Controversial opinions about Spurs

[Deuterz]

The lack of appreciation for the ridiculous job Pochettino did under incredibly difficult circumstances is insane. Any of the elite managers who apparently would have won us the title would have walked if told they weren't getting signings for a whole year.

Love the man. The amount of players who improved significantly under him is stupidly impressive.

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

Him not wanting a DOF was a major downfall, that said I still find it a bit strange that some fans can speak down on him so freely, he wasn't without his faults but he made us into an absolute beast of a team and created a lot of memories.

Love the bloke best times as a spurs fan I remember. And I 100% thought he was the bloke who was gonna take us to the next level

Wouldn't want him back as manager though cause id know how it would end and know he's not

 

[Airfixx]

I think he should have remained this for longer.
We would have been a different team.
He lost it to an extent after the first two years
And lost it altogether at the end.

OG Poch (and his staunch values) was over the day he allowed Rose to mug us off without reprisal..... Further signaled by the way he was happy to shrug off Toby & Eriksen's deteriorating commitment.

Compare that to how heavyweight he was in dealing with Andros.

 

[Airfixx]

The lack of appreciation for the ridiculous job Pochettino did under incredibly difficult circumstances is insane. Any of the elite managers who apparently would have won us the title would have walked if told they weren't getting signings for a whole year.

Love the man. The amount of players who improved significantly under him is stupidly impressive.

No signs point to that being how it played out though.....

When you alienate the head scouts and go into a sulk over not getting an unavailable De Jong & De Ligt; you kinda reap what you sew.

He chose to leave money on the table and also declined loans for viable players in positions of need (eg Tielemans). Now maybe there's respectable logic behind him doing so, but he can't then play the victim.


He did a cracking job on the whole given how out-gunned we were financially, but he found himself with a golden gen. of players (in terms of raw materials) and is definitely not beyond critique/scrutiny.

 

[Deuterz]

No signs point to that being how it played out though.....

When you alienate the head scouts and go into a sulk over not getting an unavailable De Jong & De Ligt; you kinda reap what you sew.

He chose to leave money on the table and also declined loans for viable players in positions of need (eg Tielemans). Now maybe there's respectable logic behind him doing so, but he can't then play the victim.


He did a cracking job on the whole given how out-gunned we were financially, but he found himself with a golden gen. of players (in terms of raw materials) and is definitely not beyond critique/scrutiny.

He probably alienated the head scouts because he was getting a load of bargain bin rubbish. De Jong & De Ligt may have been a stretch, but the level of players we signed under Poch was pitiful. Here is Nkoudou, Janssen and Sissoko, now go win us a title .. yeah right. As for him alienating the scouts being why we signed nobody, we failed to get the likes of Grealish over the line.

He can. All coaches have a right to ask for players that fit the style. I highly doubt Poch was limiting his options to the top tier, but likely just didn't want more trash to fill the squad. He wanted quality, and aside from a couple of signings we weren't offering that.

If the critique is 'he wasn't perfect, but was still fucking brilliant' then sure, it's valid. If it's suggesting he did an under par job with us, it's utter nonsense and not worth reading. Man got us top 4 season after season during our austerity years and delivered us a CL final with a side which was lucky to get out the groups.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Lillywhite and navy blue is not the most exciting colour combination.

In color psychology, white showcases innocence, goodness, cleanliness, and humility. On the flip side it can also symbolise sterility and cold.

Dark blue shades are serious, representing stablity and conservatism.

We need better colours to represent 'to dare is to do'.

All our recent managers have worn the alternative colours of lighter blue and yellow. i think that should be our main strip, with the lillywhite and navy blue as the second strip...

Controversial enough?

Absolute tosh..... we've got the best kit colours, when the designers get it right it's cool as fuck.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

He probably alienated the head scouts because he was getting a load of bargain bin rubbish. De Jong & De Ligt may have been a stretch, but the level of players we signed under Poch was pitiful. Here is Nkoudou, Janssen and Sissoko, now go win us a title .. yeah right. As for him alienating the scouts being why we signed nobody, we failed to get the likes of Grealish over the line.

