Am i melting or are we seriously in a mini crisis right now? Players look tired, jaded, almost disinterested at times. One win in 5 in the league, including an abysmal performance in the NLD defeat. What's going wrong? Injuries? Fixture congestion? Complacency? The fact we have turned up in the Champions League this season suggests the latter, but i'm struggling to comprehend where the "mighty" Spurs have gone.
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Crisis?
- Thread starter JakeYIDDO
- Start date
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No crisis. Dip in form.
Would absolutely love a bag of crisis and an in-form dip right now.
I think the "book" and timing of it has had an impact. How much who knows but it can't be a coincidence our form has gone to shit since its release.
That and the Rose situation, I don't want to lose Rose the player but I don't think the other players will have been impressed with him and the subsequent comments about not being in the team massive seem like he expected to be in before Davies. Whatever your view on that the players will see Davies as being about the team, reliable and someone who's going to be here in 12 months.
Loch will sort it and we'll soon be back on form.
That and the Rose situation, I don't want to lose Rose the player but I don't think the other players will have been impressed with him and the subsequent comments about not being in the team massive seem like he expected to be in before Davies. Whatever your view on that the players will see Davies as being about the team, reliable and someone who's going to be here in 12 months.
Loch will sort it and we'll soon be back on form.
I don't see how the release of a book can have SUCH an adverse effect on the players... especially as it puts most of them in a good light...
As far as the Rose situation goes, he isn't exactly covering himself in glory right now... and I wouldn't be surprised if Man Utd were having 2nd thoughts... (likewise Erikssen & Barca if the tabloids are to be believed!)
The biggest downer so far has been seeing Kyle Walker apparently being proved right and that forcing a move is a surefire way of romping to the title...
A Man City relegation scrap was never gonna happen... but, like with Sol Cuntball... he coulda waited a season Or two before getting the silverware he DEMANDED he leave us to win!
As far as the Rose situation goes, he isn't exactly covering himself in glory right now... and I wouldn't be surprised if Man Utd were having 2nd thoughts... (likewise Erikssen & Barca if the tabloids are to be believed!)
The biggest downer so far has been seeing Kyle Walker apparently being proved right and that forcing a move is a surefire way of romping to the title...
A Man City relegation scrap was never gonna happen... but, like with Sol Cuntball... he coulda waited a season Or two before getting the silverware he DEMANDED he leave us to win!
Talksport seems to have answers to some questions...
Tottenham Hotspur opinion: Six reasons things are going wrong for Spurs right now
Tottenham Hotspur opinion: Six reasons things are going wrong for Spurs right now
You could argue
You could argue that we were without Kane for a lot of that. I think the expectations are just different now. The lads are gutted if they lose and this is impacting on the approach to games. In a word it's the pressure.
I had to go back and verify that this was correct because I just didn't remember this bad of a run last year. I knew we had a couple of rough patches, but let's put things in perspective before we start talking about a crisis.
One win in 10 games and 7 points from 18 available in the PL.
You could argue that we were without Kane for a lot of that. I think the expectations are just different now. The lads are gutted if they lose and this is impacting on the approach to games. In a word it's the pressure.
Sure, and I think that the point is that each time we have a dip in form you can attribute it to one reason or another at that period in time. I think that it could be pressure but I also think that some of the underperforming players at the moment are going through a little exhaustion possibly.
Like the players our expectations have been raised and dealing with it can be difficult at times. The important thing is to not lose perspective and take each game as they come when you're in a slump.
I really don't think it's the book.
October 15th: Book is released (according to wikipedia)
October 17th: D-Real Madrid 1, Spurs 1
October 22: W-Spurs 4, Liverpool 1
October 28th: L-Man United 1, Spurs 0
November 1st: W-Spurs 3, Madrid 1
----Alderweireld injured during the Madrid game---
November 5th: W-Spurs 1, Crystal Palace 0
November 18th: L-Woolwich 2, Spurs 0
November 21st: W-Dortmund 1, Spurs 2
November 25th: D-Spurs 1, West Brom 1
November 28th: L-Leicester 2, Spurs 1
Behave ffs
We already have one of these the sky is falling threads. Don't need another. Fuck off with the crisis talk, it's a run of less than stellar results - the bulk of which are down to some bounces that just haven't gone our way. It happens to just about every team every season. Titles are typically won by whoever can get back on their bike fastest.
