham may as well be “To Play Two Right-Backs Is To Do”.

It took Mauricio Pochettino half a decade to purge Tottenham of their jaded mid-table mentality and even the mediocre Spurs sides of the 1990s would always have a go at home, no matter how strong the opposition, however low the morale of the club.

This is the legacy that Mourinho is busily sweeping aside. He narrows your horizons, convinces you not to get ideas above your station, warns you to stop the opposition first and only then to think about playing. All this has taken him eight weeks. Imagine what he can do in four years.

Neatly ignores the fact that Mourinho's hopeless grasp of tactics have won his teams over twenty trophies .. but what do trophies matter?

Jonathan Liew is to football what a turd is to a pool party .... simply not pleasant at all.
 
To be be fair Sammy their stadium is pretty good and far more iconic.
They don't need a billion pound stadium but they needed a world class CB.
Personally dude l would say they got it right.
Champs of the world doesn't lie brother.
They got it right but they also got the choice of manager right.
Klopp would have won stuff with our squad.

Poch would have had Salah in central midfield
 
Don't care how good they are, still can't stand the team, the manager or their supporters.

Yep. Oh and add to this list their cheerleaders in the media.

It's all very nauseating.

Also, I think they're very good BUT the standard of the PL this season is very poor. It's not a vintage year, even Citeh have struggled.

I'm looking forward to seeing Atletico knock them out of the CL. That will be nice.
 
Last edited:
I suspect if we'd had Klopp since 2015, we'd be a lot further ahead than we are now...

As people have said, we don't pay Liverpool level wages, but then we could have afforded Salah, Trent and Robertson have obviously been on low wages and whilst Mane chose them over us, it's not like we're miles behind them because Son, Kane and Alli/Eriksen/Moura has been a shit front three option.

Selling someone who didn't want to be there anymore (Coutinho) at maximum value and using the cash to sign the best CB in world football was massive.

But fundamentally, again, had Klopp been here since 2015, I think we'd be further ahead. Love him or hate him, he's an incredible operator.
 
Why? We wouldn't have provided him with his key targets. Moreover, the players he wanted would have likely rejected Spurs (see De Jong).

He wouldn't have got us to where Liverpool are now, but I suspect we'd be further ahead.

He's clearly just a bloody good manager... wouldn't have been moaning, would've had us playing attacking, positive football, clearly good in the transfer market, clearly good at spotting a young player, has massive levels of natural authority and enthusiasm.

Put a great manager/CEO/leader whatever into a situation and they will progress things more than someone who isn't as good. That's my point.

Yes he'd have had problems with wages, maybe with Levy etc but then he might well have adapted and found other solutions.

Again - I'm not saying we'd be champions of europe or where Liverpool are now, but Klopp is clearly special and I suspect we'd be further ahead than where we are now.
 
This gap stuff between the clubs is just guff stuff and ultimately pointless to make. Why? Because EVERY Club is Worlds apart from Liverpool are they not?

Football is cyclical, different clubs are in different periods of evolvement than each other, some with new managers, others not. With each change, there are good hires and others that didn't work out. With every change there a possible change in philosophy. Others with different financial backing and environments. Some steadily improving others declining. For some clubs like Chavs, they yo-yo from winning the title to 10th to winning it again, to 5th!

Ignore the nonsense and focus on Tottenham. Where are we at? What are we trying to do? Are we close to achieving what we set out to do, or are we far away from it? What direction are we currently travelling in? What's needed to get to where we want to be? These are the only things the Club can control and the only things as fans we should be concerned with. Anything else is just noise.
 
oh look, the happy clappers who can't face the truth are crying and pissing in their little panties.

ban him! he said a bad thing!!

Then use words like cunt, mug, wanker etc to make yourselves feel better.

Every word I said is true. ACCEPT IT.
 
They got it right but they also got the choice of manager right.
Klopp would have won stuff with our squad.

Poch would have had Salah in central midfield

Poch would've demotivated Salah with his constant belittling of the club and the mission in the press. Salah would've been pushing for a move whereas he would run through brick walls for Klopp.
 
Poch would've demotivated Salah with his constant belittling of the club and the mission in the press. Salah would've been pushing for a move whereas he would run through brick walls for Klopp.
Robertson would be back at Hull on a five year loan, Arnold playing PlayStation at home every Saturday, Henderson the occasional RB, Lallana in the hole and Mane getting 4 minute cameos
 
clearly good at spotting a young player

I don't think that was down to Klopp. It's Liverpool's scouting team that are better and/or have lucked out.

I think people are quick to overlook just how much luck plays in transfers. Did Liverpool *really* know that Robertson and Alexander Arnold were going to turn into arguably the best FBs in Europe?

Anyway, yes, he's a good manager. But there's no way he'd have us playing pressing football with our knackered old cart horses.
 
I don't think that was down to Klopp. It's Liverpool's scouting team that are better and/or have lucked out.

I think people are quick to overlook just how much luck plays in transfers. Did Liverpool *really* know that Robertson and Alexander Arnold were going to turn into arguably the best FBs in Europe?

Anyway, yes, he's a good manager. But there's no way he'd have us playing pressing football with our knackered old cart horses.

I agree/take your points.

I guess I'm saying re Robertson/Trent he got them playing well though didn't he? He might have had Foyth and Sanchez playing as the best two CBs in Europe right now, or Winks scoring goals/assists or Skipp looking like a future club legend.

Not sure what he would've done, but I suspect he'd have won something and I suspect we'd be in the top four right now with a better outlook as a result of his tenure.
 
Back
Top Bottom