He can. All coaches have a right to ask for players that fit the style. I highly doubt Poch was limiting his options to the top tier, but likely just didn't want more trash to fill the squad. He wanted quality, and aside from a couple of signings we weren't offering that.

If the critique is 'he wasn't perfect, but was still fucking brilliant' then sure, it's valid. If it's suggesting he did an under par job with us, it's utter nonsense and not worth reading. Man got us top 4 season after season during our austerity years and delivered us a CL final with a side which was lucky to get out the groups.

ffs the Grealish bollocks is now an urban legend..... doesn't matter how many times you explain what happened, there's always another doofus comes along to berate Levy with it.

 

[Deuterz]

ffs the Grealish bollocks is now an urban legend..... doesn't matter how many times you explain what happened, there's always another doofus comes along to berate Levy with it.

Glad we've got a properly intelligent person like you to explain it.

I didn't say it was some huge failure at the club, I said it was a transfer we failed to get over the line, whilst having no alternatives. Clearly Pochettino wasn't only demanding top tier signings, he wanted talented players he could mould. Grealish was an example of that and we didn't get him.

Oh and Steve Bruce is a right 'doofus':

"It's fair to say we were in such a bad position financially that if Tottenham had have done their work early, then I’m sure he would have been a Tottenham player," said then-boss Bruce. "Before the takeover came in, everyone was for sale – that’s how difficult the situation was."

Just to clarify instead of doing work early, we were offering 5m + Onomah.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

I liked Tim Sherwood.

Met him on hols once and you could tell he loved being at the club. Plus he was one of the first to call out Levy for not giving Hod funds.

Did a lot of good for the club before stepping into being manager, probably knowing it would end the way it did. I would add this to Levy's long list of negatives.

After the AVB second season of anti football, it was great to see the team attacking again and we had some decent results.

 

[Shadydan]

I liked Tim Sherwood.

Met him on hols once and you could tell he loved being at the club. Plus he was one of the first to call out Levy for not giving Hod funds.

Did a lot of good for the club before stepping into being manager, probably knowing it would end the way it did. I would add this to Levy's long list of negatives.

After the AVB second season of anti football, it was great to see the team attacking again and we had some decent results.

Tim Sherwood was the Arcespace of Tottenham

 

[Airfixx]

He probably alienated the head scouts because he was getting a load of bargain bin rubbish. De Jong & De Ligt may have been a stretch, but the level of players we signed under Poch was pitiful. Here is Nkoudou, Janssen and Sissoko, now go win us a title .. yeah right. As for him alienating the scouts being why we signed nobody, we failed to get the likes of Grealish over the line.

It's been thrashed out over and over but, he'd been jockeying for more control over transfers since he arrived (thus the promotion and pay-rise in 17/18 shortly after the exit of Mitchel); ergo "Poor poch had players thrust upon him" doesn't wash.... Least of all cos we know how active he was in recruiting many of those that proved to be duds (including Jansen; who btw was a perfectly viable young prospect having just bossed it for AZ... Perfect profile for our bench.)

He can. All coaches have a right to ask for players that fit the style. I highly doubt Poch was limiting his options to the top tier, but likely just didn't want more trash to fill the squad. He wanted quality, and aside from a couple of signings we weren't offering that.

Reports at the time suggest otherwise.

Care to substantiate any of these or the above theories, "doubts" or "probabilities"?

If the critique is 'he wasn't perfect, but was still fucking brilliant' then sure, it's valid. If it's suggesting he did an under par job with us, it's utter nonsense and not worth reading. Man got us top 4 season after season during our austerity years and delivered us a CL final with a side which was lucky to get out the groups.

I'm not about to begrudge him due credit (of which there is plenty); but I'm pretty sure the thrust of my last post is perfectly clear.

