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A. the st. george is not a symbol of the british empire, was used centuries before and not only by English people
B. when british empire committed said atrocities it wasn't the st. George waving from HM's ships.
C. the ideology that drove colonialism was mistaken but not outright evil, morality is not determined only by consequences but also by intentions. Colonialism was bad, but that we judge in hindsight, Nazism was bad and it was reasonably known at the time so we could have judged it ex ante.
The George's Cross is slap bang in the middle of the Union Jack, and was a symbol of the National Front and later the EDL. It is also a military symbol, and linked to the crusades (imperialism).

I don't think that the atrocities carried out in the name of colonialism can be normalised in the way you suggest. In fact, it's absurd of you to do so. To say the imperialists were somehow unaware that what they were doing was wrong is disingenuous; sailing somewhere, taking control through force, and killing all opposition is only mistaken?

The Nazis thought they were doing the right thing too. If they'd have won, people would be saying that it was mistaken, but that we shouldn't judge with hindsight. Don't forget that history is the account of the victors in most cases.

But anyway, don't you wish Woolwich would do something embarrassing so that we can laugh at them a bit?
 

Dubaijim

Supporter
Video James Referee
But, technically, the Union Jack is itself a symbolic record of foreign conquest and subjugation.

:hugoshock:

But in all seriousness, if you want a flag then get a flag. If you don’t care, then don’t care. People getting bent over cloth is silly.
That’s not what your priest said....

God damnit, the depression lifts and all I see are crappy jokes.....
 
The George's Cross is slap bang in the middle of the Union Jack, and was a symbol of the National Front and later the EDL. It is also a military symbol, and linked to the crusades (imperialism).

I don't think that the atrocities carried out in the name of colonialism can be normalised in the way you suggest. In fact, it's absurd of you to do so. To say the imperialists were somehow unaware that what they were doing was wrong is disingenuous; sailing somewhere, taking control through force, and killing all opposition is only mistaken?

The Nazis thought they were doing the right thing too. If they'd have won, people would be saying that it was mistaken, but that we shouldn't judge with hindsight. Don't forget that history is the account of the victors in most cases.

But anyway, don't you wish Woolwich would do something embarrassing so that we can laugh at them a bit?
What I meant to say is that all those people thought that they were doing those bad things for noble reasons. In the case of British colonialism and naziism, that is predicated on white supremacy.
 
Your comments are moving further along the ridiculous spectrum. You're speaking on behalf of indigenous people about something you clearly cannot comprehend *and* you seem to believe that only indigenous people should be offended by such a matter.
I think you misunderstood my initial comment.
It is impossible to comprehend what happened to the Aboriginal people during the foundation of Australia.

But where did I mention that it was indigenous people getting offended in my original post?
And where did I speak on behalf of the Aboriginal people?
What I was doing was trying to compare the situation in Australia with that in the UK.
It is actually foreign cultures within Australia that have an issue with the flag.

My original post was a reply to a comment where someone mentioned they were not aware of any other countries in which this happened other than the UK, I gave an answer to indicate otherwise.
Not sure why you went off on one...
 
I think you misunderstood my initial comment.
It is impossible to comprehend what happened to the Aboriginal people during the foundation of Australia.

But where did I mention that it was indigenous people getting offended in my original post?
And where did I speak on behalf of the Aboriginal people?
What I was doing was trying to compare the situation in Australia with that in the UK.
It is actually foreign cultures within Australia that have an issue with the flag.

My original post was a reply to a comment where someone mentioned they were not aware of any other countries in which this happened other than the UK, I gave an answer to indicate otherwise.
Not sure why you went off on one...

It's because you mentioned Australia day and said that people had been accused of being too patriotic.

The issue with Australia day isn't about people flying the Australian flag and offending recent immigrants. It's the day itself and what it represents. January 26 1788 isn't the day Australia was founded. It's when the first fleet arrived and effectively invaded the country. This is seen as a controversial date by many because it signals the beginning of the Aboriginal genocide by the British.

Hence the change the date movement and yearly invasion day protests that take place.
 
