Coronavirus Crisis

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Should we continue to have crowds at football stadiums?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 18.3%
  • No

    Votes: 76 81.7%

  • Total voters
    93

DTM

LAMBETHIAN YIDDO
I see no point trying to extricate the media from the government. The media - and, nowadays, the internet pseudo-monopolies, which means all the same people anyway - is the government and vice-versa. If the media conglomerates, of which there are really only four or five at the top level of the hierarchy in the entire English-speaking world, choose to combine their full power, they can guarantee any given sociopolitical outcome -- in exchange, the politico beneficiaries work for the business owners and their friends.

The lines between the historical "estates"/"columns" were blurred a long time ago and then eroded completely. The internet served as an information liberation front for a time - a brief interlude for us, and an extremely irritating obstacle to the media tycoons - but they found a way around this utopian unmediated exchange of ideas with time, technological advancement and ideas of their own.

By aggregating and "conglomerating" the internet (see also: the whole of social media), they made it even more effective and efficient for sentiment manipulation than traditional/legacy media. Self-admittedly, their efforts were redoubled after the anomalies of 2016 both here and there (Trump worked out in the end for the traditional aristocratic elites but I think they're in rare disagreement with the nouveau Silicon Valley set there). The Valley lot have the will and plenty of power to, as the Google execs put it, "prevent a repeat of 2016", so it's going to be an interesting year and an interesting conflict between the old and new guards since I don't see the real powermongers throwing their weight against a tamed incumbent.

Anyway, yeah, the legacy media is garbage but so is the Facebook-Google-Twitter axis. It's redundant to name both since they're entwined beyond most people's credulity, and continue to prop each other up in a united front against plebeian wrongthink IRL and plebeian conversation online. Alphabet loves to give money to struggling establishment news businesses for ideological reasons. Ostensibly, it's a dying, loss-making industry in which every major player would already be bankrupt or irreconcilably deep in the red without handouts from the elite, but it's really a loss leader: losing trivial sums for control of all readily available sources of information is actually just good calculus.

In other words there are very few puppeteers but many puppets.

Plain English please. :deledoubt:
 

DTM

LAMBETHIAN YIDDO
You could have saved yourself the time, enjoyed a relaxing breakfast and called him a utter fucking delusional twat, although you'd only be adding your voice to what the rest of us already knew.

Let it not be forgotten that this is the man who took George Galloway's side against the Club

I took George Galloway side against a tirade of unfounded accusations of his being anti Jewish nothing to do with the club and we’ll you know it. Sir Alan, just hours after the Liverpool defeat let himself down miserably with an interview that clearly exonerated Mr.Galloway.. but that’s another thread some time ago.
 
Long winded claptrap!

Anyone who has seen the collapse ( and I saw it on the day), knows absolutely what they are witnessing. Explaining it away first as due to normal office fires, and later in such a pathetically convoluted way as you yourself have just done does not dismiss the blatant obvious.

Never mind the evidence that the first responders set a perimeter in place in preparation for the collapse they knew was about to happen - provable, and never mind the fact that the lease holder confirmed that he called for the building “ to be pulled” and watch the building come down - again provable.

Never mind the evidence indeed - just watch the collapse - it’s not a smoking gun - it’s a fucking confession!

Conspiracy theorist: "My eyes and the internet tells me the truth. Provide evidence, prove me wrong."
Scientist: Provides careful, through explanation of why the conspiracy theory is wrong.
Conspiracy theorist: "Science hides behinds language I can not understands, therefor No evidence has been sumbitted and I am still right."

Recently saw a similar exchange between a flat-earther and a scientist. Guessing mr. Menace believes in a flat earth and that vaccines are bad too.
 

DTM

LAMBETHIAN YIDDO
Conspiracy theorist: "My eyes and the internet tells me the truth. Provide evidence, prove me wrong."
Scientist: Provides careful, through explanation of why the conspiracy theory is wrong.
Conspiracy theorist: "Science hides behinds language I can not understands, therefor No evidence has been sumbitted and I am still right."

Recently saw a similar exchange between a flat-earther and a scientist. Guessing mr. Menace believes in a flat earth and that vaccines are bad too.

Try looking at the evidence for yourself rather than sounding like an idiot!

I’m not about to post link after link in the hope that you get the message...do your own research!
 
Try looking at the evidence for yourself rather than sounding like an idiot!

I’m not about to post link after link in the hope that you get the message...do your own research!

I am not the one sounding like an idiot here. Hoping for the sake of your sanity that you will manage to dig yourself out of that rabbit hole.