 

[MemphisWill]

The lack of appreciation for the ridiculous job Pochettino did under incredibly difficult circumstances is insane. Any of the elite managers who apparently would have won us the title would have walked if told they weren't getting signings for a whole year.

Love the man. The amount of players who improved significantly under him is stupidly impressive.

This opinion drives me mad. Do you honestly believe at any point Poch was told he wasn't going to get new signings for a whole year?

The man was heavily vested in the blame for those two barren windows. It's fairly well agreed upon that he was selecting players that were very hard to land within the available budgets and being rigidly inflexible about acceptable alternatives.

He fought hard to be promoted from "head coach" to "manager"...and his reign started going off the rails pretty early into his "manager" period.

I love Poch, but he didn't do himself many favors the last half of his time at Spurs.

 

[Airfixx]

Glad we've got a properly intelligent person like you to explain it.

I didn't say it was some huge failure at the club, I said it was a transfer we failed to get over the line, whilst having no alternatives. Clearly Pochettino wasn't only demanding top tier signings, he wanted talented players he could mould. Grealish was an example of that and we didn't get him.

Oh and Steve Bruce is a right 'doofus':

"It's fair to say we were in such a bad position financially that if Tottenham had have done their work early, then I’m sure he would have been a Tottenham player," said then-boss Bruce. "Before the takeover came in, everyone was for sale – that’s how difficult the situation was."

Alternatives in that window.... You mean other than Ndombele & GLC whom we actually signed for a cool 100m?

Just to clarify instead of doing work early, we were offering 5m + Onomah.

The Onomah schtick comes from another time-frame entirely; not the summer of the AV takeover/promotion.

Also when you consider early doors that we'd probably stick a 10m pricetag on Onomah (as he was a fancied prospect to begin with); 15m for a just relegated Grealish isn't quite the derisory offer as some would like to make out.

 

[Deuterz]

It's been thrashed out over and over but, he'd been jockying for more control over tranfers since he arrived (thus the promotion and payrise in 17/18 shortly after the exit of Mitchel); ergo "Poor poch had players thrust upon him" doesn't wash.... Least of all cos we know how actuve he was in recruiting many of those that proved to be duds (includng Jansen; who was a perfectly viable young pospect having just bossed it for AZ... Perfect profile for our bench.)



Reports at the time suggest otherwise.

Care to substantiate any of these or the above theories, "doubts" or "probabilities"?



I'm not about to begrudge him due credit (of which there is plenty); but I'm pretty sure the thrust of my last post is perfectly clear.

Pochettino claims otherwise, and I believe him. He may have been able to make certain suggestions and give the nod, but certainly from what he says it sounds like his options were very limited and it was mostly a case of take this or nothing.

Tottenham boss Mauricio Pochettino says he receives unwarranted flak for failed buys - Sport360 News

Grealish was one example. Not top tier but talented, and clearly Poch wanted him. Believe he wanted Fernandes as well. Where are your reports he was demanding De Ligt or De Jong and nothing else? That would be an incredibly odd thing for a manager to do.

 

[Deuterz]

This opinion drives me mad. Do you honestly believe at any point Poch was told he wasn't going to get new signings for a whole year?

The man was heavily vested in the blame for those two barren windows. It's fairly well agreed upon that he was selecting players that were very hard to land within the available budgets and being rigidly inflexible about acceptable alternatives.

He fought hard to be promoted from "head coach" to "manager"...and his reign started going off the rails pretty early into his "manager" period.

I love Poch, but he didn't do himself many favors the last half of his time at Spurs.

Told? No. Led to believe he'd be backed with quality and then wasn't, because we went for someone like Grealish, wasted time and missed out? Yes. Sure there were other examples too. He probably wasn't interested in some of the 3rd rate cast offs the club would actually deliver him, and I don't blame him.

The 'available budgets' were laughable and insulting to him as a manager of a CL club.

Sure he made mistakes. But him being particular about signings is zero excuse for an entire year of no transfers. The club could at least have delivered him a singular player he approved in that time, there's no way his criteria was THAT strict.

