Dele

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We have had three of some of the best games of the last two years and Dele wasn't involved in any of them.
This is because Dele simply doesn’t fit on a technical and tactical level anymore. The squad has evolved in a certain direction and he’s the odd man out. This is the brutal, harsh, truth. The character slander stuff is just so it’s easier accepted when he moves on. A tactic as old as time.

I do find it funny that Rose and Dele were painted in a particularly bad light by the documentary, Aurier (despite his long list of issues) was painted in a good one, and N’Dombele (Support from Levy) and Lo Celso were also shown in a positive manner. The club PR machine is on overdrive.
 
How can you say that?

I really hope he comes through this but he’s been disappointing for some time now

Maybe expectations were too high?
I'd argue all day long that the vast majority of people who watch football (especially those watching on TV) follow the ball, they miss the runs off the ball and miss the pressing (those watching on TV, which is all of us now have little choice to follow the ball because the TV cameras predominantly do this).

I also add that people see only what they want to see, a form of confirmation bias, you only have to look in the Aurier, Dier thread to have that laid out bare. What's interesting is now that we've brought in Doherty, who almost to a man fans said was better then Aurier, are now seeing what Aurier dose by comparison and the narrative is shifting slightly. To save face the narrative is he's improved because of Doherty giving him "competition". LOL.
 
I'd argue all day long that the vast majority of people who watch football (especially those watching on TV) follow the ball, they miss the runs off the ball and miss the pressing (those watching on TV, which is all of us now have little choice to follow the ball because the TV cameras predominantly do this).
100%. I think its even more true of Dele. Some games he makes a run, gets on to a good cross he may score 1 or 2 goals and everyone loves him. On another day he makes run after run, no cross comes in, he shows his frustration and many think he is useless or not trying.
 
I'd argue all day long that the vast majority of people who watch football (especially those watching on TV) follow the ball, they miss the runs off the ball and miss the pressing (those watching on TV, which is all of us now have little choice to follow the ball because the TV cameras predominantly do this).

I also add that people see only what they want to see, a form of confirmation bias, you only have to look in the Aurier, Dier thread to have that laid out bare. What's interesting is now that we've brought in Doherty, who almost to a man fans said was better then Aurier, are now seeing what Aurier dose by comparison and the narrative is shifting slightly. To save face the narrative is he's improved because of Doherty giving him "competition". LOL.

The thing is I want to see him do well but he looks like he’s going through the motions to me

I don’t thinkAurier’s capable of improving tbh but Doherty’s not pulled any trees up yet but doing ok
 
I'd argue all day long that the vast majority of people who watch football (especially those watching on TV) follow the ball, they miss the runs off the ball and miss the pressing (those watching on TV, which is all of us now have little choice to follow the ball because the TV cameras predominantly do this).
Funny though I would argue that even if I saw those mythical runs and pressing all 90 minutes of the game I would still want him gone and any player like him. I wanted CE gone as well (or a real MFer recruited on top of him) seasons before it became fashionable. No player in modern football that cannot create their own time and space is irreplaceable. Can't carry a player like this. Could pull 25 players from Ligue 1 to make those runs and press, faster, more powerfully, and would probably be more usefull elsewhere. The problem is what about the other stuff Guido? What about the actual footbally things? It's clear he's on the market and folks aren't knocking down our door to get him. There is a reason for that and like the constraints of the TV screen vs live you are not able to see it...but when you do...

Simple question Guido, has Dele demonstrably improved as a player in the 5 seasons he's been here?
 
Funny though I would argue that even if I saw those mythical runs and pressing all 90 minutes of the game I would still want him gone and any player like him. I wanted CE gone as well (or a real MFer recruited on top of him) seasons before it became fashionable. No player in modern football that cannot create their own time and space is irreplaceable. Can't carry a player like this. Could pull 25 players from Ligue 1 to make those runs and press, faster, more powerfully, and would probably be more usefull elsewhere. The problem is what about the other stuff Guido? What about the actual footbally things? It's clear he's on the market and folks aren't knocking down our door to get him. There is a reason for that and like the constraints of the TV screen vs live you are not able to see it...but when you do...

Simple question Guido, has Dele demonstrably improved as a player in the 5 seasons he's been here?
Answer to the question is YES he's 100% improved. He's had to adapt his game to cover a deeper position, a position that me a fan of Dele has no problem in saying he's NOT very good at (hard to quantify what the cause of that is i.e why is someone better at CF than CM??) but specifically what makes him poor in a deeper position is his ability off the ball, that of effectively holding up the oppo. I feel is also magnified in a team that plays deep and looks to transition as he lacks the pace to a) carry the ball in that transition and b) support the counter without the ball.

BUT, he's a now a much more versatile player. I am also having to make a jump of faith here which you will no doubt not accept and I will not fight you too hard on it because we do need to see him play higher up the pitch more frequently than he is to actually see this play out in full, but when Jose first arrived I'd argue that he was far more effective in an advanced position than he was in his first 2/3 yrs for us (the numbers certainly backed this up). I put this down to him improving, having played a deeper role he now should have a greater appreciation for how to find those pockets. It's also worth bearing in mind that in Jose's first weeks at the Club were also still absolutely shit and the quality and quantity of opportunities we were creating for our attacking players was shite.

In the same theme, lets go back to the first 2 seasons where the best word to describe him was prolific. But just like Kane at the time we were creating so many chances per game that both of them could still miss absolute sitters (AND THEY DID, LOADS) and still chalk up PL leading numbers. Both Kane and Dele have improved in the sense that they don't need as many chances as they did back then (again, you will have to cut me some latitude here because he needs to play in an advanced position more to see this play out).