One last question: IF you are right (you are not), what good does it do you holding on to your beliefs? Your best case scenario is that you are right and leading experts in structural engineering is wrong or lying, the media are all evil and/or greedy liars, and the government will kill you and anyone else if it suits their agenda, and you will be seen as an oddball for holding on to your crazy beliefs (in the eyes of the vast majority). What good does it do you to disbelieve actual experts and to instead believe in Internet crazy talk?
 
I see no point trying to extricate the media from the government. The media - and, nowadays, the internet pseudo-monopolies, which means all the same people anyway - is the government and vice-versa. If the media conglomerates, of which there are really only four or five at the top level of the hierarchy in the entire English-speaking world, choose to combine their full power, they can guarantee any given sociopolitical outcome -- in exchange, the politico beneficiaries work for the business owners and their friends.

The lines between the historical "estates"/"columns" were blurred a long time ago and then eroded completely. The internet served as an information liberation front for a time - a brief interlude for us, and an extremely irritating obstacle to the media tycoons - but they found a way around this utopian unmediated exchange of ideas with time, technological advancement and ideas of their own.

By aggregating and "conglomerating" the internet (see also: the whole of social media), they made it even more effective and efficient for sentiment manipulation than traditional/legacy media. Self-admittedly, their efforts were redoubled after the anomalies of 2016 both here and there (Trump worked out in the end for the traditional aristocratic elites but I think they're in rare disagreement with the nouveau Silicon Valley set there). The Valley lot have the will and plenty of power to, as the Google execs put it, "prevent a repeat of 2016", so it's going to be an interesting year and an interesting conflict between the old and new guards since I don't see the real powermongers throwing their weight against a tamed incumbent.

Anyway, yeah, the legacy media is garbage but so is the Facebook-Google-Twitter axis. It's redundant to name both since they're entwined beyond most people's credulity, and continue to prop each other up in a united front against plebeian wrongthink IRL and plebeian conversation online. Alphabet loves to give money to struggling establishment news businesses for ideological reasons. Ostensibly, it's a dying, loss-making industry in which every major player would already be bankrupt or irreconcilably deep in the red without handouts from the elite, but it's really a loss leader: losing trivial sums for control of all readily available sources of information is actually just good calculus.

Thanks for your interesting posts.
It would improve the debate and be more interesting if you could post (re-post)? in the Coronavirus thread in "Off Topic" forum.
 

DTM

LAMBETHIAN YIDDO
I am not the one sounding like an idiot here. Hoping for the sake of your sanity that you will manage to dig yourself out of that rabbit hole.

One last question: IF you are right (you are not), what good does it do you holding on to your beliefs? Your best case scenario is that you are right and leading experts in structural engineering is wrong or lying, the media are all evil and/or greedy liars, and the government will kill you and anyone else if it suits their agenda, and you will be seen as an oddball for holding on to your crazy beliefs (in the eyes of the vast majority). What good does it do you to disbelieve actual experts and to instead believe in Internet crazy talk?

Rule number 1. There are no experts on any matter.

Rule number 2. Openness and honesty is the only way to arrive at the truth in any matter.

Summary:

We are deliberately NOT getting the truth but merely a conspiracy theory - a term the self same media and government claim to frown upon!
 
Never-argue-with-an-idiot-they-ll-bring-you-down-t
 

Bazali

🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦

DTM

LAMBETHIAN YIDDO
C-word comment :mourglasses:

Nobody has yet had even an attempt at debate or argument; just long winded NIST cut and paste bull. NIST incidentally openly discredited their own report years ago.... that’s the ultimate punch line imo old chap.
 

1966

Fan of football and the England NT. Club neutral.
5G has caused this, what dya reckon fruitcake?
5G actually does need a lot more (I say "more" but I mean "any") longitudinal human safety research before being rolled out across a whole country (as we're doing for some unfathomable reason). Other countries and individual cities have banned it pending further research, which is what we should be doing. We're acting as guinea pigs with no opt-out on this one. Fuck knows why.
 

DTM

LAMBETHIAN YIDDO
5G actually does need a lot more (I say "more" but I mean "any") longitudinal human safety research before being rolled out across a whole country (as we're doing for some unfathomable reason). Other countries and individual cities have banned it pending further research, which is what we should be doing. We're acting as guinea pigs with no opt-out on this one. Fuck knows why.

Most of us ( not you) clearly are guinea pigs and accepting ones at that - just read the responses - childlike or what!
 

1966

Fan of football and the England NT. Club neutral.
In other words there are very few puppeteers but many puppets.

Plain English please. :deledoubt:
Haha. My bad. I made an assumption based on your fascination with 9/11 that you were well-versed on a lot of adjacent issues. Your tl;dr is not wrong though.

I don't want to drive this thread further into the weeds after complaining about how it had become political instead of football or virology-related -- and then contributing to the problem myself. We're not even tangentially contributing to the OP but feel free to PM me.
 
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