 

[Deuterz]

Alternatives in that window.... You mean other than Ndombele & GLC?



The Onomah schtick comes from another time-frame entirely; not the summer of the AV takeover/promotion.

Also when you consider early doors that we'd probably stick a 10m pricetag on Onomah (as he was a fancied prospect to begin with); 15m for a just relegated Grealish isn't quite the derisory offer as some would like to make out.

Fernandes.

We had a chance to sign a big, English talent who was Poch approved, and we haggled over pennies for an entire window after not signing anyone, losing out because they got taken over.

 

[MemphisWill]

Told? No. Led to believe he'd be backed with quality and then wasn't, because we went for someone like Grealish, wasted time and missed out? Yes. Sure there were other examples too. He probably wasn't interested in some of the 3rd rate cast offs the club would actually deliver him, and I don't blame him.

The 'available budgets' were laughable and insulting to him as a manager of a CL club.

Sure he made mistakes. But him being particular about signings is zero excuse for an entire year of no transfers. The club could at least have delivered him a singular player he approved in that time, there's no way his criteria was THAT strict.

Pochettino was manager of the club that spent £42M on Davinson Sanchez, £31M on Moura, £66M on Ndombele.

This idea that Poch was being asked to win the PL with players bought off the scrap heap of Ligue 2 is just fucking absurd. He was given stringent budgets, and showed an equal inflexibility to alternatives to his primary targets. Together he and Levy made a rock and hard place tag team that failed to land players in two windows. Pretending it was all Levy and Poch was a victim is simply anti-ENIC rhetoric.

 

[Deuterz]

Pochettino was manager of the club that spent £42M on Davinson Sanchez, £31M on Moura, £66M on Ndombele.

This idea that Poch was being asked to win the PL with players bought off the scrap heap of Ligue 2 is just fucking absurd. He was given stringent budgets, and showed an equal inflexibility to alternatives to his primary targets. Together he and Levy made a rock and hard place tag team that failed to land players in two windows. Pretending it was all Levy and Poch was a victim is simply anti-ENIC rhetoric.

Lucas Moura was 23m. Ndombele was 53m, and only happened after we'd spent numerous windows with a negative or near negative net spend. Your record signing being a 42m young CB is not an impressive, big balls signing for a club expected to get top 4 in the Premier League.

He was predominantly asked to keep getting top 4 with low level signings, and the odd relatively big signing thrown in. Our wage and transfer budget compared to other top 4 rivals was low. His inflexibility was justified by a string of bad cheaper signings.

Poch may have had some responsibility, but it was the lesser half of that.

 

[Airfixx]

Fernandes.

Fernandes what?

Your prior post implied that as we didn't sign Grealish in 19/20 we ended up with nish. Which obviously isn't true.

We had a chance to sign a big, English talent who was Poch approved, and we haggled over pennies for an entire window after not signing anyone, losing out because they got taken over.

Mate - as I"ve already explained - you're conflating 2 different windows.

- Summer of no signings was 18/19 (when the rumoured 15m gross/Onomah offer took place).
- Takeover was 19/20 (the takeover happened mid window; clearly priority #1 was Ndombele so missing out in JG that window was just shitty luck).

 

[Deuterz]

Fernandes what?

Your prior post implied that as we didn't sign Grealish in 19/20 we ended up with nish. Which obviously isn't true.



Mate - as I"ve already explained - you're conflating 2 different windows.

- Summer of no signings was 18/19 (when the rumoured 15m gross/Onomah offer took place).
- Takeover was 19/20 (the takeover happened mid window; clearly priority #1 was Ndombele so missing out in JG that window was just shitty luck).

Yes, and this is when he was attainable. I wasn't even aware we were in for Grealish in 19/20 (I don't remember us revisiting the transfer?) and just remember the failed bids in 18/19, and then towards the end of the window they got taken over.

Maybe my dates are mixed up. All I can recall is a long pursuit, a lot of odd bids before finally deciding to put a decent amount on the table towards the end of the window, only for it to be too late.