I honestly don't think it's clear that he's on his way out the club. He could be absolutely on his way out but people were saying that about Ndombele just a week ago! Jose is doing what he's always done with so many creative players in his teams, usually involving the most talented one too. I am not going to pretend that I have any clue what is going on, I don't. But I can apply some logic around the media hyperbole and that is Dele needs to be stimulated/challenged, Poch is on record as saying this and I'm more inclined to use this as a possible explanation for what is currently going on.

The smartest kinds in the classroom underperform and become disinterested if they are not challenged but with a footballer, you can't just move them up a class, so there has to be some creativity to create an environment that provides a challenge. My GUESS is this is what we are seeing.

Lastly, he makes a ton of runs, I urge you to rewatch his last game, he was everywhere. Pressing: Kane used to be the trigger to press early on with Poch, and backed up well by all the AM's (inc Dele) but it was clear after a couple of years that Kane was looking distinctly "leggy" in many games, during this time Dele took up the trigger to press, he was also performing this from midfield and not as a 2nd striker position.

We are attempting to press under Jose, it's been a shitshow attempt as it's been individualistic, lacking in co-ordination (Newcastle was good, 2nd half vs Chavs was better) but again just watch Dele compared to ALL of our forwards and by far and away it's been him that's pressing with more intensity and with angles on his target.
 
Biggest problem for Dele as a CM is he's too slow on the ball. He's fine defensively actually, you just need your CMs to be better at taking the ball and pushing it up the pitch quickly. Dele takes forever on the ball.
 
Answer to the question is YES he's 100% improved. He's had to adapt his game to cover a deeper position, a position that me a fan of Dele has no problem in saying he's NOT very good at (hard to quantify what the cause of that is i.e why is someone better at CF than CM??) but specifically what makes him poor in a deeper position is his ability off the ball, that of effectively holding up the oppo. I feel is also magnified in a team that plays deep and looks to transition as he lacks the pace to a) carry the ball in that transition and b) support the counter without the ball.

BUT, he's a now a much more versatile player. I am also having to make a jump of faith here which you will no doubt not accept and I will not fight you too hard on it because we do need to see him play higher up the pitch more frequently than he is to actually see this play out in full, but when Jose first arrived I'd argue that he was far more effective in an advanced position than he was in his first 2/3 yrs for us (the numbers certainly backed this up). I put this down to him improving, having played a deeper role he now should have a greater appreciation for how to find those pockets. It's also worth bearing in mind that in Jose's first weeks at the Club were also still absolutely shit and the quality and quantity of opportunities we were creating for our attacking players was shite.

In the same theme, lets go back to the first 2 seasons where the best word to describe him was prolific. But just like Kane at the time we were creating so many chances per game that both of them could still miss absolute sitters (AND THEY DID, LOADS) and still chalk up PL leading numbers. Both Kane and Dele have improved in the sense that they don't need as many chances as they did back then (again, you will have to cut me some latitude here because he needs to play in an advanced position more to see this play out).

I honestly don't think it's clear that he's on his way out the club. He could be absolutely on his way out but people were saying that about Ndombele just a week ago! Jose is doing what he's always done with so many creative players in his teams, usually involving the most talented one too. I am not going to pretend that I have any clue what is going on, I don't. But I can apply some logic around the media hyperbole and that is Dele needs to be stimulated/challenged, Poch is on record as saying this and I'm more inclined to use this as a possible explanation for what is currently going on.

The smartest kinds in the classroom underperform and become disinterested if they are not challenged but with a footballer, you can't just move them up a class, so there has to be some creativity to create an environment that provides a challenge. My GUESS is this is what we are seeing.

Lastly, he makes a ton of runs, I urge you to rewatch his last game, he was everywhere. Pressing: Kane used to be the trigger to press early on with Poch, and backed up well by all the AM's (inc Dele) but it was clear after a couple of years that Kane was looking distinctly "leggy" in many games, during this time Dele took up the trigger to press, he was also performing this from midfield and not as a 2nd striker position.

We are attempting to press under Jose, it's been a shitshow attempt as it's been individualistic, lacking in co-ordination (Newcastle was good, 2nd half vs Chavs was better) but again just watch Dele compared to ALL of our forwards and by far and away it's been him that's pressing with more intensity and with angles on his target.
Guido, I appreciate your defense of this player but any good player playing well and aiding a team's cause does not need such an apology. At some point, sometime it would dawn on the majority of 'haters' that the player was of worth. It hasn't for Dele. It hasn't for teams around Europe either.

People wondered what Modric did because he didn't score but Mou had to have him. RM fans rated him shit the first year but everyone of them to a person wouldn't trade his 2nd year to now. Why is that? Because Modric is a good footballer who contributes and doesn't harm his teams efforts.

Dele is an awful footballer, a god-awful footballer with no real footballing ability in the main and that is why opinion is only going one way, consistently. And that is also why he cannot adapt to any other position. His work off the ball was horrid when played deeper but his work on the ball wasn't much better. Last fall was a dead cat bounce that was solely due to, and you'll remember this term, confirmation bias and folks reacting to the shiny objects again.

If you want a player to run around a bit why don't we go out and get an actual athlete that can run with pace and power but that still wouldn't be justification for keeping that player when a footballer could be used in their place. Dele's best chance for a continued career is to drop down a level and hope a team will give him a free role or reinvent himself as a player and compete for an actual position. But he's had 5 seasons to do this and it's not easy developing actual footballing ability.
 
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