The only game all season where we were outplayed was at the Goons .... if you look at the numbers we've been the best side or at least competitive in every other game .... FFs look at the Leicester game .... two 'season's best' goals from them and about a dozen horrible feckin' misses from us ....
1 point from 9 is a terrible run and with top sides unlikely to drop more than 25 points all season dropping 8 in 10 days is poor .... but it's no crisis ...
Win the CL and none of us will give a feck ... and as long as we're still in it that remains possible ....
1 point from 9 is a terrible run and with top sides unlikely to drop more than 25 points all season dropping 8 in 10 days is poor .... but it's no crisis ...
Win the CL and none of us will give a feck ... and as long as we're still in it that remains possible ....
I think the state the world is in At the moment... the word 'crisis' (even a 'mini' one) is wholly innapropriate...
But it merely shows the great strides we've taken since the dark days of two decades ago...
JakeYIDDO
, I see you were born in the middle of the shitstorm that was the mid-'90s (yeah, I checked, in case you were a middle-aged Bandwagon jumper who only started taking an interest in Spurs in 2010+) ... but it seems you were too young to remember that the '90s for us weren't just a 4 game blip... from around '93-'98 they were pretty much a disaster and time of great famine!
Losing to ARSEANAL was the bi-annual NORM, not a once in 6 games rare occurrence... finishing anywhere NEAR 7th would prompt an open top bus parade!
...Gerry Francis, Christian Gross, George Graham... Paulo Tramnezanni... Gary Doherty, Andy Sinton, Andy Gray (notvthat one, the other one) Ruel Fox, Andy Booth... I'll let some of those names sink in before Danny Rose has to Google them!
Yes, we're in a rut... but sometimes, getting OUT of that rut together can be the making of a team, and something that defines their togetherness...
We sit it out, we ride the storm, and, as Maximus once said;
"At my signal, unleash hell!"
But it merely shows the great strides we've taken since the dark days of two decades ago...
JakeYIDDO
, I see you were born in the middle of the shitstorm that was the mid-'90s (yeah, I checked, in case you were a middle-aged Bandwagon jumper who only started taking an interest in Spurs in 2010+) ... but it seems you were too young to remember that the '90s for us weren't just a 4 game blip... from around '93-'98 they were pretty much a disaster and time of great famine!Losing to ARSEANAL was the bi-annual NORM, not a once in 6 games rare occurrence... finishing anywhere NEAR 7th would prompt an open top bus parade!
...Gerry Francis, Christian Gross, George Graham... Paulo Tramnezanni... Gary Doherty, Andy Sinton, Andy Gray (notvthat one, the other one) Ruel Fox, Andy Booth... I'll let some of those names sink in before Danny Rose has to Google them!
Yes, we're in a rut... but sometimes, getting OUT of that rut together can be the making of a team, and something that defines their togetherness...
We sit it out, we ride the storm, and, as Maximus once said;
"At my signal, unleash hell!"
Wanyama has been a big miss I think, he made such a difference last year. Him and Toby make us a different beast.
I think Son is underused and I think using him and Lamela giving more energy up top, more frequently, will help. I probably would've started Llorente a bit more (with Kane) would've made him settle better.
Our full backs being so competitive with each other is great on the one hand, but also causes a bit of an issue. He's reluctant to leave out the expensive Aurier and Rose, who are both (supposedly in Aurier's case) arguably a level above the other two, when actually Trippier and Davies are 1000% committed, and don't often deserve to be dropped. Almost rather just have one first choice right back, and when he's tired, in lesser games, play KWP. If that makes sense.
I think Son is underused and I think using him and Lamela giving more energy up top, more frequently, will help. I probably would've started Llorente a bit more (with Kane) would've made him settle better.