It's because you mentioned Australia day and said that people had been accused of being too patriotic.

The issue with Australia day isn't about people flying the Australian flag and offending recent immigrants. It's the day itself and what it represents. January 26 1788 isn't the day Australia was founded. It's when the first fleet arrived and effectively invaded the country. This is seen as a controversial date by many because it signals the beginning of the Aboriginal genocide by the British.

Hence the change the date movement and yearly invasion day protests that take place.

Right, my mistake I can see how my mentioning of Australia Day brought in the assumption that I was referencing that.
My reasoning for mentioning Australia Day was the common occurrence of the Australian flag being flown everywhere in turn producing an increase in upset and me then creating affiliation between the day and the concerns.
 
Looks like they chose to do it in Leicester Square .
Must have thought there more of a fan base there than Chapel Market.
Used to work on my cousins stall in Chapel Street Market back in the mid 80s, well, I say work, we used to spend most of the day in the snooker hall at the bottom of the road while his wife looked after the stall.
:levyeyes:
 

Bazali

🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦
I get that its all part of the fun when it comes to sporting events, the royal weddings and stuff.

Im just a bit weary of 'flag waving' without occasion altogether, but when it comes to the kind of huge feckin military-style mast i can see from my bedroom window it seems a bit extreme and somewhat in ones face.


Have to agree

Any sort of ultra nationalism makes me uneasy

I used to own property in Turkey and one of the ex pats, a Scouser, erected a Union Jack one day

After an early morning visit from the Gendarme it was removed never to reappear
Basically he was told what country he was in and it wouldn’t be tolerated
Shit himself apparently
Couldn’t stand the cunt but I feel that way about most gobby Scousers
 
As others have posted most of the ' controversy' is dreamed up by journalists and white middle class types with their PC agenda who like to get offended and bleat about on behalf of everyone with a brown or black face, people then get wound up actually believing it

One bloke who lives near me has a st George flag on his car, his mum is from barbados, the seiks who run the local shop have a flag in their window as well......just a shame they support Liverpool but I have enjoyed going in their shop recently!!!

Guess for journalists these examples are not as exciting to report about!!
I've seen England flags sold in my local Islamic shop.
 
A. the st. george is not a symbol of the british empire, was used centuries before and not only by English people
B. when british empire committed said atrocities it wasn't the st. George waving from HM's ships.
C. the ideology that drove colonialism was mistaken but not outright evil, morality is not determined only by consequences but also by intentions. Colonialism was bad, but that we judge in hindsight, Nazism was bad and it was reasonably known at the time so we could have judged it ex ante.
Shhh. People will think Georgia is mega evil.

georgia-flag-std_1.jpg
 
A. the st. george is not a symbol of the british empire, was used centuries before and not only by English people
B. when british empire committed said atrocities it wasn't the st. George waving from HM's ships.
C. the ideology that drove colonialism was mistaken but not outright evil, morality is not determined only by consequences but also by intentions. Colonialism was bad, but that we judge in hindsight, Nazism was bad and it was reasonably known at the time so we could have judged it ex ante.
:pochshock2:

I’m pretty sure the natives who were being pushed off their land, enslaved, and murdered as Europeans strutted about the world with a thirst for conquest and natural resource thievery thought that colonialism was pretty fucking evil at the time.
 
:pochshock2:

I’m pretty sure the natives who were being pushed off their land, enslaved, and murdered as Europeans strutted about the world with a thirst for conquest and natural resource thievery thought that colonialism was pretty fucking evil at the time.
Yeah but that happened everywhere throughout history ... just some were better at it than others
 
:pochshock2:

I’m pretty sure the natives who were being pushed off their land, enslaved, and murdered as Europeans strutted about the world with a thirst for conquest and natural resource thievery thought that colonialism was pretty fucking evil at the time.
The but of any atrocity would never have agreed. But in 1775 arguments for and against colonialism were sparse, there was no social cognition about the monstrosity of it.
When the Nazis came to power it was all accepted by everyone but their supporters they were repugnant
 
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