Our full backs being so competitive with each other is great on the one hand, but also causes a bit of an issue. He's reluctant to leave out the expensive Aurier and Rose, who are both (supposedly in Aurier's case) arguably a level above the other two, when actually Trippier and Davies are 1000% committed, and don't often deserve to be dropped. Almost rather just have one first choice right back, and when he's tired, in lesser games, play KWP. If that makes sense.
In addition, maybe blooding Foyth a bit more on the right side of the back three may have made sense, if we/Dier himself don't feel he's a CB option (except emergency cover) anymore. We haven't signed Foyth purely as a prospect, he's on the bench every week, not in the academy.
I think we were without Toby for that period of games too. I would argue that Toby is proving to be more of a loss to the side going on the drop in form without him over the past two seasons. Son was firing on all fronts when Kane was missing, he picked up player of the month I believe.
It's not a bonafide crisis yet but lose to Watford and we're almost out of the Top 4 race entirely.
It doesn't help that all of our rivals are all winning and in good form so now we're playing catch-up.
We need to go big in Jan, however hard it is to bring in quality during that month.
Replacement for Rose, Barkley and another striker are needed. Possibly another CB as well depending on how long Toby is out for.
Lamela's return is a huge bonus and almost like a new signing.
It doesn't help that all of our rivals are all winning and in good form so now we're playing catch-up.
We need to go big in Jan, however hard it is to bring in quality during that month.
Replacement for Rose, Barkley and another striker are needed. Possibly another CB as well depending on how long Toby is out for.
Lamela's return is a huge bonus and almost like a new signing.
Only really signed up to lurk but these debates are interesting. My two pence worth.
We aren't the same team as last year. We have more depth and we also have more injuries. We have players like Lamela and Rose who are coming back after a great deal of time absent. They cannot and will not perform to the level they were at before injury until that have truly got back into the swing of things, and that's especially true if both also have mental issues for differing reasons (Rsoe with regards to a move and Lamela needing to "feel" right enough to play). We have no Wanyama or Alderweireld, two absolutely key players. We have new players who are trying to bed in. People assume that because Sanchez has hit the ground running that means players like Aurier and Llorente must be shit. It took Lamela three seasons to improve, Sissoko one season to start to improve (and he's still not there yet in my opinion). The new players can't be judged this quickly. We have a Dembele who just can't compete anymore at the same level as he did a few years ago and we have players like Dele and Son who are not displaying the same form as last year, even if they are still contributing.
We had, what? Three more points this time last season? Hardly a crisis. The only real difference is that our poor results mostly came in Europe last year so people just treated the Champion's League as a write off and focused on the league. That is perhaps the way it should be this year as repeated Champion's League qualification should really be the propriety over going all out to win it. This is because right now it is financially beneficial to us with the new stadium coming. I think it would be a much poorer season if we have a decent run in the Champion's League but end up with no trophies and no top four finish than what we have had for the past two years. We also have the added problem of Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea and even the scum it seems in better form as the chasing pack. Competition for top four is harder this year because more points are going to be allocated to the top six sides and not spread around the table as in the past two years. The risk that we will drop out of the top four at stages this season is greater.
The Wembley "hoodoo" is a myth. It is true that Wembley is not like WHL. It will never match up ...and we are essentially playing all our games away this year. But the truth is that our form home and away doesn't reflect Wembley as a problem. We've played poorly and had turgid games both home and away and we've had good results and good performances home and away. The problem lies elsewhere in my opinion.
This brings me to the true issue I think we have. Mentality. Part of this is arrogance, and it is the arrogance of us the fans and also Poch and the players. I'll deal with each in turn.
We as fans have been getting ahead of ourselves for ages now. Over the summer I was listening to fans who would talk as if they expected the league to be won by us this year or next. That we can do it if, variously, we have all our players fit or we sign mega players or rotate effectively whatever else. Our success over the past two years has bread an unhealthy expectation in many fans, whether they are willing to admit it or not. We have had it the best we've had it in decades and a slip behind, especially in two indisputable transitional seasons (because of the stadiums), was always a possibility. Every team has one sooner or later. But now the fans have gotten carried away from themselves and are talking crisis. They are looking to blame everyone from the manager to the players to Levy There must be blame somewhere!
Do you know after the league cup exit to Spam one guy said to me as I was leaving the game that the result didn't matter because it was a meaningless trophy and we were concentrating on winning the league and CL. What? I don't see our trophy cabinet stuffed with league cups won over the PL era so it can't be that meaningless if we have struggled to win it more than twice! Do these kinds of fans realise how damned hard it is to win the league and/or the Champion's League?? That sort of expectation and assumption of "our level" is the sort of talk that comes from fans of the scum, Man U and Liverpool, not us. It really took the biscuit when the home crowd booed the players off after the West Brom result. I felt embarrassed.
That brings me on to Poch. I love the man and I don't think his book did us any harm as the Twitterati are claiming. The timing stank and makes us look silly and small time. Celebrating the great Poch era like he's the new Fergie era was shortsighted when the man has yet to earn us a trophy. But that's as far as it goes. It don't think it has impacted our results at all.
But Poch, as great as he is, is not beyond criticism. In my opinion the real criticism should be reserved for Poch's repeated comments that suggested we were big time and that the PL and CL were our level and the cups were an added luxury but ultimately a bit too small time for us. Well, now that we're sitting in 7th I don't think that kind of arrogance looks so smart. We are unlikely to win the Champion's League this year and we certainly aren't winning the Premier League. We now have to compete for top four, and between getting top four and the league cup and just getting top four I know which I'd prefer. If we don't make top four and don't win the CL Poch is going to look at even bigger wally for that sort of attitude and his comments will come back to haunt him. The reason why I think this was such a mistake is that these sorts of remarks have helped fuel the fan arrogance I talked about above. It has, crucially, also impacted the players. The only games we have lost or drawn where the other side was better on the day have been probably the Scum and Leicester to a lesser degree. I am sure there will be debates over just how good or bad we were against Chelsea and Man United. But the problem is in the games we should have either won or competed the whole game. There is a repeated theme. Burnley, West Brom, Spam, Palace, the Scum away, Leicester first half, Swansea. These are all games where we strolled around as if they were an effort. As if we were took good for them. The big THFC, kings of Europe. In most of these games we've dominated possession, had chances but lack cutting edge and it's always because the players just lack that bit of extra effort that they were putting in last year and are still putting in during European games. I don't buy the idea of a Champion's League hangover as our bad performances don't much conform to that. There is only one explanation. Mentality. The arrogance has gotten to the players.
So while I don't think we are in crisis AT ALL I do think we are at a crossroads and now is a massive test for both the players and also Poch (as a still relatively inexperienced manager). Now is the time for them to show they have the mental strength and character to fight back from a true dip and get back to winning ways. I personally think they have it in them. But I think they need our backing as fans and for us as fans to have reasonable expectations.
All this talk of the wheels coming off and the side breaking up is overreaction I think. We just need to get behind the players and manager and try and get them past this apparent brain fog.
Just my thoughts.
We aren't the same team as last year. We have more depth and we also have more injuries. We have players like Lamela and Rose who are coming back after a great deal of time absent. They cannot and will not perform to the level they were at before injury until that have truly got back into the swing of things, and that's especially true if both also have mental issues for differing reasons (Rsoe with regards to a move and Lamela needing to "feel" right enough to play). We have no Wanyama or Alderweireld, two absolutely key players. We have new players who are trying to bed in. People assume that because Sanchez has hit the ground running that means players like Aurier and Llorente must be shit. It took Lamela three seasons to improve, Sissoko one season to start to improve (and he's still not there yet in my opinion). The new players can't be judged this quickly. We have a Dembele who just can't compete anymore at the same level as he did a few years ago and we have players like Dele and Son who are not displaying the same form as last year, even if they are still contributing.
We had, what? Three more points this time last season? Hardly a crisis. The only real difference is that our poor results mostly came in Europe last year so people just treated the Champion's League as a write off and focused on the league. That is perhaps the way it should be this year as repeated Champion's League qualification should really be the propriety over going all out to win it. This is because right now it is financially beneficial to us with the new stadium coming. I think it would be a much poorer season if we have a decent run in the Champion's League but end up with no trophies and no top four finish than what we have had for the past two years. We also have the added problem of Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea and even the scum it seems in better form as the chasing pack. Competition for top four is harder this year because more points are going to be allocated to the top six sides and not spread around the table as in the past two years. The risk that we will drop out of the top four at stages this season is greater.
The Wembley "hoodoo" is a myth. It is true that Wembley is not like WHL. It will never match up ...and we are essentially playing all our games away this year. But the truth is that our form home and away doesn't reflect Wembley as a problem. We've played poorly and had turgid games both home and away and we've had good results and good performances home and away. The problem lies elsewhere in my opinion.
This brings me to the true issue I think we have. Mentality. Part of this is arrogance, and it is the arrogance of us the fans and also Poch and the players. I'll deal with each in turn.
We as fans have been getting ahead of ourselves for ages now. Over the summer I was listening to fans who would talk as if they expected the league to be won by us this year or next. That we can do it if, variously, we have all our players fit or we sign mega players or rotate effectively whatever else. Our success over the past two years has bread an unhealthy expectation in many fans, whether they are willing to admit it or not. We have had it the best we've had it in decades and a slip behind, especially in two indisputable transitional seasons (because of the stadiums), was always a possibility. Every team has one sooner or later. But now the fans have gotten carried away from themselves and are talking crisis. They are looking to blame everyone from the manager to the players to Levy There must be blame somewhere!
Do you know after the league cup exit to Spam one guy said to me as I was leaving the game that the result didn't matter because it was a meaningless trophy and we were concentrating on winning the league and CL. What? I don't see our trophy cabinet stuffed with league cups won over the PL era so it can't be that meaningless if we have struggled to win it more than twice! Do these kinds of fans realise how damned hard it is to win the league and/or the Champion's League?? That sort of expectation and assumption of "our level" is the sort of talk that comes from fans of the scum, Man U and Liverpool, not us. It really took the biscuit when the home crowd booed the players off after the West Brom result. I felt embarrassed.
That brings me on to Poch. I love the man and I don't think his book did us any harm as the Twitterati are claiming. The timing stank and makes us look silly and small time. Celebrating the great Poch era like he's the new Fergie era was shortsighted when the man has yet to earn us a trophy. But that's as far as it goes. It don't think it has impacted our results at all.
But Poch, as great as he is, is not beyond criticism. In my opinion the real criticism should be reserved for Poch's repeated comments that suggested we were big time and that the PL and CL were our level and the cups were an added luxury but ultimately a bit too small time for us. Well, now that we're sitting in 7th I don't think that kind of arrogance looks so smart. We are unlikely to win the Champion's League this year and we certainly aren't winning the Premier League. We now have to compete for top four, and between getting top four and the league cup and just getting top four I know which I'd prefer. If we don't make top four and don't win the CL Poch is going to look at even bigger wally for that sort of attitude and his comments will come back to haunt him. The reason why I think this was such a mistake is that these sorts of remarks have helped fuel the fan arrogance I talked about above. It has, crucially, also impacted the players. The only games we have lost or drawn where the other side was better on the day have been probably the Scum and Leicester to a lesser degree. I am sure there will be debates over just how good or bad we were against Chelsea and Man United. But the problem is in the games we should have either won or competed the whole game. There is a repeated theme. Burnley, West Brom, Spam, Palace, the Scum away, Leicester first half, Swansea. These are all games where we strolled around as if they were an effort. As if we were took good for them. The big THFC, kings of Europe. In most of these games we've dominated possession, had chances but lack cutting edge and it's always because the players just lack that bit of extra effort that they were putting in last year and are still putting in during European games. I don't buy the idea of a Champion's League hangover as our bad performances don't much conform to that. There is only one explanation. Mentality. The arrogance has gotten to the players.
So while I don't think we are in crisis AT ALL I do think we are at a crossroads and now is a massive test for both the players and also Poch (as a still relatively inexperienced manager). Now is the time for them to show they have the mental strength and character to fight back from a true dip and get back to winning ways. I personally think they have it in them. But I think they need our backing as fans and for us as fans to have reasonable expectations.
All this talk of the wheels coming off and the side breaking up is overreaction I think. We just need to get behind the players and manager and try and get them past this apparent brain fog.
Just my thoughts.